How do we know that the earth is a rotating globe ?

[Apple Sky]

We can imagine a bambilion of speculations, for example showing a mobile phone or a car to somebody from 1000 BC or to somebody from the medieval times. That could actually be dangerous.

This reminds me of a time travel movie I watched called 'Black Easter'.

 

[Apple Sky]

Egyptian pharaohs had entire kingdoms with tens of thousands of slaves. Haven't you read the Bible about how Solomon constructed his own giant temple?

Yes but the temple of Solomon is nothing like the Pyramids.

 

[Job 33:6]

Yes but the temple of Solomon is nothing like the Pyramids.

Actually it's a lot like the pyramids.

Yes, the pyramids are larger. But Egyptian kings also had centuries of time and a lot more slaves.

But the point is that, they had methods of moving large stones, and they used thousands of slaves to do it.

And the Bible tells us this:
1 King 5:13-18 NRSVUE
[13] King Solomon conscripted forced labor out of all Israel; the levy numbered thirty thousand men. [14] He sent them to the Lebanon, ten thousand a month in shifts; they would be a month in the Lebanon and two months at home; Adoniram was in charge of the forced labor. [15] Solomon also had seventy thousand laborers and eighty thousand stonecutters in the hill country, [16] besides Solomon’s three thousand three hundred supervisors who were over the work, having charge of the people who did the work. [17] At the king’s command, they quarried out great, costly stones in order to lay the foundation of the house with dressed stones. [18] So Solomon’s builders and Hiram’s builders and the Gebalites did the stonecutting and prepared the timber and the stone to build the house.

This is how people built large stone structures in the ancient near east, and we don't have to go far, as the process is described right here in our Bible.

 

[RamiC]

This is OK but what about the pyramid stones who moved them ?

At 30 tons and with the altar stone

We can imagine a bambilion of speculations, for example showing a mobile phone or a car to somebody from 1000 BC or to somebody from the medieval times. That could actually be dangerous.

We have Hydogen Bombs, in the hands of human beings...life is already dangerous.

 

[RamiC]

This isn't rocket science.

I suggested that they rolled the stones on logs, pulled by horses maybe when I first heard that we don't know how they moved the stones. That was on an English Heritage tour at the site However I am told all the time it cannot explain the distances involved.

Nevertheless I am not open to the sciencist/atheism history of the human mind, which says if you show a "caveman" a radio, he would assume it was magic, because I do not believe we can read the minds of the people in the past. We do not know that they would think anything was magic, and when I see things I cannot make sense of, I do not assume it is magic, or God, I either ask if anyone else gets it, or I just accept that I do not know.

If you want the churches to be filling up with people, instead of leaching them, I repeat my basic point about how supporting belief in the preposterous claims of the Bible might serve the purpose better than emptying the church of any actual faith...

 

[Job 33:6]

I suggested that they rolled the stones on logs, pulled by horses maybe when I first heard that we don't know how they moved the stones. That was on an English Heritage tour at the site However I am told all the time it cannot explain the distances involved.

Nevertheless I am not open to the sciencist/atheism history of the human mind, which says if you show a "caveman" a radio, he would assume it was magic, because I do not believe we can read the minds of the people in the past. We do not know that they would think anything was magic, and when I see things I cannot make sense of, I do not assume it is magic, or God, I either ask if anyone else gets it, or I just accept that I do not know.

If you want the churches to be filling up with people, instead of leaching them, I repeat my basic point about how supporting belief in the preposterous claims of the Bible might serve the purpose better than emptying the church of any actual faith...

I think the bottom line is that, stone henge isn't particularly complex. It literally is a bunch of stones put into the shape of a circle. And people back then had a variety of ways to move rocks around, just as we do today.

