How do I ACTUALLY be saved?

[Hazelelponi]

I know that I am a sinner before God in my own life (1 Timothy 1:15).

I want to clarify that I call myself a sinner in much the same way that an alcoholic in AA still calls himself an alcoholic even after he has been clean and sober fifty years.

Hello. If you are going by the Bible - which you should if you believe in it - there is NOWHERE in the Bible that a saved born again believer in Christ is called a sinner. Nowhere.

When Paul called himself chief among sinners it was clear he was speaking of his state prior to salvation.

Paul began his first letter to the Corinthian church by declaring that they were “sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be saints, together with all those who in every place call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ” (1 Corinthians 1:2, emphasis added). In this verse, hagios is translated “saints,” “holy,” and “sanctified” in different Bible versions, leading to the unmistakable conclusion that all who have ever called upon Christ for salvation are saints, made holy by the Lord.

In calling yourself a sinner, your denying your own salvation and new nature in Christ. You deny your calling.

In calling ourselves saints, it does something else very important. The second you see yourself as a saint who is saved by Grace, it makes you see it all so very differently when/if you do commit a sin. Your not a sinner with the excuse of a sin nature, your a saint without excuse, who just committed a sin against God, who lives inside you.

Perspective makes a difference. Its easier to sin against God when your just some sinner... than when your called a saint.

 

[ladodgers6]

It seems to me that you are saying here that God will not at any time perform the work of Ephesians 2:2-3 in us against our will. Correct me if I'm wrong.

The way I am answering this question, is that God drags people to heaven, kicking and screaming against their wills. So to this I reply, absolutely not! Is this fair enough?

Now it seems to me that you are here changing your tune, and saying that God will save us and do the work of Ephesians 2:2-3 in us, against our will, without our permission.
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Which one is it?

I am not trying to win an argument or win a debate with you. I am only sharing and answering your questions. We are DEAD in sin, and desire cravings of the mind and flesh. And in bondage to sin, death and Satan.

2 Cor. 4:4The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers so they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

In the Reformed Faith we believe that sinners do have a 'Free-Will'. Nobody forces or coerces sinners to sin. They sin willingly, because this is what they desire, want, love, and have appetite for. They are children of wrath. But once this disposition is changed, by the Holy Spirit regenerating their hearts of stone to hearts of flesh, and by the renewing of their minds, they can see, hear the truth of the Holy Spirit bearing witness to the truth of the Gospel, and they willingly believe and trust God!

So where is the permission? I am asking you?

In answer to your question, which I have placed in larger letters above, does not our heavenly Father draw sinners to Jesus by convicting them of sin (John 6:44, John 16:8-11)? He creates a situation where they must humble themselves, wherein He gives them the power to repent as He draws them. He succours (helps) them in the day of salvation (2 Corinthians 6:2, Hebrews 2:18) so that they are given the ability to make a decision to surrender to the Lord that is unhindered by the total depravity they inherited from Adam.

We believe in the preaching of Law & Gospel in relation to Justification by Faith Alone! I believe I have answered this question multiple times. How can a sinner repent if they do not believe? Believe in what? Faith comes by hearing the word of God. Believe in the proclamation of the Gospel; who Jesus said he is, and what He has done for YOU & ME. Do you believe this? Once the believing sinner is reconciled to the Father through Christ Alone! Then we have a loving relationship with the Father, to who we walk in the light; repentance, good works, good deeds, loving our neighbor and so forth. But without that reconciliation through Christ Alone to the Father, and being in a right standing before God first. Our repentance becomes a legalistic approach to attempt to gain favor with God to merit Salvation!

Am I denying repentance of the believer?

Hope this helps???

God Bless!!!

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

We are DEAD in sin, and desire cravings of the mind and flesh. And in bondage to sin, death and Satan.

Clarify if so, then who you are with in the "we are dead" ? Thanks !

 

[ladodgers6]

I actually agree with this (and I also understood it immediately). I know that I am a sinner before God in my own life (1 Timothy 1:15); and that He has appropriated salvation to me through His shed blood on the Cross of Calvary.

However, there is still the issue of the fact that in Romans 8:12-13, spiritual life and death is based on whether I walk according to the flesh or whether I walk according to the Spirit as a general rule. If I live according to the flesh, it is the sign that I am not born again (as I would be spiritually dead); and therefore not justified before the Lord.

