How do creationists answer these questions: Are you an Ape? A Mammal? A Vertebrate?

Split Rock

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Sure I do, do you? because every single test the +/- was no greater than 2910 years, not hundreds of thousands, not millions, but single solitary years. most were +/- 120 years.

Yes, two chairmen erased the results from their website, but alas, they couldn't erase the video excerpts from that conference. Sad, sad, sad, that one must delete evidence in order to attempt to keep it from reaching the public, all in effort to "save" a theory long dead.

Carbon-14 dated dinosaur bones - under 40,000 years old - YouTube

Carbon-14 dating dinosaur bones

CARBON DATING OF FOSSILS

Your problem is that if they were the age you claim, there should be no carbon 14 present, yet not only was it present in sufficient quantities for testing, but soft tissue itself has been found, to which your only explanation is well, umm, well, umm.

Just admit you haven't a clue and your theory of age is as worthless as is your theory of evolution.


How could that be indeed, unless of course your story of age is just that, a "story"

My apologies.. you did not mention any errors in your previous posts.
A few points:
1. All because they made an effort to eliminate contaminents does not mean they succeeded.
2. This was not peer-reviewed research.
3. Papers presented at conferences like this are preliminary in nature.
4. These results need to be repeated in other labs in order for us to have any confidence in them.
5. I find it disturbing that the video was cut off once questions started being asked at the end of the talk. Could it be that an audience member had a good point to make?
6. I find it funny that you guys cling to a single report like this and ignore the preponderance of the evidence, just because the former seems to support your dogma and the latter does not.

One more...

7. If it was removed from the website, there may well have been a good reason that the authors had it removed.
 
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Justatruthseeker

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No, pointless because they literally have nothing to do with the point at hand.

Only in your own mind, they just destroy every theory of how you think life started and evolution happened. But better to believe in Fairie Dust than the facts if you are an evolutionist, else you would have nothing left to try to uphold a theory dead long ago. A theory that has gone extinct.
 
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lasthero

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Only in your own mind, they just destroy every theory of how you think life started and evolution happened. But better to believe in Fairie Dust than the facts if you are an evolutionist, else you would have nothing left to try to uphold a theory dead long ago. A theory that has gone extinct.

Cool story,bro.
 
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lasthero

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Don't like that answer? Tough, talk to your evolutionists then and tell them to get the order straightened out. Then we will have a consistent definition of kind. So it is family in some, class or clade in others and phylum in still others.


So, basically, it has no definition, and you just change it around to suit your limp an flaccid arguments. Pretty much what I thought.
 
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Split Rock

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Crab are of the kind Malacostraca.

Once again, no family involved so one must resort to class again because your system is not consistent.

Mollusks you have no class or family for, only phylum, superphylum and kingdom.Once again, no consistency whatsoever.And your lack of consistency is why one single answer can never be given, because you yourself can provide no single definition for anything.

Don't like that answer? Tough, talk to your evolutionists then and tell them to get the order straightened out. Then we will have a consistent definition of kind. So it is family in some, class or clade in others and phylum in still others.

I must wait until I stop laughing, because you can't even get your own definitions worked out, it is no wonder you are confused about kinds.

Wow. Just weird. All because the common term "crab" does not represent a monophyletic grouping, you think we are inconsistant??
Here is the breakdown for Callinectes sapidus (Blue Crab):
Kingdom: Animalia
Phylum: Arthropoda
Subphylum: Crustacea
Class: Malacostraca
Order: Decapoda
Infraorder: Brachyura
Family: Portunidae
Genus: Callinectes
Species: C. sapidus
Callinectes sapidus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Mollusks are a phylum, just like Arthropods. What is the problem? Where is the lack of consistancy?
 
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Justatruthseeker

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My apologies.. you did not mention any errors in your previous posts.
A few points:
1. All because they made an effort to eliminate contaminents does not mean they succeeded.

Nor does it mean they did not, when every single result was consistent except for those the lab reported as contaminated. Apparently they knew which ones were good samples and which were not, unlike you who chooses to throw out everything, simply because it disagrees with your religious beliefs of evolution.