1 King 5:13-18 NRSVUE
[13] King Solomon conscripted forced labor out of all Israel; the levy numbered thirty thousand men. [14] He sent them to the Lebanon, ten thousand a month in shifts; they would be a month in the Lebanon and two months at home; Adoniram was in charge of the forced labor. [15] Solomon also had seventy thousand laborers and eighty thousand stonecutters in the hill country, [16] besides Solomon’s three thousand three hundred supervisors who were over the work, having charge of the people who did the work. [17] At the king’s command, they quarried out great, costly stones in order to lay the foundation of the house with dressed stones. [18] So Solomon’s builders and Hiram’s builders and the Gebalites did the stonecutting and prepared the timber and the stone to build the house.

And this is just how people made things back then. It's right there in the Bible.

Nobody is calling ancient people stupid or anything. But their methods of moving rocks around on logs is certainly sufficient to put some rocks in a circle at stone henge. And those methods aren't particularly complicated in comparison to things like space stations, satellites and rocketships of today.

 

[RamiC]

The miracles of technology around you are very real, though.

They are technology, not miracles.

 

[Job 33:6]

Yes but the temple of Solomon is nothing like the Pyramids.

Also apple, so you know, Egyptians also had very large wooden ships that they used to transport large stones down the nile.

Khufu ship - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

https://www.q-files.com/history/ancient-egypt/pyramids-how-they-were-built/print

Boats are present around ancient Egyptian quarries, so it's established that they were used in transporting large stones. Stone cutters would shape them, they'd roll them onto barges, and would use the barge to carry those stones to their construction site.

Stone henge was over land but was much smaller. Egyptians had boats to ship stones along the Nile. Thats why the pyramids are right next to the Nile, just beyond its floodplain.

So it's not even as though the Egyptians had to physically move the stones very far. The boats would cover most distances.

 

[Apple Sky]

Stone henge was over land but was much smaller. Egyptians had boats to ship stones along the Nile. Thats why the pyramids are right next to the Nile, just beyond its floodplain.

Don't forget we also have Pyramids in Peru.

 

[Job 33:6]

Don't forget we also have Pyramids in Peru.

Sure. There are pyramids in many places. But at the end of the day, much like the Bible describes, they were built with human hands. Shaping the rocks, quarrying. Putting the rocks on boats or skids to slide and to roll them.

Stone henge, as an example, is an ancient site of wonder. But to be fair, technologically, it is realistically just a bunch of rocks stacked on top of one another. These structures, though incredible in their own way, did not require any advanced technology beyond basic boat building or knot tying with ropes.

Well, and of course tens of thousands of slaves.

 

[RamiC]

These structures, though incredible in their own way, did not require any advanced technology beyond basic boat building or

But in 6000 years time our technology will be ancient history, and people will be talking about how we didn't know that the universe was really 60,000 years old, or will that be 40 billion years old, or 7 million. Until we get an advance on these really basic designs

we just would not know. Perhaps we have had our minds affected by the surrounding cultures. In 6000 years time they will have all noticed how subjective our perspective was.

 

[Job 33:6]

But in 6000 years time our technology will be ancient history, and people will be talking about how we didn't know that the universe was really 60,000 years old, or will that be 40 billion years old, or 7 million. Until we get an advance on these really basic designs

View attachment 360188
we just would not know. Perhaps we have had our minds affected by the surrounding cultures. In 6000 years time they will have all noticed how subjective our perspective was.

And there's nothing wrong with that. It's not really an argument that understanding of the cosmos should be stuck in time. People used to think that the Earth was flat and that the solar system was geocentric, and just because things change over time, that doesn't mean that we should argue against things like heliocentrism or a spherical Earth or the ancient age of the Earth.

And that goes back to the point that, nobody is calling the ancient Egyptians stupid, but there are things that they just weren't aware of, that hadn't been discovered in their time. They worked with the tools that were available to them at that time.

 

[Job 33:6]

But in 6000 years time our technology will be ancient history, and people will be talking about how we didn't know that the universe was really 60,000 years old, or will that be 40 billion years old, or 7 million. Until we get an advance on these really basic designs

View attachment 360188
we just would not know. Perhaps we have had our minds affected by the surrounding cultures. In 6000 years time they will have all noticed how subjective our perspective was.

No one in Galileo's time, for example, would have made the argument that science would discover multiple galaxies, therefore, everyone should reject heliocentrism because things would keep changing over time.