Yes I agree that all believers must walk in holiness, because we are dead to sin, and alive in Christ. We are not antinomians (relating to the view that Christians are released by grace from the obligation of observing the moral law). And that is exactly what Paul is teaching these believers. That because they are under Grace, does not mean they can continue to sin! The Gospel is not a license to sin. BTW, Luther himself was the one who coined that term, 'Antinomianism'. He did a lot of preaching on this. So please do not misconstrue what I am saying.

However, this evangelical obedience is not the cause or ground of our Salvation. These are only fruits or signs, but not the cause. Would you agree with this?

Those who live and believe in Jesus shall never die (John 11:25-27), but those who walk and live according to the flesh will die (Romans 8:12-13).

And therefore, if I live and believe in Jesus I will not walk according to the flesh.

And therefore also, if I walk according to the flesh it is because I don't live and believe in Jesus.

See also and compare James 1:15-16 to John 11:25-27. When sin is fully grown, it brings forth death. But if I live and believe in Jesus I will never die.

And therefore, if I live and believe in Jesus, the Holy Spirit in me will be the restraint, and the safeguard, against sin becoming fully grown in my life.

When sin is fully GROWN, it brings forth death? The tiniest, teensy, itsy-bitsy, is mortal sin. John Calvin once wrote that repentance is the life of the believer.

And good O' James, is speaking to believers, and preaching against the same thing as Paul is in Romans 6, 9; Galatians 6, against 'Antinomianism'.

Do not err, beloved brethren.

I want to clarify that I call myself a sinner in much the same way that an alcoholic in AA still calls himself an alcoholic even after he has been clean and sober fifty years. It has to do with the fact that we all have a nature of flesh that is sinful (although, in contradiction to this, Ephesians 2:2-3 would tell us that we are no longer children of wrath by nature), not necessarily that we are doomed to walk sinfully for the rest of our lives (since Romans 8:12 tells us that we are not obligated to sin). Sin can be rendered dead (Romans 7:8, Romans 6:6-7, Galatians 5:24), so that it no longer has any authority over our behaviour.

Thank you for sharing this. I agree with all of this. I just do not believe that this is the cause or ground of my Salvation, dear brother! I consider everything as garbage, so that I can gain Christ, because I do not have a 'RIGHTEOUSNESS' of my OWN; what sinner does? I will only boast in the Lord. Because that is the only place for a sinner like me to find and get Mercy from God!

“The gospel is that you are more wicked than you dared to believe and more loved than you dared to hope – at the same time” – Luther

I have an excellent article on Ephesians that is a must read. If I post it, will you read it?

Hope this helps???

God Bless!!!

 

[justbyfaith]

We believe in the preaching of Law & Gospel in relation to Justification by Faith Alone! I believe I have answered this question multiple times. How can a sinner repent if they do not believe? Believe in what? Faith comes by hearing the word of God. Believe in the proclamation of the Gospel; who Jesus said he is, and what He has done for YOU & ME. Do you believe this? Once the believing sinner is reconciled to the Father through Christ Alone! Then we have a loving relationship with the Father, to who we walk in the light; repentance, good works, good deeds, loving our neighbor and so forth. But without that reconciliation through Christ Alone to the Father, and being in a right standing before God first. Our repentance becomes a legalistic approach to attempt to gain favor with God to merit Salvation!

Am I denying repentance of the believer?

Hope this helps???

God Bless!!!

What I am gathering from this is that things happen in this order: believing, repentance, salvation. Am I correct in assuming that this is your estimation?

 

[justbyfaith]

I am not trying to win an argument or win a debate with you. I am only sharing and answering your questions. We are DEAD in sin, and desire cravings of the mind and flesh. And in bondage to sin, death and Satan.

2 Cor. 4:4The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers so they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

In the Reformed Faith we believe that sinners do have a 'Free-Will'. Nobody forces or coerces sinners to sin. They sin willingly, because this is what they desire, want, love, and have appetite for. They are children of wrath. But once this disposition is changed, by the Holy Spirit regenerating their hearts of stone to hearts of flesh, and by the renewing of their minds, they can see, hear the truth of the Holy Spirit bearing witness to the truth of the Gospel, and they willingly believe and trust God!

So where is the permission? I am asking you?

We give God permission to make us righteous when we repent and surrender out lives to the Lord.

 

[justbyfaith]

deleted: repeated post.

 

[ladodgers6]

Why would I agree with such a statement when the Bible contradicts it in the verse that I referenced (2 Thessalonians 2:13)?

