How do those who believe in no death before the fall understand the Tree of Life

[redleghunter]

In Eden Adam and Eve were created perfect as to their natures, and yet they were still neutral, so to speak, in their relation to God. Being rational creatures with free will they were morally responsible for their actions: they had choices to make; they could do right and they could do wrong. And their primary and most immediate choice to make was to choose God, in a sense, by choosing obedience to Him. The gift of immortality was theirs, but would remain theirs only as they chose to be subjugated to the One who held the power of life over death and who, alone, deserved their full love and devotion, a truth which they hadn't yet come to appreciate.

IMO, to eat of the Tree of Life would be to leave their neutral state and step more positively towards righteousness, towards goodness, towards justice. It would be to move towards or nearer to God, to feed off of Him, recognizing their unceasing and total need for and dependency on Him. This would only mean, and could only authentically result from, loving Him with their whole heart, soul, mind, and strength. This is the true definition of justice for man, that which makes him just.

Instead Adam and Eve did otherwise, by eating of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil they denied their dependency on and need for God; they made their bid for autonomy; they became their own "gods" by denying His godhood. This was essentially an act of unbelief, which is why faith is the first step back to God for man. And they died, by spiritually separating themselves from the source of their lives, and of their love and full happiness. And physical death entered their world as well, paralleling experientially, viscerally, what had happened spiritually inside.

Excellent summary and beautifully presented.

 

[redleghunter]

Perhaps I'm interpreting scripture wrong but don't we become immortal when we are given our new Sinless bodies when Jesus returns?

We will put on the imperishable (1 Corinthians 15:53) and be like Jesus Christ.

1 John 3: NASB
1See how great a love the Father has bestowed on us, that we would be called children of God; and such we are. For this reason the world does not know us, because it did not know Him. 2Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is. 3And everyone who has this hope fixed on Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.

 

[fhansen]

Excellent summary and beautifully presented.

Thanks redleghunter. It can be fun to argue, but better yet when we actually agree! LOL

 

[JDD_III]

I do not believe that "good" must mean "immortal physical bodies".

No, I am saying that it would lead to logical contradictions like a square circle. Why to have a physical heart or a brain if you can live without any discomfort without them? The design would be redundant and simply not elegant. There would have to be an unending line of miracles going on, so natural laws as such would have no point. And that would again rise a question, if it can be called "physical" or "natural" or even "good".


They did not die physically after eating. So it probably was not about this kind of death. More about spiritual death, separation from the abundance and presence of God, who is the source of all life.

I believe that the tree of life would transform them to spitirual bodies like Christ has now and which we will obtain to live eternally.

How do you know Jesus' body is a spiritual one?

 

[NobleMouse]

How do you know Jesus' body is a spiritual one?

I agree. In fact, I'm reading the book Heaven by Randy Alcorn right now and there are many indications that Jesus has a physical body in the present heaven. Is is absolutely foundational to the Christian faith that Jesus had a physical body when he was resurrected (the tomb was empty). In Revelation 22:4 it says, "They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads." This suggests the same glorified body that Jesus had when He rose from the grave (and seen by hundreds of eye witnesses), will be the same body upon which His face exists, now, in heaven.

Further, the apostle John [in the book of Revelation] describes the 144,000 saints that were martyred and ascribes physical characteristics, bodies upon which white robes are worn, they have voices - John is describing what he is seeing and hearing. We could ask: If they don't look like "people" how does John recognize them as saints? If they aren't physical at all, why does he describe them with physical, human characteristics? How do white robes "hang" on a non-physical body? Etc...

There are many things we will not know about heaven until we get there, but the Bible does give some information, and from what is given it appears there are at least some physical qualities to heaven and these physical qualities are in reference to Jesus and some other people who are currently there.

 

[JDD_III]

I agree. In fact, I'm reading the book Heaven by Randy Alcorn right now and there are many indications that Jesus has a physical body in the present heaven. Is is absolutely foundational to the Christian faith that Jesus had a physical body when he was resurrected (the tomb was empty). In Revelation 22:4 it says, "They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads." This suggests the same glorified body that Jesus had when He rose from the grave (and seen by hundreds of eye witnesses), will be the same body upon which His face exists, now, in heaven.

Further, the apostle John [in the book of Revelation] describes the 144,000 saints that were martyred and ascribes physical characteristics, bodies upon which white robes are worn, they have voices - John is describing what he is seeing and hearing. We could ask: If they don't look like "people" how does John recognize them as saints? If they aren't physical at all, why does he describe them with physical, human characteristics? How do white robes "hang" on a non-physical body? Etc...

There are many things we will not know about heaven until we get there, but the Bible does give some information, and from what is given it appears there are at least some physical qualities to heaven and these physical qualities are in reference to Jesus and some other people who are currently there.

Exactly. The NT clearly teaches a bodily physical resurrection. Jesus ate with the disciples and they could put their fingers in his hands and side of a resurrected body that chose to bear the scars of His death. Yet He could also walk through walls. I would say the NT is very clear on a physical resurrection for all.

I have no evidence to support the following viewpoint so am far from dogmatic on it, but I hasten to remind us that we cannot assume that Adam and Eve initially had physical bodies like we see humans today. They may have had more physical properties similar to what we see Jesus had in His resurrected form. The fall brought on physical changes, including changes to childbirth, disease (viruses, bacteria), the plants and the way animals are and behaved. It is possible that the genetic code we see today was more a result of the fall than anything - I certainly have time for the genetic entropy theory.

My point - we often make too many assumptions about the initial creation that we just do not know. There will be a restoration promised, but that has not come yet. Given so many unknowns, it would be unwise for us to dogmatically extrapolate back to Adam and Eve based on what we observe now.