Maybe one day we will discover things like multiple universes, but that shouldn't stop us from embracing discovery as it occurs.

And that includes things like, Earth being billions of years old which was identified by James Hutton the 1700s. There has been more precision since the 1900s with radiometric dating, but nobody should confuse an ancient Earth with something recent, this understanding has been consensus among geologists for at least a couple centuries now.

Especially when the Bible doesn't indicate one way or the other what the age of the Earth is. It's not even as though there is a Biblical position on the topic.

 

[RamiC]

And there's nothing wrong with that.

No there is not.

It's not really an argument that understanding of the cosmos should be stuck in time.

Not really an argument for what?

People used to think that the Earth was flat

I do not believe that many people ever did.

and that the solar system was geocentric, and just because things change over time, that doesn't mean that we should argue against things like heliocentrism or a spherical Earth or the ancient age of the Earth.

I am arguing that science doesn't work as a test with which we can check to find out if the Bible is true, Moses was one of the brainiest people who ever lived, and that Einstein's math's is worth a look actually.

And that goes back to the point that, nobody is calling the ancient Egyptians stupid, but there are things that they just weren't aware of, that hadn't been discovered in their time. They worked with the tools that were available to them at that time.

What you are missing is still how there is all these tools that are not available in our time. In 10,000 years time when they are analysing the two remaining parts of the International Space Station this will be obvious, to them.

God will still have so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3-16 NIV and without him nothing was made that has been made. John 1-3 This includes your computer, the International Space Station, Stonehenge, the Pyramids and that donkey who carried your Saviour to Bethlehem for His birth.

 

[Job 33:6]

No there is not.


Not really an argument for what?


I do not believe that many people ever did.


I am arguing that science doesn't work as a test with which we can check to find out if the Bible is true, Moses was one of the brainiest people who ever lived, and that Einstein's math's is worth a look actually.

What you are missing is still how there is all these tools that are not available in our time. In 10,000 years time when they are analysing the two remaining parts of the International Space Station this will be obvious, to them.

God will still have so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3-16 NIV and without him nothing was made that has been made. John 1-3 This includes your computer, the International Space Station, Stonehenge, the Pyramids and that donkey who carried your Saviour to Bethlehem for His birth.

Given that everyone here is Christian, I'm not sure anyone would argue that science could be used to disprove the Bible.

 

[RamiC]

Especially when the Bible doesn't indicate one way or the other what the age of the Earth is. It's not even as though there is a Biblical position on the topic.

I agree with you here. However as it happens, for all our modern ability to drop old tin cans all over space, having already spoilt the earth, and that is after getting ourselves cursed in the first place, I do not see all our tools as providing anything more likely either.

I do see this..."The mystery of life is certainly the most persistent problem ever placed before the thought of man. There is no doubt that from the time humanity began to think it has occupied itself with the problem of its origin and its future which undoubtedly is the problem of life. The inability of science to solve it is absolute." Guglielmo Marconi in 1934

 

[RamiC]

This reminds me of a time travel movie I watched called 'Black Easter'.

Thank you I enjoyed that.

"21 The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God’s people. Amen." Revelation 22-21 NIV

 

[Apple Sky]

Thank you I enjoyed that.

"21 The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God’s people. Amen." Revelation 22-21 NIV

I'm glad you enjoyed

 

[d taylor]

But in 6000 years time our technology will be ancient history, and people will be talking about how we didn't know that the universe was really 60,000 years old, or will that be 40 billion years old, or 7 million. Until we get an advance on these really basic designs

View attachment 360188
we just would not know. Perhaps we have had our minds affected by the surrounding cultures. In 6000 years time they will have all noticed how subjective our perspective was.

-
​

This image is a painting

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Interesting from Douay-Rheims Bible Version.

Isaiah 40:22 DRB
22 It is he that sitteth upon the globe of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as locusts: he that stretcheth out the heavens as nothing, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in.

I think in modern English, someone might say "that is the sphere of influence."

The Hebrew seems to imply a circle as in "orbit."

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