How do Creationists explain vestigal organs?

USincognito · Oct 11, 2012

Did anyone else watch "How the earth made man" on History channel tonight?

It delved into all sorts of evolutionary vestiges we possess because of our long history on this planet.

OllieFranz · Oct 11, 2012

USincognito said:
Did anyone else watch "How the earth made man" on History channel tonight?

It delved into all sorts of evolutionary vestiges we possess because of our long history on this planet.

I read this post just in time to set up to record the second showing. Thanks! I'll watch it tomorrow.

Split Rock · Oct 12, 2012

USincognito said:
Did anyone else watch "How the earth made man" on History channel tonight?

It delved into all sorts of evolutionary vestiges we possess because of our long history on this planet.

I like How the Earth Was Made, because it shows how the process of science works, and not just the final conclusions (some creationists here could benefit from watching it). I'm a bit surprised that they got into biology, however... its usually about geology.

USincognito · Oct 12, 2012

Split Rock said:
I like How the Earth Was Made, because it shows how the process of science works, and not just the final conclusions (some creationists here could benefit from watching it). I'm a bit surprised that they got into biology, however... its usually about geology.

That was/is a great series.

This show is a bit different connecting events on earth with evolution. Basically putting the "natural" in natural selection. Worth a watch and I'm sure they will be airing it again.

And just a heads up for folks, in November History will be airing "The Story of Mankind" (IIRC) a 6 part series recounting human history from the origins of life to today. Check local listings.

OllieFranz · Oct 12, 2012

USincognito said:
And just a heads up for folks, in November History will be airing "The Story of Mankind" (IIRC) a 6 part series recounting human history from the origins of life to today. Check local listings.

The exact title is "Mankind: The Story of All of Us"

I have now watched "How the Earth Made Man" that I recorded overnight.

So to recap.

Hiccups and pushups show that we evolved from fish. Earbones and warm-bloodedness show we evolved from a big lizard that did not become a dinosaur. Hair and "goosebumps" show we evolved from shrew-like burrowing creatures that survived the death of the dinosaurs. Aggression and a preference for open landscapes over jungle scenes show we evolved from primates

Big brains and deja vu show how we survived the last great Ice Age. And disgust and DNA uniformity show we were almost totally wiped out at that time.

SkyWriting · Oct 12, 2012

Crudo89 said:
Says the expert in biology......

In context, the result is a question.

SkyWriting · Oct 12, 2012

Split Rock said:
This sounds like denial to me. "I don't believe in vestigial organs, therefore there are no vestigial organs." (paraphrasing)
Still waiting for the list of coccyx "multiple uses."

Waiting for me to do your homework? You know my stand on that.

I think the discussion requires a redefinition of vestigial because no one has done it well.
Given: that "vestigial" means "a feature or organ that no longer contributes to the well-being of species and therefore must have been developed by a prior species" are there any such features?

I'm attempting to rule out "nipples" and digestive features that could easily be fully human.

SkyWriting · Oct 12, 2012

OllieFranz said:
The exact title is "Mankind: The Story of All of Us"
Hiccups and pushups show that we evolved from fish.

Given the information that premature babies hiccup a lot, the hiccup is likely the first breath of air a baby takes or aids in lung expansion before birth. Nothing to do with any other species at all.

OllieFranz · Oct 12, 2012

SkyWriting said:
Given the information that premature babies hiccup a lot, the hiccup is likely the first breath of air a baby takes or aids in lung expansion before birth. Nothing to do with any other species at all.

Except that, according to the show, hiccups close off the lungs and prevent breathing. They are of no use to any creature other than one with both gills and lungs, which needs a mechanism for switching from air breathing to water breathing without dying from drowning or pneumonia because the lungs filled up with water.

SkyWriting · Oct 12, 2012

Loudmouth said:
Evidence please.

It's the other way around. Most such features have been found false.
If you like to produce a list of 86 to 180 vestigial organs we will look them over one by one.

Split Rock · Oct 12, 2012

SkyWriting said:
Waiting for me to do your homework? You know my stand on that.

No. I'm waiting for you to back up your assertion. Guess its not going to happen, huh? To quote my buddy AVET, "I'll take your post with a grain of salt, then."

SkyWriting said:
I think the discussion requires a redefinition of vestigial because no one has done it well.
Given: that "vestigial" means "a feature or organ that no longer contributes to the well-being of species and therefore must have been developed by a prior species" are there any such features?

Sure. We'll just "re-define" whatever terms you guys don't like. NOT.

SkyWriting said:
I'm attempting to rule out "nipples" and digestive features that could easily be fully human.

Knock yourself out.

SkyWriting · Oct 12, 2012

OllieFranz said:
Except that, according to the show, hiccups close off the lungs and prevent breathing. They are of no use to any creature other than one with both gills and lungs, which needs a mechanism for switching from air breathing to water breathing without dying from drowning or pneumonia because the lungs filled up with water.

