How do non-Catholics explain Eucharistic miracles, such as bleeding, and Marian...

[Albion]

Is this why we always read whole sections of Scripture-OT, NT, Psalms and Gospel in Liturgy? As well as in daily Prayer? Because it's lip service?

You seem to have misunderstood the point, so I can't respond to this.

 

[squint]

How do we know what belongs in red letters?

Because fortunately Gods Word in written form was around for a lot longer than the RCC....

 

[Root of Jesse]

It could be that PRIVATE piety (which of course the Roman Catholic Church doesn't look kindly upon) might be an alternative to organized religion, but that's not what a "nominal" Christian, of any denomination, is doing or what the word means.


No one's pitting anything. I was merely making a factual correction to something you wrote. Most Catholic countries are NOT populated by people who are defined by their faith. In most of them, the people's connection to their church is minimal.

Why do you continue to tell lies about the Catholic Church? Private devotion is not looked kindly upon? The Rosary is a private devotion. The Divine Mercy Chaplet is a private devotion. Daily prayer and scripture reading, which are encouraged, are private devotions.

Regarding Catholicism, there is a rule which applies to most human entities. 80% of the production gets done by 20% of the population. So, in a company, some people do nearly all the production, the rest take up space. It's true, probably more so in Catholicism, as well as Protestant sects. Even in our national elections, and our tax structure.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Officially? hmmm, don't know if the Lady of Akita bled, but I think that is the only RCC official bleeding statue, if it did.

s

And which Marian apparitions does the RCC tell us we must believe?

 

[Albion]

Why do you continue to tell lies about the Catholic Church? Private devotion is not looked kindly upon? The Rosary is a private devotion. The Divine Mercy Chaplet is a private devotion. Daily prayer and scripture reading, which are encouraged, are private devotions.

Private devotions are not considered an adequate alternative to corporate worship, etc. As a supplement, sure, they're encouraged. You really need to stop jumping to extremes when you're looking for some rebuttal.
But since you are unwilling to discuss in a calm and civil manner, this is the end.

 

[squint]

And which Marian apparitions does the RCC tell us we must believe?

hmmm? Medjugorje and Akita?

Don't really follow them to tell you the truth. I had my fill of exposure to Mary channelers when I was more active in the charismatic realm...

s

 

[squint]

Private devotions are not considered an adequate alternative to corporate worship, etc. As a supplement, sure, they're encouraged. You really need to stop jumping to extremes when you're looking for some rebuttal.
But since you are unwilling to discuss in a calm and civil manner, this is the end.

Well Albion, you know if you don't accept their teachings on this matter what awaits you...

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

There were. We have documents that show it. We've shown it to this thread.

Oh goodness, no, no you didn't. The Sirach quote and the example of Anna don't even come close. Other people properly refuted them so I didn't take the time.

Perhaps you should read Raymond Brown's The Birth of the Messiah. Don't worry, it has an Imprimatur.

And what possible role would temple virgins play in the Jerusalem temple? Male priests had to be abstinent during their term of service in order to enter the holy place, but women couldn't enter the inner courtyard at all. So why be virgins? To... what? Direct foot traffic? The whole idea of temple virginity is a Roman idea, where women could be priest(esse)s, as in the case of the Vestals. So was Mary... a priestess?

 

[Root of Jesse]

What's a "hair shirt" and why would you wear
such a thing?


Inflicting minor tortures on oneself is sin.

I don't know. But it was a form of penance.

Depends on the minor torture. The Bible recommends fasting, which is considered mortification. When done for the purpose of bringing yourself closer to God, it's not a sin.

 

[Albion]

Well Albion, you know if you don't accept their teachings on this matter what awaits you...

Complaints that "non-Catholics" have nothing else to do in life other than invent lies about "the Church?" That's what every Methodist and Presbyterian layman does right after breakfast, I'm told.

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

What's a "hair shirt" and why would you wear
such a thing?

Ask John the Baptist.

 

[sunlover1]

I don't know. But it was a form of penance.

Depends on the minor torture. The Bible recommends fasting, which is considered mortification. When done for the purpose of bringing yourself closer to God, it's not a sin.

How does self torture bring one closer to God.
I think he's deceived to believe it tbh.

Fasting isn't torture unless you're a glutton lol.
Although I lack the self control to do much of it

 

[Root of Jesse]

Yeah, I saw that from the definition. I think it's a strange word, but I see no problem with that.



This is what had come to mind when he said mortification, but I wanted to be certain of it first. Exactly how is inflicting pain upon oneself a holy act?

The same way restraining a violent person is, in a sense, protection for that person.

I don't know, but self-sacrifice is always a good thing. For example, I examine myself and see that I've been walking past this same homeless man for a long time and not doing something for him. So I give him part of my lunch every day. And because of my doing so, I go a little bit hungry for part of the day until I get home.

I cannot speak for those who beat themselves. I personally don't get it. But I don't get it when people get every square inch of their chests tattooed, or even one square inch. It's not for me to judge.

 

[sunlover1]

Ask John the Baptist.

OH camel hair?
Is that what he's talking about?

 

[squint]

The same way restraining a violent person is, in a sense, protection for that person.

I don't know, but self-sacrifice is always a good thing. For example, I examine myself and see that I've been walking past this same homeless man for a long time and not doing something for him. So I give him part of my lunch every day. And because of my doing so, I go a little bit hungry for part of the day until I get home.

I cannot speak for those who beat themselves. I personally don't get it. But I don't get it when people get every square inch of their chests tattooed, or even one square inch. It's not for me to judge.

we all sincerely hope they have learned to keep their beatings to themselves...amen?

 

[seeingeyes]

God saw fit to preserve Mary's name in sacred scripture and God saw fit to record her obedience and her song of praise and the Lord's respect for her. That is enough.

If that were the RCC's stance, then there could be no argument.

 

[MoreCoffee]

If that were the [Catholic Church]'s stance, then there could be no argument.

You'd be surprised

 

[Root of Jesse]

Because fortunately Gods Word in written form was around for a lot longer than the RCC....

This isn't true of the NT...which is the only place we have God's word actually spoken.

 

[seeingeyes]

You'd be surprised

Oh, I didn't mean to say that no one would argue.

But that isn't the RCC stance on Mary, is it?

 

[FireDragon76]

This is what had come to mind when he said mortification, but I wanted to be certain of it first. Exactly how is inflicting pain upon oneself a holy act?

Under supervision of a spiritual director or priest, self-inflicted pain can be useful to fight the passions and cravings for things such as food or comfort, and encourage detachment from them so that a person avoids sins and developes virtues such as moderation. In a more Latin (Western Catholic) context, as well, they can be seen as uniting oneself with the sacrifice of Christ and offering up ones own sacrifice for some particular intention (prayer). There are psychological risks to this "minor torture" though, and it is controversial, but that isn't to say it is somehow un-Christian or unbiblical (and it is found in the Bible, too- wearing sackcloth and ashes was a kind of atonement among the Jews because it was physically uncomfortable).