How do I get started?

[BrokenWarrior]

Hello fellow believers,

I am a 17 year old wrapping up Highschool,so like anybody else even partly intellectual, I am thinking about my future.

I, for a few years, had it all planned out... Military> College> Law Enforcement... and was quite content, and looked forward to what The Lord had in store for me.

But a few months back, after my father was talking about jobs and other possible careers, started thinking to myself,"I'm gonna do this, right?";"I'm mean, this is my kinda life style, and I like it right?"; what else would I do anyway huh? Be some lawyer? Or a preacher or something?".

And those last few words were obviously a joke, but as my brain started to compute it, I said to myself:"Preacher?....I don't know.... a preacher?...well, why not? Daily jobs are to support ones family for his lifetime or until The Lord returns... I love Him, and really all that matters is Him... so, why not get paid living, not only A life pleasing to God, but maybe, THE life style pleasing to God?"

And after a while of thinking about it, I think that's what Christ might want me to do...

I Love Him, I'm saved, and it feels right... or, at least, doesn't feel wrong... I suppose if it's not what He wants, I'll find out soon enough eh?

So,... how do I get about it friends?

I would probably stick with baptist/southern baptist for my own reasons, but I am, and will continue to be, always based off Scripture.

I know that one doesn't need College education to find a position of minister that needs to be filled, but, I feel like I want to... better earlier than later, and I'm not the best (though not the worst) at speaking to crowds, and I feel the need to understand Scripture better (as well as study it more).

What would you guys recommend? What College? What Undergraduate and Graduate Degrees should I aim for? What courses would i take?

I've heard Liberty University isn't bad, I believe that's in West Virginia? I'm in Central/Central - East America...

I figure, Lord Willing, that since I still live with my parents, I'll stick with my temporary job to save up for a few years before I attend College.

Any advice is much appreciated, and, I apologize for the wall of text and if this wasn't posted in the right area

-A Fellow Servent In Christ

 

[JojotheBeloved]

Good for you!
The only thing I could suggest is that even if you don't necessarily have to go to college to become a minister in your denomination, you really should go to a strong Christian college to be better prepared to lead people. There are lots of wonderfully helpful tools available in college to help you learn how to study the Bible more deeply, how to interpret things from the Bible in a way that will make sense to a congregation, and you'll get more practice in public speaking. You'll also get some tips on how to assist members of your congregation in crisis and how to speak for church events other than weekly services (such as weddings and funerals). My college also put me in touch with internships where I could practice what I had learned in a real church leadership team. That's my two cents worth. Some churches also want their pastor to have gone to denominational specific schools so they learn more of their church's specific teachings in depth. I don't know if that's the case with baptists or not though. You'd have to do some research on that.

 

[BrokenWarrior]

Good for you!
The only thing I could suggest is that even if you don't necessarily have to go to college to become a minister in your denomination, you really should go to a strong Christian college to be better prepared to lead people. There are lots of wonderfully helpful tools available in college to help you learn how to study the Bible more deeply, how to interpret things from the Bible in a way that will make sense to a congregation, and you'll get more practice in public speaking. You'll also get some tips on how to assist members of your congregation in crisis and how to speak for church events other than weekly services (such as weddings and funerals). My college also put me in touch with internships where I could practice what I had learned in a real church leadership team. That's my two cents worth. Some churches also want their pastor to have gone to denominational specific schools so they learn more of their church's specific teachings in depth. I don't know if that's the case with baptists or not though. You'd have to do some research on that.

Hello friend and thanks for responding,

What you just said is EXACTLY what I'm talking about.

Might I ask , because of my ignorance of College, what Undergraduate/Graduate programs and what classes you would recommend for such skills?

And I would further ask if, perhaps, there is College you would recommend?

Thanks again

-A Fellow Servent In Christ

 

[JojotheBeloved]

I'd be happy to give my personal experience if it helps you, but since I am Seventh-day Adventist and you said you're Baptist, I'm not sure I can reccomend a school to your specific needs (unless you'd like to go to an Adventist school, but then Baptists might not want you to pastor their churches, I honestly don't know). You will probably have to do some research in that regard and make an informed decision for your beliefs and church affiliation.