2. This was not peer-reviewed research.

And yet no evolutionist in the real world is challenging these results by conducting their own studies. Only one group has attempted it, but sadly they got the exact same results, and chose NOT to publish their papers for that reason. Funny how that works isn't it. Evolutionists only seem to publish what seems to support their theory, unlike a true scientists which accepts the facts and alters their theory.

You mean publish papers that say a "paucity of evidence" instead of saying no evidence at all?

Yes you just make up stories when you lack evidence, and publish those.
From time to time evolutionists announce with great fanfare that they have gotten a colony of bacteria to eat something they could not eat before, or some other small variation. These changes are always below the family level on the diagram. If evolution were true, there would have been ancestors and transitional creatures between each genus, family, order, class, and phylum in the layers below the Cambrian Explosion. But there are no fossils for any of these. What to do? A team of evolutionists solved this problem using their most effective tool - storytelling. First they assumed evolution occurred. Then they estimated how fast it should have happened, and decided that the creatures in the Cambrian Explosion had been evolving for over 250 million years before any showed up in the rocks as fossils! "We estimate that the last common ancestor of all living animals arose nearly 800 million years ago and that the stem lineages leading to most extant phyla had evolved by the end of the Ediacaran (541 million years ago)." Yes, millions of generations of all kinds of creatures all over the world living, dying, evolving without leaving any trace of their existence. Not only that, "from the early Paleozoic onward there is little addition of new phyla and classes". "Little high-level morphological innovation occurred during the subsequent 500 million years". Their story was published in the prestigious journal Science, and was hailed as having solved a mystery challenging evolution theory all the way back to Darwin. --Erwin, Douglas H., Marc Laflamme, Sarah M. Tweedt, Erik A. Sperling, Davide Pisani, Kevin J. Peterson. 2011. The Cambrian Conundrum: Early Divergence and Later Ecological Success in the Early History of Animals. Science, Vol. 334, pp. 1091-1097.

Good story tho, too bad it lacks one shred of evidence to back it up, while the evidence does contradict it since no progenitors exist in the fossil record anywhere.


3. Papers presented at conferences like this are preliminary in nature.

And hence our challenge for evolutionists to test themselves. Which you can be sure has been done to save theory. Yet not even preliminary results from your evolutionists in over 5 years, they are strangely quiet on this matter.


4. These results need to be repeated in other labs in order for us to have any confidence in them.

Agreed, so why are they not doing it, since they claim the results to be incorrect? So far only one has been bold enough to try and did not get the results they wanted to see.


5. I find it disturbing that the video was cut off once questions started being asked at the end of the talk. Could it be that an audience member had a good point to make?

Could it be you are grasping at straws?


6. I find it funny that you guys cling to a single report like this and ignore the preponderance of the evidence, just because the former seems to support your dogma and the latter does not.

I find it funny how you ignore any evidence that doesn't fit your dogma, while claiming the evidence does, when the preponderance of evidence once again falsifies it.

Kind after kind, you have observed nothing else. EVER. You have not one shred of evidence that species evolve into other species, but you do have DNA data that shows that only what exists in the genome already becomes dominate or repressed, and nothing new is ever added.

Lack of transitory species.

Sudden appearance of full-blown animals in every single epoch.

Not one single progenitor to the pre-cambrian explosion (of all fully formed life). But "major transitions in biological evolution show the same pattern of sudden emergence of diverse forms at a new level of complexity." "The principal 'types' seem to appear rapidly and fully equipped with the signature features of the respective new level of biological organization. No intermediate 'grades' or intermediate forms between different types are detectable." Koonin, Eugene V. 20 August 2007. The Biological Big Bang model for the major transitions in evolution. Biology Direct, Vol. 2:21, pp. 1-17.

