How do Progressive Adventists handle the baptismal vows?

[M-Class]

People are interesting to watch. In doctrinal matters, some consider it more important to have Scripture vindicated rather than what they have been taught, and some are the very reverse of this. It is a trait illustrating to watch for in conversations, and this is what I'm hinting at when I mention integrity.

That is a good point. Months have passed since I raised some of the issues. Logically it would seem that, given the decision at hand, someone should have offered to study with me (outside of core group business meetings) by now (either to see what I had to say or to simply set me straight). Instead, I keep coming across an 'I thought that was no longer a problem' attitude no matter how clear I make it that a problem exists.

I've been watching our discussions with your attribute in mind.

There is at least one sincere individual (other than my wife and I) willing to question anything for the sake of scripture... thereby considering what I say. Due to her personality type though (always juggling a hundred things at once), she never gets around to dwelling on it long enough to see the full impact and it just falls off the radar as though it never existed.

On the flip side we also have someone formerly of denomination employment (educator) that is "trained" in these matters who is quicker to ask the question "what does our denomination say about that" than to consider the Bible.

Everyone else is a bit harder to read and are probably somewhere on the spectrum between those two extremes.

I have only stuck around because I feel that God has been asking me to do so in order to share what I can and to leave something positive behind. I've been very openly, but lovingly, questioning our doctrines whenever the opportunity presents itself. Given the clear agenda of the recent SS quarterlies lately it has not been very hard to find those opportunities (the discussion this past Sabbath was very lively).

Anyway, we usually never go more than 2 weeks without a core group meeting, but scheduling mishaps, bad weather, camp meeting, etc. have interfered with us meeting for a couple months now. I have followed God by sticking around... I had no idea my presence would last this long!

Our next meeting is tonight. A decision on the denomination may or may not take place (we have a lot of other time critical business to catch up on so it could be tabled for a week or two).

Everyone, please keep me in your prayers.

 

[VictorC]

That is a good point. Months have passed since I raised some of the issues. Logically it would seem that, given the decision at hand, someone should have offered to study with me (outside of core group business meetings) by now (either to see what I had to say or to simply set me straight). Instead, I keep coming across an 'I thought that was no longer a problem' attitude no matter how clear I make it that a problem exists.

I've been watching our discussions with your attribute in mind.

There is at least one sincere individual (other than my wife and I) willing to question anything for the sake of scripture... thereby considering what I say. Due to her personality type though (always juggling a hundred things at once), she never gets around to dwelling on it long enough to see the full impact and it just falls off the radar as though it never existed.

On the flip side we also have someone formerly of denomination employment (educator) that is "trained" in these matters who is quicker to ask the question "what does our denomination say about that" than to consider the Bible.

Everyone else is a bit harder to read and are probably somewhere on the spectrum between those two extremes.

I have only stuck around because I feel that God has been asking me to do so in order to share what I can and to leave something positive behind. I've been very openly, but lovingly, questioning our doctrines whenever the opportunity presents itself. Given the clear agenda of the recent SS quarterlies lately it has not been very hard to find those opportunities (the discussion this past Sabbath was very lively).

Anyway, we usually never go more than 2 weeks without a core group meeting, but scheduling mishaps, bad weather, camp meeting, etc. have interfered with us meeting for a couple months now. I have followed God by sticking around... I had no idea my presence would last this long!

Our next meeting is tonight. A decision on the denomination may or may not take place (we have a lot of other time critical business to catch up on so it could be tabled for a week or two).

I can see that the process you're engaged in is dictated by patience. I hope you don't mind if I say that I can already tell what the outcome of this process is going to be, as I believe you're more interested in following Him rather than the distinctives that cause denominational divisions in His body.

Someone asking you to tell him what your denomination teaches isn't going to satisfy your quest for Biblical integrity for very long. Neither is someone who is not engaged in the process you are.

Everyone, please keep me in your prayers.

Of course!

 

[M-Class]

I can see that the process you're engaged in is dictated by patience. I hope you don't mind if I say that I can already tell what the outcome of this process is going to be, as I believe you're more interested in following Him rather than the distinctives that cause denominational divisions in His body.

Someone asking you to tell him what your denomination teaches isn't going to satisfy your quest for Biblical integrity for very long. Neither is someone who is not engaged in the process you are.

Of course!

Your words do not come as anything new to me... you are probably correct on the outcome. Ultimately, I know the reality of where my situation is heading. At the same time, this isn't about me, it is about the next person... I still hope for a big "God moment" in which the rest of the group decides it is time to study before we make a decision. The reality is, that probably would have happened by now if it was going to. Until the deal is done or I am called in another direction though, I remain.

