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How do creationists test their ideas?

Discussion in 'Creation & Evolution' started by pitabread, Apr 28, 2019.

  1. Kylie

    Kylie Atheist and Proud

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    If the Bible was correct, then all animals would display evidence of a genetic bottleneck caused by Noah's flood. There is no evidence of such a universal bottleneck. Therefore there was no flood and the Bible is wrong.

    Done.
     
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  2. AV1611VET

    AV1611VET SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE Supporter

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    No they wouldn't.

    Not if the Bible is correct.

    The Bible has God controlling every facet of the situation.
     
  3. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Regular Member

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    Sorry, that is a claim that you need to support. Otherwise my little friend refutes your claim:

    That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

    In other words arguments handwaved in can be refuted with a handwave

    :wave:
     
  4. pitabread

    pitabread Well-Known Member

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    Translation: deception.
     
  5. AV1611VET

    AV1611VET SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE Supporter

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    The premise is as stated by Kylie:

    "If the Bible is correct ..."

    So support is not an issue here.
     
  6. AV1611VET

    AV1611VET SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE Supporter

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    Either way, Kylie is wrong.
     
  7. essentialsaltes

    essentialsaltes Stranger in a Strange Land

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    The Bible does not mention any miraculous injection of additional genetic diversity. So the assumption of "God controlling every facet of the situation" in this context goes beyond the text of the Bible.
     
  8. AV1611VET

    AV1611VET SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE Supporter

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    What's this blessing then?

    Genesis 9:1 And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.

    And who said anything about "genetic diversity"?

    In any event, if the Bible is right, then God did it.
     
  9. essentialsaltes

    essentialsaltes Stranger in a Strange Land

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    Being fruitful and multiplying would not erase the evidence of a genetic bottleneck.

    Kylie's comment about genetic bottleneck is related to that. For your reply to be relevant, it has to address this point.
     
  10. AV1611VET

    AV1611VET SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE Supporter

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    The Bible is correct as It stands, and anyone who says otherwise is wrong.

    Especially if all they have to go on is science.

    That's how I define "faith":

    Believing something, even if science says otherwise.
     
  11. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Regular Member

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    Quoting out of context is almost always dishonest. That was a conditional statement that has been refuted by reality.
     
  12. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Regular Member

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    People only use "faith" when they do not have a valid reason for a belief. It is a negative and not a positive.
     
  13. Kylie

    Kylie Atheist and Proud

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    And yet he couldn't get it done by just snapping his almighty fingers? Seems like he went to an AWFUL lot of trouble to make it look like it never happened, even though he made sure it was "documented" (to use a term you seem to like).

    Funny, that, isn't it? And, strangely enough, that's exactly what we'd expect to see if the Bible is just a bunch of stories people wrote down and never really happened.
     
  14. Kylie

    Kylie Atheist and Proud

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    No, I'm not wrong.

    If the Bible is correct, we should see evidence of a genetic bottleneck. There is no evidence of a genetic bottleneck, therefore the Bible is not correct.

    You want to have your cake and eat it too, so you have to perform all these hand waving excuses that don't make sense. If God wants us to know about it, why did he remove the genetic evidence? If he wants it to remain hidden, why did he allow the story in the Bible to remain? Why wouldn't an omnipotent God make sure all the evidence available to us is consistent?

    The simplest explanation is that it never happened, and what is in the Bible is just a story. The people who wrote it (or first started telling it) had no way to alter reality to make reality fit their story, and besides, the concept of a genetic bottleneck is something they couldn't even comprehend. And now we have reality telling one story and the Bible telling another story. And guess what happens when reality and belief contradict? You have to change your beliefs, because you sure can't change reality.
     
  15. AV1611VET

    AV1611VET SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE Supporter

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    We've been through all this before, haven't we?
    Then no one would have had time to pray the sinner's prayer.
    QV please: My Sanitary Challenge
    No.
    Do you think God left a scar behind when He took a rib from Adam?
     
  16. AV1611VET

    AV1611VET SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE Supporter

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    Remove what genetic evidence?

    God drowned everyone on Earth except for eight people.

    Then He blessed those eight people and charged them to replenish the Earth.

    Genesis 9:1 And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.

    Without that blessing Earth would have never recovered from its population bottleneck.

    Interesting that you see it as He trying to hide something.
     
  17. VirOptimus

    VirOptimus A nihilist who cares.

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    Its one thing to have "faith" where there is no clear answer, to questions like "why are we here", "what is the meaning of life", "where does morality come from".

    But scientific questions arent like that, we do know quite a lot about physical reality and trying to argue against it is quite dumb.
     
  18. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Regular Member

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    The genetic evidence that your myth tell us would exist. There would only be the genetic evidence of five people. That of Noah and his wife and the wives of his three sons.

    Tell me, is the myth of waking up in a seedy hotel bathroom in a tub full of ice and missing a kidney a real worry? Your myth says that it should be.
     
  19. AV1611VET

    AV1611VET SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE Supporter

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    I'll ask a second time:

    What genetic evidence?

    You want genetic evidence of Adam, Seth, Enoch, Methuselah ... who?

    The Nephilim?

    Frankly, I don't understand what it is you're expecting to find; and I suspect you guys don't either.
     
  20. VirOptimus

    VirOptimus A nihilist who cares.

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    We dont expect to find anything as it didnt happen.
     
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