Valuable to fetuses. A good breathing exercise for a human in liquid.
They help control the heart rate. It has nothing to do with amphibians in the least.
You might as well guess the devil spirits are trying to get in the babies mouth before they are born.
If one avoids the talkorigins type of website trash, the real answers just pop up in seconds.

What Causes Fetal Hiccups? | LIVESTRONG.COM

Split Rock · Oct 12, 2012

SkyWriting said:
It's the other way around. Most such features have been found false.
If you like to produce a list of 86 to 180 vestigial organs we will look them over one by one.

Why don't we start with the coccyx, then. What are its God-designed functions and or uses?

Metal Minister · Oct 12, 2012

Split Rock said:
Why don't we start with the coccyx, then. What are its God-designed functions and or uses?

Blind post*
The coccyx serves as an important anchor point for the muscles that hold the anus in place.

OllieFranz · Oct 12, 2012

Metal Minister said:
Blind post*
The coccyx serves as an important anchor point for the muscles that hold the anus in place.

Something about the way you phrased that made me think of the old joke about the guy born with a golden screw in his navel. I guess now we know why he needed the screw.

SkyWriting · Oct 12, 2012

Split Rock said:
Why don't we start with the coccyx, then. What are its God-designed functions and or uses?

It protects the spinal cord from injury. Like your skull protects your brain.

It is:

Commonly called the “tail bone”.

But when humans occasionally have a "tail" is does not include the "tailbone."

Nerves exiting this area affect both muscular structures as well as internal organs and organ systems. Muscles of the buttocks, hips, thigh and leg
Organs and tissues include the rectum and portions of the pelvic tissues.
The sacrum forms joints with the pelvis, aiding in stabilization of the pelvic girdle. Problems that may develop include sacroiliac instability, hemorrhoids, scoliosis and pain when sitting.
The sacrum and coccyx are commonly referred to as your "base bone" or "tail bone". As a child the sacrum consists of five individual bones and the coccyx is made up of three to five bones. In the adult, the sacral segments and the coccygeal segments fuse so that each of these two bones are solid singular bones. The sacrum forms joints with each of the hip bones and helps to stabilize the pelvis.

The nerves that exit the sacrum and coccyx go to the tissues and organs in that area. These include the muscles of the buttocks and hips as well as portions of the thigh and leg.

In addition, organs and tissues such as the rectum and portions of pelvic tissues are also innervated by these nerves. As a result, some of the problems that may occur as a result of subluxations here could be sacroiliac conditions, hemorrhoids, scoliosis, and pain when sitting.
Christopher Chiropractic Center LLP

The rest you kin do yourself.

Loudmouth · Oct 12, 2012

SkyWriting said:
It protects the spinal cord from injury.

Yes, just like the typewriter acts as a paperweight. Vestigial does not mean without function. How many times have we gone over that?

Nerves exiting this area affect both muscular structures as well as internal organs and organ systems.

These are rudimentary functions. The tailbone is still vestigial.

Loudmouth · Oct 12, 2012

Metal Minister said:
Blind post*
The coccyx serves as an important anchor point for the muscles that hold the anus in place.

Vestigial does not mean without function. An organ can have function and still be vestigial just as a typewriter can act as a paperweight and still be broken. The human coccyx does not support a tail, therefore it is vestigial.

Loudmouth · Oct 12, 2012

SkyWriting said:
It's the other way around. Most such features have been found false.

No, they haven't. Vestigial does not mean without function. Finding a function for a vestigial organ does not refute the vestigial argument. The human coccyx does not support a tail, therefore it is vestigial. The functions it does have are rudimentary functions in the same way that a typewriter acting as a paperweight is a rudimentary function for the typewriter.

You also made the claim that none of the human ancestors had tails. Still waiting for the evidence to back up this claim. Where is it?

Loudmouth · Oct 12, 2012

SkyWriting said:
Waiting for me to do your homework? You know my stand on that.

I think the discussion requires a redefinition of vestigial because no one has done it well.
Given: that "vestigial" means "a feature or organ that no longer contributes to the well-being of species and therefore must have been developed by a prior species" are there any such features?

Vestigial means having a rudimentary function compared to the same homologous structure in other species. In other species, the coccyx acts as the support for the tail. It does not have that function in humans. It is vestigial.

How do Creationists explain vestigal organs?

a post by Alan Smithee

Senior Member

Conflation of Blathers

a post by Alan Smithee

Senior Member

The Librarian

The Librarian

The Librarian

Senior Member

The Librarian

Conflation of Blathers

The Librarian

Conflation of Blathers

New Year, Still Old School!

Senior Member

The Librarian

Contributor

Contributor

Contributor

Contributor

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency