How do we forgive someone without approving of their behavior?

the Vital One said:

What if the person does not repent, or repents in only a shallow manner at best? That is my issue.

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Hello again the Vital One, if you have confronted the person who sinned against you (as the Lord instructs us to do in Luke 17:3) and they refuse to repent, then the ball remains in their court, and you do NOT* forgive them.

We, because we are Christians, do this for THEIR sake/for their good*, w/o regard for ourselves .. e.g. Philippians 2:3-4 cf Matthew 5:21-24, 43-48; Galatians 6:9-10. If you allow anger and hatred to well-up inside you over something that someone did to you, then you don't need to ask the Lord to forgive them, rather, you need to ask Him to forgive you instead

The world tells us to "forgive" others so that ~we~ can begin to "heal", begin to "feel better" about ourselves, and perhaps even get some of our "power" back, knowing that we (because we have chosen to "forgive" someone who hurt us) are CLEARLY the better person.

Once again however, all of this is done, w/o any regard whatsoever for the well-being of the person who harmed us, and as Christians, this is simply not the way we are taught and admonished to act. It could hardly be considered to be Christlike on our parts, yes?

Quite frankly, the world and its style of "forgiveness" instructs us to let go of our raging anger and hatred towards someone who has harmed us, but with no thought of that person's well-being and/or of reconciliation with them down the road. God wants us to be "reconciled", BOTH with Him .. e.g. 2 Corinthians 5:20 and with each other .. e.g. Matthew 5:24 (~particularly~ with our brothers and sisters in Christ), so "forgiveness", Biblically speaking, is NOT the end game, reconciliation is.

It is Satan (this world's "prince") who wants us to be divided (and to remain so, of course), and what better way to do so than to convince believers to 1. disobey God, by not immediately confronting those who have sinned against us (which is what begins the process of repentance, forgiveness and reconciliation) and then to 2. begin a 'cold war' instead by having nothing to do with the person who harmed us, ever again. We may "feel" better about ourselves when we do so and be able to "move on" (by getting our emotions back in check), but if we continue to have nothing to do with them, have we not simply found another way to hate them (perhaps for good)?

As believers, God ALONE is our portion, yes? So, if we continue to feel anger/hatred towards those who have harmed us (be it a passionate kind of hatred/anger that is still on the surface, or an impassionate kind that we have managed to bury down deep for our personal benefit) then, first and foremost, it is our personal relationship with God that needs to be looked at and tended to, yes?

Those are some of my thoughts anyway, and hopefully some of them will be worth considering There is more to talk about (in regard to Biblical ~vs~ worldly "forgiveness"), but I've already made this post too long (sorry about that) so I will stop here.

God bless you!!

--David
p.s. - sadly, I too am still guilty of practicing what the world calls "forgiveness", so I know how DIFFICULT the Biblical model can be (I am a people-pleaser by nature, and the world's model is so much easier and so much more pleasing to our "old man", isn't it?). So, whenever I am faced with a difficult decision (and difficult decisions as a Christian tend to involve others, of course) and I don't know what I should do/which way I should go, the simple instructions below from Dr. Fergeson have proven to be invaluable to me.

Satan tries to convince us that we would do better by going our own way/that just following our feelings is the way that we should choose to go, but I've found that when I stop listening to Satan and/or to my feelings, and I choose to listen to God instead (taking Him at His word in spite of what my feelings are telling me to do instead), that good is always the result

the Vital One said:

What if someone takes deep joy from their sin?

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Well sin is almost always joyful at the time of the sin which is part of what makes it so attractive and why we all sin but Jesus allows us to make mistakes and repent, when I sin I hate the sin almost immediately but I continue to love myself.

Michael Collum said:

Jesus forgave the people while they were yet crucifying him, they didn't repent.

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No Jesus prayed' Father, forgive them.' Jesus did not forgive them.

the Vital One said:

What if several prayers don't seem to be helping?

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The hurt we experience can mark us very deeply.
Handing that hurt, the resentment, the hatred, the anger is very hard to let go of.

But that is something we have to do, to talk to God about what has happened, how it affected us sand how we feel about it.
This is not an easy fix of just ' forgive them ', this is seeking Gods peace and healing for the hurt one has suffered, part of that is in praying for the good of those who hurt us.

the Vital One said:

Thank you for the fire and brimstone, but telling me to do something doesn't help me do it.

Reviewing the original question:

How do we forgive someone without approving of their behavior?​

So, how do we forgive? And without approving, overtly or tacitly, of their behavior?

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But it is very real. See the person on the edge of the pit about to be thrown in. Hear the screams below. Realize the person is going into that pit because of your refusal to let it go. Turn to the Lord and say "Don't hurt them on my account. I can let it go."
Congrats... it is no more difficult than that.

SavedByGrace3 said:

But it is very real. See the person on the edge of the pit about to be thrown in. Hear the screams below. Realize the person is going into that pit because of your refusal to let it go. Turn to the Lord and say "Don't hurt them on my account. I can let it go."

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No one goes to hell because of our attitude. They go because of their attitude.
What you have written is emotional blackmail, abusing an already hurt person with incorrect biblical information.
Luke 17:3 makes it clear, no repentance no forgiveness.