All fossils are of complete animals and plants, not works in progress "under construction". That is why we can give each distinct plant or animal a name. If evolution's continuous morphing were really going on, every fossil would show change underway throughout the creature, with parts in various stages of completion.

limits of variation shatter your theory. Natural Limits to Variation, or Reversion to the Mean: Is Evolution Just Extrapolation by Another Name? - Evolution News & Views

The only evidence that backs evolution is Fairie Dust. That's why you use it.
 
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Justatruthseeker

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Wow. Just weird. All because the common term "crab" does not represent a monophyletic grouping, you think we are inconsistant??
Here is the breakdown for Callinectes sapidus (Blue Crab):
Kingdom: Animalia
Phylum: Arthropoda
Subphylum: Crustacea
Class: Malacostraca
Order: Decapoda
Infraorder: Brachyura
Family: Portunidae
Genus: Callinectes
Species: C. sapidus
Callinectes sapidus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Mollusks are a phylum, just like Arthropods. What is the problem? Where is the lack of consistancy?

Malacostraca - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Your classes are all contained in the kind malacostraca, just as all cats are contained in the kind Felidae.

Your phylums are useless classifications, invented for the sole purpose of trying to uphold evolution. Yet dogs and cats are NOT of the same kind, regardless that they may contain tails and hollow spinal cords, but so do fishes. To which you classify all as chordata, which includes just about every animal in existence. useless.

Felidae is the only useful classification of cats, just as canidae are the only useful classification of dogs. if I tell you my chordata plays all day, to which of the billions of animals am I referring to?

You classify Lions and Tigers as separate species, yet they interbreed, violating your own definition of species. Jaguar breed with Ocelot, yet you classify them as separate. Inconsistency in every classification system you have. You can trace breeding lineage from house cat to tiger, yet insist tigers are separate species. They are not, they are different breeds of the same species, felidae.

Because once again you have a species problem and don't know where to classify half the animals in existence.

Species problem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

When in doubt, make up a name and throw it in the classification system.
 
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Split Rock

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Nor does it mean they did not, when every single result was consistent except for those the lab reported as contaminated. Apparently they knew which ones were good samples and which were not, unlike you who chooses to throw out everything, simply because it disagrees with your religious beliefs of evolution.
I do not throw any evidence out, do not think you know me.. you do not.
There you go again with rhetoric about "religious beliefs of evolution." I do not happen to follow any religion, thank you very much.


And yet no evolutionist in the real world is challenging these results by conducting their own studies. Only one group has attempted it, but sadly they got the exact same results, and chose NOT to publish their papers for that reason. Funny how that works isn't it. Evolutionists only seem to publish what seems to support their theory, unlike a true scientists which accepts the facts and alters their theory.
I don't know if any one is doing research on this or not. It is not my field. It is telling, however, that his research paper was withdrawn and never published.

And hence our challenge for evolutionists to test themselves. Which you can be sure has been done to save theory. Yet not even preliminary results from your evolutionists in over 5 years, they are strangely quiet on this matter.
Again, no peer reviewed paper was published on this research and I find that telling. Why should others do research to test claims that have not passed peer review?

Agreed, so why are they not doing it, since they claim the results to be incorrect? So far only one has been bold enough to try and did not get the results they wanted to see.
Reference please.

Could it be you are grasping at straws?
Me? You are the one grasping at a non-peer reviewed preliminary report, which was withdrawn and never published. Pot meet kettle.


I find it funny how you ignore any evidence that doesn't fit your dogma, while claiming the evidence does, when the preponderance of evidence once again falsifies it.
No it does not.

Kind after kind, you have observed nothing else. EVER. You have not one shred of evidence that species evolve into other species, but you do have DNA data that shows that only what exists in the genome already becomes dominate or repressed, and nothing new is ever added.
False. There is plenty of evidence of added functions and beneficial changes to DNA. Before you reply, define "kind," and define "information."

Lack of transitory species.
You have been shown plenty of these.

Sudden appearance of full-blown animals in every single epoch.
I asked before, what does a non "fully formed" (or "full blown") species look like??

The only evidence that backs evolution is Fairie Dust. That's why you use it.
I thought that was what your god used to make the first human ... fairy dust.
 
