How do Eastern Orthodox feel about Sola Scriptura?

[Jackson Cooper]

My mother thinks that to be saved, you just believe. That's it.
Apparently Sola Scriptura is the main difference between Baptists and Catholics.
Paul said we are save by grace and not by works. James said faith is not enough and that we must have works. I get confused just from reading the Bible, while my mother says that salvation is the 'simplest thing in the world'.

So, what do Eastern Orthodox have to say on the idea that we are only judged by God's word and not man's?
My mother liked Jack Chick by the way.

 

[Grace2022]

Hi
Your mum is right. Mums always are.

 

[~Anastasia~]

There are a number of differences between Baptists and Catholics but that is not really our concern.

Fr. Andrew Stephen Damick says that what the Orthodox Church thinks about sola scriptura depends on what you mean by sola scriptura.

One explanation by Martin Luther that I read agreed essentially with Orthodoxy - that Scripture is of highest authority within the Church but must be interpreted in the light of how Christianity has always understood it.

Some people think it means "if it's not in the Bible, it is forbidden to do/can't be true". That is a very modern interpretation and not what Luther intended, nor can we agree with it.

Faith without works is dead. Even the demons believe and tremble.

We are indeed "saved" by faith alone, but that is not the end of the story. As long as we live, we should seek Christ and be progressively transformed to become more like Him by the grace of God, if we cooperate. One way God does this (and we cooperate) is through our works. As we do, so we become.

A person who claims to believe but refuses to repent from his sins and be transformed is not being healed/saved from his sins.

(Healed/saved is the same word in the NT Greek - sozo)

 

[Erik Nelson]

I understand there is no conflict between St. Paul & St. James.

Paul says people are saved by Grace.

James says people who are actually factually really truly honestly saved (by Grace) will manifest good words & good deeds. Recall, Jesus said "by their fruits shall you know them".

Paul speaks directly to Salvation. Straight to the topic of Salvation.

James speaks indirectly to Earthly signs of Salvation. How those who really have in actual fact received God's saving Grace, will then turn around and manifest God's saving Grace on Earth, in the form of good works & good deeds.

Paul is speaking about Salvation "from the inside", how only God's Grace acting within them can save them.

James is speaking about how actual factual Salvation looks "from the outside", in good works & deeds and "good fruits" by which others can feel some confidence in "knowing them" to be saved, Godly, goodly people.

 

[Petros2015]

(Healed/saved is the same word in the NT Greek - sozo)

Thank you - I did not know that!

 

[ArmyMatt]

Trinity is not found in Scripture and neither is sola Scriptura. to view it as Scripture alone has no Biblical basis. plus, whenever the NT refers to Scripture, it is referring to the Septuagint. so, not only is it not referring to any NT reference, it's also referring to the OT that most Protestants don't even use. you gotta wait 400 ish years til some Councils happened before Christianity had a codified NT.

 

[Petros2015]

A person who claims to believe but refuses to repent from his sins and be transformed is not being healed/saved from his sins.

Yup. 1st John 3:2-3

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Followed by

4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

I feel that abiding in him is a process. Seeing him and knowing him is a process, begun by him. I like this Internet Proverb:

An old Cherokee is teaching his grandson about life. “A fight is going on inside me,” he said to the boy. “It is a terrible fight and it is between two wolves. One is evil – he is anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego.” He continued, “The other is good – he is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, and faith. The same fight is going on inside you – and inside every other person, too.” The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather, “Which wolf will win?”
The old Cherokee simply replied, “The one you feed.”

The thing is, there were never two wolves with me before, there was only one. To be saved, to be born again, to be baptized with the Holy Spirit, to seek His indwelling is not (in my experience) a time to relax. I spent my whole life feeding the wrong wolf, I have to learn to starve it and feed the other. Even the knowledge of how to do that though, comes from God, some of it through personal revelation and scripture and some of it through the traditions and Sacraments of the Church which are good and beneficial and commended to all believers. It is very much like a patient seeing a doctor. He is diagnosed and given a cure. If he believes in the Doctor and follows his instructions, his disease will go into remission and he will live, though he will be in treatment his whole life, getting better and better instead of worse and worse. The 'works' that James speak of naturally follow from someone who is getting better and better, to the glory of God who is healing them. Someone who is getting worse and worse also has 'works', but they are works of a different sort.

John 3:19-21

19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Well said. And good Scripture references.

I've always loved that Cherokee proverb.

And I also especially like your statement that someone who is getting worse also has "works" ... just of a different sort.

The Protestant idea of not having "works salvation" somehow meaning "doing nothing at all" just doesn't make sense. We spend our whole lives "doing" ... actions of one kind or another. And we ARE shaped by what we do, say, and think. Strange that they have twisted even Luther's solas to mean this.

Fr. Andrew Stephen Damick did quite an interesting teaching on the solas , what Luther meant by them, how they compare to Orthodoxy, and what Protestants today (especially those of the radical reformation) tend to think they mean. It reinforced my observation that traditional Lutheranism, while not identical to Orthodoxy, has much more in common with us than it does with, say, evangelical Protestantism. And the evangelicals use Luther to argue their points.