 

[VictorC]

Your words do not come as anything new to me... you are probably correct on the outcome. Ultimately, I know the reality of where my situation is heading. At the same time, this isn't about me, it is about the next person... I still hope for a big "God moment" in which the rest of the group decides it is time to study before we make a decision. The reality is, that probably would have happened by now if it was going to. Until the deal is done or I am called in another direction though, I remain.

Running backwards down the corridor on a train going the wrong way eventually brings you to the door of decision: stop running and stay on the train going the wrong way, or leave it and watch it go over the cliff from a vantage of safety in the Arms of your Redeemer.

 

[M-Class]

Reporting back...

The "door of decision" did happen last night. The vote fell 5 in favor of joining the denomination, 1 opposed (me), 1 abstaining (my wife), and 1 not present.

The biggest sentiments the group expressed were along the lines of 'this is all I've ever known and I believe it is right', 'we need the denomination to protect us', and 'we're not accomplishing enough now; once we're part of the denomination things will take off' (basically, the denomination was perceived as a magic pill of protection and evangelistic success). At no point was any consideration given to a study of the issues prior to making a decision. Loyalty to the denomination won out over searching the scriptures.

I turned in my resignation after the vote.

Since this is way off the original topic I started, I am going to start a new thread with the full story (including the details I have withheld until now).

 

[StormyOne]

Reporting back...

The "door of decision" did happen last night. The vote fell 5 in favor of joining the denomination, 1 opposed (me), 1 abstaining (my wife), and 1 not present.

The biggest sentiments the group expressed were along the lines of 'this is all I've ever known and I believe it is right', 'we need the denomination to protect us', and 'we're not accomplishing enough now; once we're part of the denomination things will take off' (basically, the denomination was perceived as a magic pill of protection and evangelistic success). At no point was any consideration given to a study of the issues prior to making a decision. Loyalty to the denomination won out over searching the scriptures.

I turned in my resignation after the vote.

Since this is way off the original topic I started, I am going to start a new thread with the full story (including the details I have withheld until now).

can't wait to hear the backstory......

 

[Sophia7]

Reporting back...

The "door of decision" did happen last night. The vote fell 5 in favor of joining the denomination, 1 opposed (me), 1 abstaining (my wife), and 1 not present.

The biggest sentiments the group expressed were along the lines of 'this is all I've ever known and I believe it is right', 'we need the denomination to protect us', and 'we're not accomplishing enough now; once we're part of the denomination things will take off' (basically, the denomination was perceived as a magic pill of protection and evangelistic success). At no point was any consideration given to a study of the issues prior to making a decision. Loyalty to the denomination won out over searching the scriptures.

I turned in my resignation after the vote.

Since this is way off the original topic I started, I am going to start a new thread with the full story (including the details I have withheld until now).

Sorry it turned out that way, but I suppose it's not surprising. I look forward to hearing more of your story.

 

[VictorC]

Reporting back...

The "door of decision" did happen last night. The vote fell 5 in favor of joining the denomination, 1 opposed (me), 1 abstaining (my wife), and 1 not present.

I can't say I'm glad, sad, or surprised. The "door of decision" comes to every individual at a different time in their experiences, and it could be you simply reached the door before the others in the group.

The biggest sentiments the group expressed were along the lines of 'this is all I've ever known and I believe it is right'

Read: "the Bible study was done 160+ years ago, and we don't need to repeat the exercise".

'we need the denomination to protect us'

Compare the "remnant" mentality I think this illustrates with John 17:15 - "I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one". Our protection doesn't come from anyone other than the Living God.

and 'we're not accomplishing enough now; once we're part of the denomination things will take off' (basically, the denomination was perceived as a magic pill of protection and evangelistic success).

My opinion is that without the prophet's endorsement of "I saw", no change is possible, and the prophet died in 1915. Thinking that the denomination will "take off" is not supported by history.

At no point was any consideration given to a study of the issues prior to making a decision. Loyalty to the denomination won out over searching the scriptures.

Back to "the Bible study was done 160+ years ago, and we don't need to repeat the exercise".

I turned in my resignation after the vote.

Since this is way off the original topic I started, I am going to start a new thread with the full story (including the details I have withheld until now).

Experiences have a way of enriching the individual, and those lessons learned aren't part of the group mentality. I would enjoy reading your testimony concerning the event that I believe the Hand of Providence was participating in.

 

[M-Class]

New thread opened with the rest of the story (or as much as I could condense it into without writing a book anyway)