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Split Rock

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Your phylums are useless classifications, invented for the sole purpose of trying to uphold evolution.
False again. As lasthero already pointed out, the system we use today was created long before Darwin, and was created by a creationist named Carl Linneaus. Your madeup fantasy world requires quite a bit of history revisionism just to maintain its dogma, doesn't it?


Yet dogs and cats are NOT of the same kind, regardless that they may contain tails and hollow spinal cords, but so do fishes. To which you classify all as chordata, which includes just about every animal in existence. useless.
Define "kind," already. Is is as arbitrary as you seem to be applying the term? Explain why dogs and cats are not the same "kind."

Felidae is the only useful classification of cats, just as canidae are the only useful classification of dogs. if I tell you my chordata plays all day, to which of the billions of animals am I referring to?
So what a hyenas? What are jaguarundi?


You classify Lions and Tigers as separate species, yet they interbreed, violating your own definition of species. Jaguar breed with Ocelot, yet you classify them as separate. Inconsistency in every classification system you have. You can trace breeding lineage from house cat to tiger, yet insist tigers are separate species. They are not, they are different breeds of the same species, felidae.

The definition of "biological species" requires that populations of the same species breed normally in nature. Tigers and lions do not, therefore they represent different breeding pools.

When in doubt, make up a name and throw it in the classification system.
Your motto seems to be "when in doubt, claim whatever you like is a kind and never and ever define the term."
 
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Doveaman

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Human feet are adapted to our bipedal stance. They are derived from prehensile feet and we retain vestigial grasping function in our toes and to a certain extent our arches. I mentioned that I can pick things up with my toes if I drop something and people who live in tropical environments use their toes and arches to grasp and climb palm and coconut trees.
I think you know I don’t subscribe to your school-book version of events.

The human feet were designed for our human stance. The entire foot, including the toes, was designed for stability and support and may be used for support when climbing or for picking things up despite not being specifically designed for those purposes. I can also use my arm-pit for support when climbing or to pick things up.
The FX folks on First Class took a general description of Hank's feet and digitally made a handfoot for the movie. That's hardly science there champ... that's fiction and the phrase is "creative license".
So what?

The fact is that they know what human prehensile feet would look like, and the design they came up with more resembles ape feet than human feet, opposable thumbs and all:

Prehensile_Feet.gif

Humans have vestigially prehensile feet btw, not fully prehensile. You need to read what people actually write.
Just because you call it “vestigially prehensile” doesn’t make it so. You are free to speculate all you want on how we got our feet, but the fact is that humans do not have prehensile feet nor did humans ever have prehensile feet, and that’s a biological difference that separates humans from apes.
All human feet are vestigially prehensile. Some are more prehensile, some less. Some can be exercised to be nearly fully prehensile.
Either humans have prehensile feet or they do not. And they do not. There is nothing "more" or "less" about it.
You forget, it's not the differences that make a being not something but the similarities. We have all the characteristics of an ape, and no characteristics that would not make us an ape (wings, chitinous exoskeleton, chlorophyll, etc.)
The human feet are not adapted for prehensility as the apes’ feet are, therefore human feet are not similar to ape feet. Ape feet look different and their function is different having adapted for a different purpose:

foot-comparison.jpg


Even a five year old can tell which one of these feet is not like the others:

anthropoid_feet.jpg
 
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Doveaman

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Evolution has led to modifications of man's feet compared to the feet of our common ancestor with apes. It was an advantage for mankind to walk upright, so our feet developed to provide stability and support.
So we agree humans do not have prehensile feet like apes do.

Great. :thumbsup:
Isn't evolution great?
Except Darwin's version.

The human feet were designed and created just as they are. No evolution required.
 
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Doveaman

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Humans have prehensile feet
No, we do not.

Human feet are designed for stability and support, not for grasping. That much is clear:

foot-comparison.jpg
They aren't as effective as an ape or monkey's feet
That's because ape and monkey feet are prehensile (designed for grasping) but human feet are not.
but as I mentioned, evolution explains that.
A make-belief story can explain anything, but it's still make-belief.
 
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