How do Protestants answer this...

[Dominus Fidelis]

How do you answer charges that Jesus didn't come to abolish the law, but fufill it?

He said that not one letter of the Torah would disappear until the end, so we can't just write everything off except the 10 commandments.

Matthew 5:17-18

"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished."

I suppose you would bring up St Paul's teachings about grace and how we aren't under the Law anymore. But how does that reconcile with what Jesus said about the Law and the Prophets not passing away until Heaven and Earth pass away?

Cheers

 

[JillLars]

All of the laws of the bible are encompassed in two commandmants, Love God, and Love one another, everything else will fall into place if we obey these two commands.

 

[Reformationist]

How do you answer charges that Jesus didn't come to abolish the law, but fufill it?

What do you mean how do we answer the charges?

God bless

 

[Dominus Fidelis]

What do you mean how do we answer the charges?

God bless

The Messianics use this to say the Torah is still in effect. I disagree. I was wondering how you feel about it and why.

 

[HumbleMan]

Mt 22:40 (NIV) "All the law and the prophets hang on these two commandments"

 

[Dominus Fidelis]

Mt 22:40 (NIV) "All the law and the prophets hang on these two commandments"

Yes. We remain in Jesus by loving each other.

 

[Reformationist]

The Messianics use this to say the Torah is still in effect. I disagree. I was wondering how you feel about it and why.

Sorry to be so inquisitive but what do you mean by "still in effect?" Are you saying that they use this to justify the keeping of ceremonial laws, like the exclusion of certain foods and the keeping of certain holidays?

Godb less

 

[Dominus Fidelis]

I guess I mean just keep observing everything in the Old Testament Law.

 

[Reformationist]

I guess I mean just keep observing everything in the Old Testament Law.

Well, considering that no created person ever has or ever will keep all of the OT laws this side of being glorified it is really rather a moot point. If one believes that justification comes by keeping the law then all they do is agree that the Law binds them to perfect obedience and, thus, they fail and none are or will be justified.

Christ establised the true intent and purpose of the Law in His teachings and accomplished these commands in His obedient life. The Law, as well as the Prophets, points to their fulfillment in Christ Jesus.

God bless

 

[Dominus Fidelis]

Well, considering that no created person ever has or ever will keep all of the OT laws this side of being glorified it is really rather a moot point. If one believes that justification comes by keeping the law then all they do is agree that the Law binds them to perfect obedience and, thus, they fail and none are or will be justified.

Christ establised the true intent and purpose of the Law in His teachings and accomplished these commands in His obedient life. The Law, as well as the Prophets, points to their fulfillment in Christ Jesus.

God bless

Thanks Ref

PS

Why dont we still follow all of the Torah laws, even if they don't justify us? Heaven and Earth havent passed away yet, have they?

 

[Reformationist]

Thanks Ref

PS

Why dont we still follow all of the Torah laws, even if they don't justify us? Heaven and Earth havent passed away yet, have they?

Any Torah laws in particular?

God bless

 

[Dominus Fidelis]

Any Torah laws in particular?

God bless

Nothing off the top of my head. I'm just going by what the MJs tell me and bouncing it off you all for some interesting thoughts.

 

[plum]

I'm curious if you think Protestants do write off everything but the 10 commandments. That is what i gathered from your original post.

Let's not forget this!

2 Timothy 3
15and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Yes, ladies and gents, even the Old Testament. Every piece of Scripture. So my answer to you is no; if anyone believes this passage as truth, they cannot "blow off" even the geneologies or the requirements for the tabernacle.

 

[Dominus Fidelis]

I'm curious if you think Protestants do write off everything but the 10 commandments. That is what i gathered from your original post.

Let's not forget this!

2 Timothy 3
15and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Yes, ladies and gents, even the Old Testament. Every piece of Scripture. So my answer to you is no; if anyone believes this passage as truth, they cannot "blow off" even the geneologies or the requirements for the tabernacle.

No, I included myself in the writing off comment.

 

[eldermike]

Brief interruption:

Jesus was observing Jewish Law the night He was arrested.

Now back to your regularly scheduled PRE thread.

 

[Dominus Fidelis]

Huh?

 

[dsdumpling]

Jesus was observing the Passover.

 

[Dominus Fidelis]

Ok...

 

[Momzilla]

As it happens, I am currently studying the Gospel of Matthew, where this passage appears. The commentary I'm using (by William Barclay) has quite a lengthy discussion on the subject, but I think it can be summed up with the following quotation:

[Jesus] said that he had not come to destroy the Law, but to fulfil the law. That is to say, he came really to bring out the real meaning of the law. What was the real meaning of the Law? ... The one great principle was that in all things a man must seek God's will and that, when he knows it, he must dedicate his whole life to the obeying of it. The Scribes and the Pharisees were right in seeking God's will, and profoundly right in dedicating their lives to obeying it; they were wrong in finding that will in their man-made hordes of rules and regulations.
... [Jesus] came to show men in actual life what reference for God and respect for men are like.

I think this is basically what Reformationist has already said.

 

[Ken]

I agree (as usual) with Reformationist.... so as to the OP, I would point to the following Scripture which helps, I think, remind us of the purpose of the Law in the first place....:

Gal 3:21-29 NASB Is the Law then contrary to the promises of God? May it never be! For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law. (22) But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. (23) But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. (24) Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. (25) But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. (26) For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. (27) For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. (28) There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. (29) And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's descendants, heirs according to promise.

Blessings