As to the program/classes to take... my college had an undergraduate program available specifically for students interested in pastoral ministry. It was a Bachelor's of Arts in Theology, and most students got a minor in Biblical Languages. Some students took Religion instead of Theology, because at my school Religion majors didn't need to take biblical languages classes and Theology students had to take both Greek and Hebrew. Most Religion majors at my school though were double-majoring with Education as their main focus. But depending on what you want to do and what the colleges you're interested in offer, Religion may suit you just as well. I've also heard of schools titling their program for pastors as Pastoral Studies or Church Ministry. Whatever the title though, I personally would recommend getting a Bachelor's degree even if you don't have to in your denomination, because if there is ever a lack of paid work in your church network having a Bachelor's degree will make you more eligible in any job you apply for. You are also eligible for promotion with a BA whereas most places you're not if you don't. Anyway, when I was working on my Theology program required classes included 4 terms of Greek, 3 terms of Hebrew, 3 terms of Preaching classes, Christian Ethics, lots of Bible study based classes on different books of the Bible. The Bible study classes I remember best are Daniel and Jeremiah, and Letters of Paul (I had fantastic teachers for those and learned a lot). We also had to take a Crisis Ministry class - which focused on counseling church members in times of crisis and discerning when to refer them to a professional counselor for mental illness. We had a few required Church History classes at different levels throughout the undergraduate program. A research writing class specifically for theological argumentation - in case you ever wanted to write a book on theology. A class or two on Apologetics and Philosophy - to learn how people/churches think about God in formal theological ways. Plus you had all your general credits that all undergraduates have to take. It was a lot of work, but I am very grateful for it. I feel I have a much broader understanding of how people think and believe about God, and how it influences their life and practices. I have tools at my disposal to help people in need, wherever I happen to connect with them. I have more humility in regards to church people and how churches function. And more important than anything else, I have tools to study the Bible for myself and to seek Christ in a real way in my own life. I know what I believe and why, and I developed the ability to admit I don't know everything.

Anyway, I hope that's helpful for you. Like I said though, you really need to do some research for yourself and let God lead you to the right school for you. Feel free to take a little time to figure it out. Know that once you begin the path of pastoral training you will meet opposition in some form or another. That just means you're doing something right. The devil will try to stop you. But God is faithful and He is so much stronger than anything that may come against you and He will lead you and be with you always. The only reason I mention this is just to encourage you and to let you know that you should be as sure of your path as you can as you go into it, because it will serve you well to be determined.
I'll be praying for you. Feel free to ask any other questions you want. I don't have all the answers, but I may be able to help figure out where to find them.

 

[JojotheBeloved]

Oh, I forgot to mention... the BA in Theology I took also required practicum hours and not-for-credit lectures a few times every term. The lectures were easy. Just sign in and sit and listen for an hour. The practicum hours took more work as they were basically appointed internships with local churches near or affiliated with the college. But the practicum did give opportunity to sit and speak with a mentor who was a pastor once a week about pastoral stuff. You could ask any questions you had and they could give you any advice or helpful tips they knew of. My mentor gave me a lot of good practical advice on how to interview well, even over online video chat, and what types of things to focus on your first year in ministry after school so as to not only do the best for the church but also to show your best self and your best work to the church. I would recommend finding something like that, if you can, even if it's not a part of the required curriculum. It should be, but if it's not a mentor can be very helpful.

 

[BrokenWarrior]

Hey Jojo,

Thanks for posting again!

That does help me, yes. Though we might be ministering to different denominations, I still wanted to know what classes you took since they're kinda the sort of classes I'm looking for, that type of experience and knowledge that is.

I don't think that those are denomination specific anyway right? That "BA in Theology" sounds really familiar from my short time on the Internet searching around...

Anyway, thanks again for kinda giving me some ideas, God Bless friend!

If anybody else has anything else to add or suggest, please feel free to do so.

-The Current Lowest Servant

 

[JojotheBeloved]

You're correct. I don't think the titles of the programs or even the majority of content is denomination specific. I think a lot of it can apply to any church or sometimes even other formal group gatherings. I'm glad to be of help. Good hunting!

 

[phydaux]

Hey, bro. What branch of the service?

If you're comfortable and happy being Baptist, then stay active in your denominational structure. That will help you when it comes time for ordination and getting your first placement as a young pastor/preacher.

As far as ordination goes, you are looking at seminary. Basically, grad school. And specifically, Master of Divinity. Talk to the people in your denominational structure. They can point you toward a seminary that will give you quality education, won't ship wreck your faith, and won't cost you an arm and a leg.

And that raises another issue - You don't want to get out of seminary with a crippling load of student loan debt. You also don't want to be a "professional student" who takes 20 years to get his undergrad. That means two things:

Going to school full time after you get out of the military

and

Paying for as much of school as possible out of pocket while you are going.

In keeping with that, I'd recommend doing your first two years of undergrad at a community college, then transferring to a state college for your BA. If you judiciously keep track of transfer credits, then you can probably manage up to 2 1/2 years at the community college level before you transfer.

I'm being totally honest here - It really DOESN'T MATTER what your undergrad is in. Look into a degree in Communication. That degree gets a lot of flack as being a "phony major" but it's actually a good foundation for an M. Div.