Yup. 1st John 3:2-3

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Followed by

4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

I feel that abiding in him is a process. Seeing him and knowing him is a process, begun by him. I like this Internet Proverb:

An old Cherokee is teaching his grandson about life. “A fight is going on inside me,” he said to the boy. “It is a terrible fight and it is between two wolves. One is evil – he is anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego.” He continued, “The other is good – he is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, and faith. The same fight is going on inside you – and inside every other person, too.” The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather, “Which wolf will win?”
The old Cherokee simply replied, “The one you feed.”

The thing is, there were never two wolves with me before, there was only one. To be saved, to be born again, to be baptized with the Holy Spirit, to seek His indwelling is not (in my experience) a time to relax. I spent my whole life feeding the wrong wolf, I have to learn to starve it and feed the other. Even the knowledge of how to do that though, comes from God, some of it through personal revelation and scripture and some of it through the traditions and Sacraments of the Church which are good and beneficial and commended to all believers. It is very much like a patient seeing a doctor. He is diagnosed and given a cure. If he believes in the Doctor and follows his instructions, his disease will go into remission and he will live, though he will be in treatment his whole life, getting better and better instead of worse and worse. The 'works' that James speak of naturally follow from someone who is getting better and better, to the glory of God who is healing them. Someone who is getting worse and worse also has 'works', but they are works of a different sort.

John 3:19-21

19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

 

[buzuxi02]

So, what do Eastern Orthodox have to say on the idea that we are only judged by God's word and not man's?

For those are slothful who, having it in their power to provide themselves with proper proofs for the divine Scriptures from the Scriptures themselves, select only what contributes to their own pleasures. And those have a craving for glory who voluntarily evade, by arguments of a diverse sort, the things delivered by the blessed apostles and teachers, which are wedded to inspired words; opposing the divine tradition by human teachings,in order to establish their heresy,

​

Those, then, that adhere to impious words, and dictate them to others, inasmuch as they do not make a right but a perverse use of the divine words, neither themselves enter into the kingdom of heaven, nor permit those whom they have deluded to attain the truth. But not having the key of entrance, but a false counterfeit key, by which they do not enter in as we enter in, through the tradition of the Lord, by drawing aside the curtain. But they bursting through the side-door, and digging clandestinely through the wall of the Church, and stepping over the truth, they constitute themselves the Mystagogues of the soul of the impious (Clemet of Alexandria stromata bk7 ch16 &17)

According to all the Fathers, Sola Scripture is man made.

 

[ArmyMatt]

plus historically it doesn't make sense. it was about 17ish years from Pentecost to St Matthew writing his Gospel in Aramaic, which was probably the earliest writing of the NT. so one must ask how did the Church function during that time if sola Scriptura is true?

 

[buzuxi02]

My mother thinks that to be saved, you just believe. That's it.

This is inaccurate from a christian point of view. Yes God can save whomever he wishes. But simply believing in Jesus is not the mechanism he gave to christians

2 But when they believed Philip as he preached good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. 13 Even Simon himself believed, and after being baptized he continued with Philip. And seeing signs and great miracles performed, he was amazed.
14 Now when the apostles at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent to them Peter and John, 15 who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16 for he had not yet fallen on any of them, but they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then they laid their hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit. 18 Now when Simon saw that the Spirit was given through the laying on of the apostles' hands, he offered them money..... (Acts 8)

As you can see from the above 'believing' does not give you the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, Protestantism believes it spontaneously comes upon you, this was never known. The Holy Spirit is imparted through the appointed elders of the Church. Paul reaffirms this in ( 1 Tim 4:14 ) . In fact St Cyril of Jerusalem in his catechetical lectures explains this:

3...For as the Bread of the Eucharist, after the invocation of the Holy Ghost, is mere bread no longer , but the Body of Christ, so also this holy ointment is no more simple ointment, nor (so to say) common, after invocation, but it is Christ's gift of grace, and, by the advent of the Holy Ghost, is made fit to impart His Divine Nature. Which ointment is symbolically applied to your forehead and your other senses ; and while your body is anointed with the visible ointment, your soul is sanctified by the Holy and life-giving Spirit.

5. Having been counted worthy of this Holy Chrism, you are called Christians, verifying the name also by your new birth. For before you were deemed worthy of this grace, you had properly no right to this title, but were advancing on your way towards being Christians. (Lecture 21)

 

[truefiction1]

My mother thinks that to be saved, you just believe. That's it.
Apparently Sola Scriptura is the main difference between Baptists and Catholics.
Paul said we are save by grace and not by works. James said faith is not enough and that we must have works. I get confused just from reading the Bible, while my mother says that salvation is the 'simplest thing in the world'.

So, what do Eastern Orthodox have to say on the idea that we are only judged by God's word and not man's?
My mother liked Jack Chick by the way.

Sola Scriptura is the doctrine that has been/is being produced as the result of the accursed "Logos bias" that exists in "this world" due to the ancestral sin of mankind. This is the form it takes in the Protestant reformation. It's original form appeared in the Church as the Roman doctrine of papal supremacy/infallibility. The Logos bias made it necessary for their to be a "visible Logos" in "this world" to ensure that the Logos could guarantee dogmatic truth. The Pope is thought to be this "visible Logos": the vicar of Christ, who guarantees Christ's presence in "this world".

The Reformation's dogmatic manifestation of the "Logos bias" was/is a natural reaction to the Roman manifestation of it, and it has proven to be even more pernicious toward the power of the Gospel in this world than the first one was.

Orthodox ecclesiological doctrine denies both the heresy of papal supremacy and sola Scriptura, by always striving to give equal importance with the Logos (Christ) to the work of the Holy Spirit within the Orthodox Church. It is the Holy Spirit breathing in the Church Who makes Christ's presence with us a mystical reality. It is not the Pope, or the Scripture that leads us into all Truth, but God Himself: God the Holy Spirit.

 

[Jackson Cooper]

There are a number of differences between Baptists and Catholics but that is not really our concern.

Fr. Andrew Stephen Damick says that what the Orthodox Church thinks about sola scriptura depends on what you mean by sola scriptura.

One explanation by Martin Luther that I read agreed essentially with Orthodoxy - that Scripture is of highest authority within the Church but must be interpreted in the light of how Christianity has always understood it.

Some people think it means "if it's not in the Bible, it is forbidden to do/can't be true". That is a very modern interpretation and not what Luther intended, nor can we agree with it.

Faith without works is dead. Even the demons believe and tremble.

We are indeed "saved" by faith alone, but that is not the end of the story. As long as we live, we should seek Christ and be progressively transformed to become more like Him by the grace of God, if we cooperate. One way God does this (and we cooperate) is through our works. As we do, so we become.

A person who claims to believe but refuses to repent from his sins and be transformed is not being healed/saved from his sins.

(Healed/saved is the same word in the NT Greek - sozo)

I wish I knew Greek. By the way, how is the King James Version different from the Original Greek? My mother is also KJV onlyist.

 

[Jackson Cooper]

plus historically it doesn't make sense. it was about 17ish years from Pentecost to St Matthew writing his Gospel in Aramaic, which was probably the earliest writing of the NT. so one must ask how did the Church function during that time if sola Scriptura is true?

My mother thinks Orthodox don't value the Bible highly.
I wonder how I could at least convince her that Eastern Orthodoxy isn't the 'Church of Satan' as she called it. She refers to Orthodoxy and Roman Catholics that way.

 

[Erik Nelson]

plus historically it doesn't make sense. it was about 17ish years from Pentecost to St Matthew writing his Gospel in Aramaic, which was probably the earliest writing of the NT. so one must ask how did the Church function during that time if sola Scriptura is true?

so St Matthew wrote Aramaic Matthew in about 50 AD, around the time of the Jerusalem Council?

 

[truefiction1]

My mother thinks Orthodox don't value the Bible highly.
I wonder how I could at least convince her that Eastern Orthodoxy isn't the 'Church of Satan' as she called it. She refers to Orthodoxy and Roman Catholics that way.

The Bible is read throughout the entire year in the daily cycle of worship services. The Orthodox faithful have always been taught to, and strive to read Scripture everyday, because this is the best way that we can come to know the will of God so that we can do the will of God at all times in our lives. This is a critical component of our inheritance as our Lord's followers. The idea that we don't know the Bible is extremely erred.

 

[Erik Nelson]

...Orthodox ecclesiological doctrine denies both the heresy of papal supremacy and sola Scriptura, by always striving to give equal importance with the Logos (Christ) to the work of the Holy Spirit within the Orthodox Church. It is the Holy Spirit breathing in the Church Who makes Christ's presence with us a mystical reality. It is not the Pope, or the Scripture that leads us into all Truth, but God Himself: God the Holy Spirit.

that is very clear and honest, thanks

so, the Orthodox Church asserts a "direct line to heaven", one that bypasses both pope and scripture?

I have always understood Protestants to assert much the same, "a direct line to God in heaven" that bypasses papal hierarchy and guides them... to a truer understanding of Scripture.

Orthodox perceive "a direct line to God in heaven" that bypasses papal hierarchy and guides them... to a truer and fuller experience of Christ's mystical Presence.

 

[ArmyMatt]

My mother thinks Orthodox don't value the Bible highly.
I wonder how I could at least convince her that Eastern Orthodoxy isn't the 'Church of Satan' as she called it. She refers to Orthodoxy and Roman Catholics that way.

90 some-odd percent of the Liturgy is straight from the Bible and our primary hymnal is the Psalter.

 

[ArmyMatt]

so St Matthew wrote Aramaic Matthew in about 50 AD, around the time of the Jerusalem Council?

yep, that was when St Paul started writing too, nearly a generation after Pentecost and 350 years before the NT accepted codification

 

[FenderTL5]

My mother thinks Orthodox don't value the Bible highly..

That's odd. The treatment of the scriptures in the evangelical (Baptist) churches of my past pales in comparison to the honor placed on them in Orthodoxy.