But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth.

I apologize I am not being clear. I am talking about the evangelical obedience of the believer. Not being Sanctified in Christ already!

30It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. 31Therefore, as it is written: “Let the one who boasts boast in the Lord.”

Who has become for US? Christ

What has he become for US? Wisdom, OUR Righteousness, OUR Sanctification. This is the Good News of the Gospel for the ungodly! Not for the righteous, good, or even godly. Not for the UNGODLY! (Romans 4:5). Its God Promise to Adam & Eve, and Abraham, that God will do for us, what we cannot do!

The Law says do! The Gospel says Done!

Hope this helps???

God Bless!

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

The Law says do! The Gospel says Done!

Hope this helps???

It doesn't help multitudes.

 

[ladodgers6]

Clarify if so, then who you are with in the "we are dead" ? Thanks !

As Paul says in Ephesians, we all once walked this way.

 

[justbyfaith]

Yes, when sin is fully GROWN (or, kjv, when it is finished), it brings forth death. For that is what it says in James 1:15.

 

[ladodgers6]

We give God permission to make us righteous when we repent and surrender out lives to the Lord.

Can you expound on this a bit more. If sinners are DEAD in sin. How can they give permission?

 

[ladodgers6]

It doesn't help multitudes.

I do not understand what you mean here?

 

[ladodgers6]

Yes, when sin is fully GROWN (or, kjv, when it is finished), it brings forth death. For that is what it says in James 1:15.

So the tiniest sin is not mortal sin?

 

[ladodgers6]

Actually, Hebrews 10:14, 1 John 3:9, and 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 would contradict you if you are claiming that we can't be perfect as those who are truly born again.

He has shed abroad the fulness of His love in our hearts (Romans 5:5, Ephesians 3:19); but of course we are still being transformed by the renewing of our minds (Romans 12:1-2) so that we are growing up into the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ, unto a perfect man (Ephesians 4:13).

So you are saying that believers are without sin, or don't sin at all?

 

[justbyfaith]

Yes I agree that all believers must walk in holiness, because we are dead to sin, and alive in Christ. We are not antinomians (relating to the view that Christians are released by grace from the obligation of observing the moral law). And that is exactly what Paul is teaching these believers. That because they are under Grace, does not mean they can continue to sin! The Gospel is not a license to sin. BTW, Luther himself was the one who coined that term, 'Antinomianism'. He did a lot of preaching on this. So please do not misconstrue what I am saying.

However, this evangelical obedience is not the cause or ground of our Salvation. These are only fruits or signs, but not the cause. Would you agree with this?

I would say that the decision to believe in Christ (and what he did for us on the Cross) and to change direction (from sin to righteousness) is the cause or ground of our salvation. Evangelical obedience is the result of these things.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

The Law says do! The Gospel says Done!
Hope this helps???

It doesn't help multitudes.

I do not understand what you mean here?

Yahweh's Word says TORAH over 100 times in the New Testament, more than in the Tanakh (Torah, Prophets and Psalms).....

He says why it is good , when it is used properly , as He Designed, and it leads people to Christ.

If the Gospel says DONE - who does it help ? Only those already saved - already DONE ? , which are few.

Torah and Gospel all together help few, as written in the GOSPEL !
(maybe in Torah also) i.e. there are multitudes not helped.

Jesus says whoever HEARS the Father's Word, and DO the Father's Word, THEY are HIS FAMILY. Whoever does not DO His Word, they are not.

 

[justbyfaith]

So the tiniest sin is not mortal sin?

There is a sin not unto death (1 John 5:16).

James 1:15 says specifically, Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

As Paul says in Ephesians, we all once walked this way.

So instead of being ALIVE , you ARE DEAD ? as asked in the post you replied to.

 

[justbyfaith]

So you are saying that believers are without sin, or don't sin at all?

We certainly are not without sin. We have sin dwelling within us. But that element (of sin) can be rendered dead (Romans 6:6-7, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has authority over our behaviour (Romans 8:12).

And I am saying that we can eventually come to a place in our hearts and minds wherein all is surrendered, and we sin not (1 John 3:6, 1 John 5:18) and that we can be in this state consistently for ever (1 John 2:17, 1 John 3:9) because we are abiding in Him (1 John 2:17).

And I am not saying that every believer has come to this place in their walk, but that it is a second benefit (2 Corinthians 1:15, 1 Thessalonians 5:24).