Don't use your military college benefits until you get to seminary and you really NEED them.

You'll need a steady part time job while you're in school. I recommend that after your 4 years active duty then you re-up in the Reserves or the National Guard. That will give you some money coming in to keep your car on the road and pay for books.

God bless!

 

[phydaux]

"I know that one doesn't need College education to find a position of minister"

If you want to teach bible studies & Sunday school then you're absolutely right. If you want to get ordained as a non-denominational minister then you're probably right. But if you're looking at working inside the structure of a main line denomination like one of the flavors of Baptist, then you need an M Div.

 

[phydaux]

Also, think about this:

If you go to seminary for an extra year, then you can get a Master of Theology to go with your Master of Divinity. M. Div. is what's called a professional degree. It allows you to work as an ordained minister. Th. M. is an academic degree. It allows you to teach. At ANY post secondary level.

Being a preacher, particularly a new, freshly starting preacher, pays SQUAT. If you have a Th. M. then you can get a gig teaching, even if it's just one class a semester at the community college level.

That extra income can REALLY help out. IMO getting your Th. M is the ONLY thing that can justify taking out a bunch of student loans. But you have to then resign yourself that you're going to be working two jobs for a LONG time to pay the loans off.

 

[phydaux]

"you really should go to a strong Christian college to be better prepared to lead people."

That's exactly what seminary is all about - Preparing young people to lead.

 

[phydaux]

OK, one last thought.

You do 4 years active duty. Say you go Air Force and serve in the Air Police. You finish those four years then enlist in either the Air Force Reserve or the Air National Guard, again as Air Police.

You serve 4 years in the reserves getting your undergrad, then another 4 years getting your M. Div. & your Th. M.

Now you're a newly minted ordained minister. You set out looking for work.

I'm gonna strongly recommend you STAY in the Reserves/National Guard.

You'll have 12 years total service at that point. It will only be another 8 years before you qualify for military retirement.

Odds are you'll be able to land a gig teaching Comparative Religions at a community college. And as far as ministry goes it's highly likely that the only job you'll get right out of school is a 20 hour a week gig at the local mega-church doing youth ministry.

Between the reserves, teaching and ministry you'll have what amounts to three part time jobs. but together they'll probably pay better than any single job,and be more interesting.

Another plus is if the school says "Oh, we don't have a class for you this semester, try again next semester" or if the mega-church says "Oh, we decided we don't need a youth pastor AND a high school pastor" then it's not the end of the world because you still have two other checks coming in.

And once you retire from the reserves then you'll only be working two jobs but you'll STILL have three checks coming in.

 

[BrokenWarrior]

Also, think about this:

If you go to seminary for an extra year, then you can get a Master of Theology to go with your Master of Divinity. M. Div. is what's called a professional degree. It allows you to work as an ordained minister. Th. M. is an academic degree. It allows you to teach. At ANY post secondary level.

Being a preacher, particularly a new, freshly starting preacher, pays SQUAT. If you have a Th. M. then you can get a gig teaching, even if it's just one class a semester at the community college level.

That extra income can REALLY help out. IMO getting your Th. M is the ONLY thing that can justify taking out a bunch of student loans. But you have to then resign yourself that you're going to be working two jobs for a LONG time to pay the loans off.

Hey Brother, thanks for posting!

Army by the way

Anyway, so what you're suggesting is, Get a BA in communication at a community College; then go to seminary school and get a Masters in Divinity, then stay an extra year to get a Masters in Theology?

Am I following you so far?

As for my funding, I have no doubt The Lord will help me if this is His will. Right now I'm blessed with a good job. And God willing I might be seeking a job that pays literally 9 - 10x more and save up while I still live with my parents... (I would say 35-40k a year, saved over 2-3 years is a good start )

Anyways, thanks for posting brother!

-The Current Lowest Servant

 

[phydaux]

Yeah, get a BA in whatever interests you. Start your studies at a local community collage, then finish your degree at a state collage. Communications is a popular major that is known for being not all that demanding. At the same time though it will, depending on your choice of classes, provide you with an excellent, broad, general education that will serve you well in seminary.

Talk to those in your denomination's leadership. They should be able to point you toward a well respected seminary that won't ship wreck your faith (like many "modern" seminaries) or break your bank account (it would be great if EVERYONE could go to Dallas but not everyone can).

Also, odds are that your denomination has scholarships & grants available for seminary. That's one of the advantages of staying active in your denomination all through this process. That, and the ordination after school, and job prospects after ordination.

The Th. M., honestly, is only if you are interested in teaching. If you're not going to teach then the Th. M. is just to stroke your pride.