SavedByGrace3 said:

See the person on the edge of the pit about to be thrown in. Hear the screams below. Realize the person is going into that pit ~because of your refusal to let it go~. Turn to the Lord and say "Don't hurt them on my account. I can let it go."

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Hello SavedByGrace3, so (if I am understanding you correctly), you are saying that God cannot forgive even a truly penitent sinner If the person who they sinned against steadfastly refuses to forgive them? If that’s what you believe, please tell us where that teaching can be found in the Bible.

If I’ve misunderstood you somehow and that isn’t what you believe, please clear it up for me.

Thanks

~David

Tolworth John said:

No Jesus prayed' Father, forgive them.' Jesus did not forgive them.

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Jesus prayed an insincere prayer?

Michael Collum said:

Jesus prayed an insincere prayer?

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No he as the the Godman, was like God and like man unable to forgive those who had not repented.

The bible teaches that there has to be repentance before there is forgiveness.

Tolworth John said:

No he as the the Godman, was like God and like man unable to forgive those who had not repented.

The bible teaches that there has to be repentance before there is forgiveness.

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Sounds like some sort of theology is making the text say something other that what it plainly reads.

Thanks for the discussion.

St_Worm2 said:

Hello SavedByGrace3, so (if I am understanding you correctly), you are saying that God cannot forgive even a truly penitent sinner If the person who they sinned against steadfastly refuses to forgive them? If that’s what you believe, please tell us where that teaching can be found in the Bible.

If I’ve misunderstood you somehow and that isn’t what you believe, please clear it up for me.

Thanks

~David

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I am talking about how to get a heart that will forgive people. I am not talking about the person who did the wrong. I am talking about the person who was wronged. It does not matter what the person who wronged did or is doing. What matters to the wronged party is to forgive. Either that or be turned over to the tormentors.
Jesus said to forgive. And there is an "or else" attached to that.

Tolworth John said:

No one goes to hell because of our attitude. They go because of their attitude.
What you have written is emotional blackmail, abusing an already hurt person with incorrect biblical information.
Luke 17:3 makes it clear, no repentance no forgiveness.

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I am talking about how to get a heart that will forgive people. I am not talking about the person who did the wrong. I am talking about the person who was wronged. It does not matter what the person who wronged did or is doing. What matters to the wronged party is to forgive. Either that or be turned over to the tormentors.
Jesus said to forgive. And there is an "or else" attached to that.

I just say Dear God help me to have the forgiveness toward _youknowwho that you want me to have. Try not to keep your focus on bad stuff. And keep your distance from them.

Michael Collum said:

Sounds like some sort of theology is making the text say something other that what it plainly reads.

Thanks for the discussion.

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The text reads Jesus prayed ' Father forgive them.' not 'I forgive them'.

SavedByGrace3 said:

What matters to the wronged party is to forgive.

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Sorry but that is unbiblical nonsence.

Through out the bible both old and new forgiveness is always preceded by repentance.
Luke17:3 shows if there is no repentance then there is no requirement to forgive.
Jesus shows this on the cross when he prayed 'Father forgive them.'

The repeated command to forgive is linked in the jewish mind to the preceding repentance.
If an offender says they are sorry then we Must forgive.

Tolworth John said:

The text reads Jesus prayed ' Father forgive them.' not 'I forgive them'.

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Yet it is said also in the same scriptures: God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. (Romans 5:8)

Furthermore, I do not understand a context in which someone would say, "I don't forgive them, but forgive them for me."

the Vital One said:

Forgiveness may be interpreted as approval.

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Not by any reasonable person.

Tolworth John said:

Sorry but that is unbiblical nonsence.

Through out the bible both old and new forgiveness is always preceded by repentance.
Luke17:3 shows if there is no repentance then there is no requirement to forgive.
Jesus shows this on the cross when he prayed 'Father forgive them.'

The repeated command to forgive is linked in the jewish mind to the preceding repentance.
If an offender says they are sorry then we Must forgive.

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Thanks... I do not think you understand what I am saying either in context or in relation to the OP.
Thanks for the comment thought.

Michael Collum said:

I do not understand a context in which someone would say, "I don't forgive them, but forgive them for me."

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Hello Michael, Luke 23:34 is a fascinating verse (IMHO), worthy of a thread of its own. Why, for instance, did the Lord Jesus turn to His Father in this instance and ask Him to do what we know He had the power and authority to do Himself, what He had, in fact, been doing Himself until this point in time .. e.g. Matthew 9:6?

Beyond that, what was it and who was it (specifically) that Jesus was asking His Father to forgive? Was it forgiveness for murdering an innocent man, or for murdering the most innocent Man of all? Or was it for not knowing what they should have known about the One they were crucifying? Something else perhaps? Or did He have in mind a blanket forgiveness (if you will) that would forgive them of all of the sins they had committed, were committing and would commit, and that w/o repentance or seeking to be forgiven by Him?

Finally, who did the "them" include? Just the Roman Soldiers? The people too? The Jewish leaders? The criminals who hung there with Him on His left and on His right? Everybody?

It's amazing how many questions that a half of a verse can generate sometimes, isn't it, especially when what is said is, at best, unclear Like I said, a verse that could certainly be discussed at some length in a post of its own (or at the very least, given a much deeper look personally).

God bless you!!

--David

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