AND to lay the foundation for your honorary Doctor of Divinity further down the road.

So Army... 11B?

 

[BrokenWarrior]

Yeah, get a BA in whatever interests you. Start your studies at a local community collage, then finish your degree at a state collage. Communications is a popular major that is known for being not all that demanding. At the same time though it will, depending on your choice of classes, provide you with an excellent, broad, general education that will serve you well in seminary.

Talk to those in your denomination's leadership. They should be able to point you toward a well respected seminary that won't ship wreck your faith (like many "modern" seminaries) or break your bank account (it would be great if EVERYONE could go to Dallas but not everyone can).

Also, odds are that your denomination has scholarships & grants available for seminary. That's one of the advantages of staying active in your denomination all through this process. That, and the ordination after school, and job prospects after ordination.

The Th. M., honestly, is only if you are interested in teaching. If you're not going to teach then the Th. M. is just to stroke your pride.

AND to lay the foundation for your honorary Doctor of Divinity further down the road.

So Army... 11B?

Thank you friend, this has given me a really good idea at what to look for and what to seek. It has really got the ol' wheels turning, appreciate it

Also, Military Police

God Bless!
-The Current Lowest Servant

 

[phydaux]

"Military Police"


Cool. Just like Air Police and Air National Guard, MPs have a lot of opportunities in the Army Reserve and the National Guard. If you're going to go into the service, and you're going MP, and you KNOW you're going to school after, it's kind of a no brainier to stay in the Guard or the Reserves for that part time pay check while you're in school.

You, these days you'll probably get deployed to the sand box some time during those four years. No problem. Take a semester off and save more money.



But, um, one thing, though.... What job are you looking at that pays 9-10x more than you're making now, allows you to live at home, and yet still allows you to join the Army?

 

[BrokenWarrior]

"Military Police"


Cool. Just like Air Police and Air National Guard, MPs have a lot of opportunities in the Army Reserve and the National Guard. If you're going to go into the service, and you're going MP, and you KNOW you're going to school after, it's kind of a no brainier to stay in the Guard or the Reserves for that part time pay check while you're in school.

You, these days you'll probably get deployed to the sand box some time during those four years. No problem. Take a semester off and save more money.



But, um, one thing, though.... What job are you looking at that pays 9-10x more than you're making now, allows you to live at home, and yet still allows you to join the Army?

Currently at a small summer job that I got back when I was 14, I make around 4k each season and am deciding between the Service or a local Toyota plant when I hit 18(Toyota entry level positions pay 33-40k depending on the hours, hence the 9-10x )

whichever one The Lord has me do i would stick with for about the same time (4yr Service term/3-4yrs at Toyota)

The reason I wouldn't instantly jump into school is because my dad always taught me to save up, He is very supportive and said I can continue to live at home as long as I've got a plan, and being able to save up 90-95% of a average of 36k a year for 3 to 4 years at Toyota would be about as good as the Service and it's benefits, and would really help my financial situation in regards to school and daily expenses.

Really praying God shows me which way He wants me to go... as of right now I'm leaning towards Toyota, but I suppose I'll find out soon enough eh?

God Bless,
-The Current Lowest Servant

 

[tonnerkiller]

Okay, here's the exotic alternative that might shipwreck your faith (I'm not lying to you here, you will not only hear the things you've always heard) but could be a lot cheaper:

Come here to Germany, to a normal state university, and study theology here (the degree title has changed if I remeber right, from Diplom to Magister Theologiae, but that's just the words).

There is no tuition fee, just a administration fee of between approx 50-300€ depending on the uni, and you can get a job to work for your living.

You'd need to study German, though, but you'd be able to read Luther, Melanchthon, Bucer, Zwingli and others in the original languages. You will also be required to study Hebrew, Greek and Latin, so you are able to understand the bible (and other documents of church history) in the original languages.

It's a though programme, and you decide upon where you put your focus on. There will be no spiritual guidance whatsoever from the uni, only what you get yourself by finding a congregation or something (but there are also student congregations at every uni). You'll be responsible in how far you can get your faith and what you learn together, the professors will in most cases not understand it as their job to hold your hand (on the other hand, many professors are ordained ministers, so you might also be lucky, you have to see with whom you can talk about doubts, if ever they come up).

The programme takes 6 years on paper, but expect it to be a bit longer, as you will have to study the language before.

As for the military there are US facilities in Mannheim and Heidelberg which is close to Heidelberg universtity, or there is the NATO headquarters in Wiesbaden with plenty US facilities and the University of Mainz just across the Rhine. Maybe you can find a job there while you study. Being German I have no clue about how your military is organised and what opportunities you have.

If you have questions, feel free to ask.

God bless
De Benny