how did you pay for College?

[blackribbon]

Almost all engineers have to take technical writing, for most of us its not fun but certainly not a hurdle class. All technical manuals I know of are written by engineers, machinists, mechanics or other technical people. Usually the person who draws the short straw lol.

Marketing can be valuable such as logo design, brand recognition, company name (Exxon spent over a million dollars coming up with the name exxon, it literally has no meaning in any language or culture in the world, that would have been a fun project as a linguist). I have dabbled in logo design for my own resume and sort of branding myself.

The difference is these sorts of things don't require 4 years in school to learn. A lot of logos were likely designed by the business owners who back in the day had a 3rd grade education.

My philosophy is if a company or product needs HEAVY marketing it is because the product does not sell itself and perhaps is not a very good product. Granted some marketing and branding will always be required but if its over the top the owner might want to consider another product that sells easier.

All that being said there is not a lot of ongoing demand for things like that and you certainly don't need 4 years of full time schooling to do it.

There was a day when to be a good engineer didn't take a lot of school either...say for example Henry Ford? My grandfather was a fantastic engineer...he got sick his freshman year of college and was required to drop out but that didn't slow him down. We turned it into a degree...but the people who are always the best could have learned the trade on their own without formal education.

And my point is exactly that...engineers write technical manuals and the are usually horrible to read....the topic can be interesting but they have no skill at making the information "readable" or interesting...and a lot of times, their English is questionable too.

 

[SnowyMacie]

Unfortunately in the US we've bought into the idea that one has to have a degree to succeed.

Exactly. In a way, it's still seen as more successful to have a BA and working as a general manager at the local McDonald's or Taco Bell than not having a degree, than owning your own plumbing business.

It's also why many millennials are don't have the same opportunities enjoyed by previous generations.

It's one of the many reasons.

 

[pittsflyer]

That was true depending on what kind of engineering was being done and to what extent it was being done. The last 120 years we have seen a lot of break throughs, there is enough material that to be a true engineer/scientist/mathematician you need the formal education. If you don't have the formal education then you would need access to people that could help you through tough spots in understanding.

fortunately today we have youtube, MIT open course ware and a host of forms but without that solid foundation from a formal education you would be hard pressed to understand all of the material to be a true engineer in any sort of timely manner.

There used to be a way to get a professional engineer license without a degree but you had to have 20 years experience, the board has since done away with that because to be perfectly honest the day to day job of an engineer is not usually that complicated but about once a year or once every 2 years or so you have to do real engineering. What the board found was that these guys getting PE's via 20 years experience were pawning off that true engineering work to the actual engineers (because prior to finishing their 20 years they were not technically engineers so it was not their job) and because it came up so infrequently they were able to punch their 20 years and get their license and few people noticed. Though I am not sure what the point was because that would put someone at almost 40 years old and approaching retirement.

I will admit a lot of engineers are not good writers, I never used to be a good writer but I have endeavored to do a better job writing. To be concise and use a lot of diagrams, its important. Engineers can do it they just don't typically like to but if I include a lot of diagrams and equations I can create a work book or manual that is more of a joy to read, use different colors so it catches the eye, etc.

But these days to have a high functioning knowledge of engineering (almost to a scientist level which is where engineers should endeavor to be) it is highly improbable that you will get that on the job. Unless you are lucky enough to get a job at los Alamos as a high school grad so that you are around super smart people all day long.

I will also say the do it yourself revolution is upon us with 3D resin printing but you have to know what you are doing.

There was a day when to be a good engineer didn't take a lot of school either...say for example Henry Ford? My grandfather was a fantastic engineer...he got sick his freshman year of college and was required to drop out but that didn't slow him down. We turned it into a degree...but the people who are always the best could have learned the trade on their own without formal education.

And my point is exactly that...engineers write technical manuals and the are usually horrible to read....the topic can be interesting but they have no skill at making the information "readable" or interesting...and a lot of times, their English is questionable too.

 

[Blue Wren]

People don't want to admit we have that here in a different form. It is called merit based scholarships. The best students can get money to finance their college educations at little out of pocket. However, only the best and brightest get these and they aren't found at drunk frat parties on Friday and Saturday nights.

In your countries, can ANYONE go to college for free? Or is that opportunity only offered to a select number of qualified students? Also, could a 35 year old man who has had a factory level job suddenly decide to go to college to become an engineer or a nurse? Let's see if we are comparing apples to apples or maybe apples to tomatoes.

I don't know why you'd think, a 35 year old, couldn't go to college for free in Sweden? It's not so rare for people to go to university in their 30s. They still have 30 years of working, ahead of them. In Sweden it is not so common to marry, very young. There are people in their 30s who marry, go to university, change their lives. Not a problem. My favourite teacher used to be a pilot. He grew tired of it. He became a teacher, in his 50s. People of any age can attend university. It is harder to get a place at some universities. This is true, no matter your age. A person without the courses for engineering, nursing, they'd need to take them, yes. It's not so impossible to do, especially when there are no fees.

 

[Unix]

Some universities in Sweden, perhaps it's the small ones, have so bad libraries that You have to put tens of thousands of US$ into owning books Yourself. I'm not sure I have the kind of money it takes, I don't grow more rich as I get older:

[in Sweden i]t's not so rare for people to go to university in their 30s. They still have 30 years of working, ahead of them. In Sweden it is not so common to marry, very young. There are people in their 30s who marry, go to university, change their lives. Not a problem. My favourite teacher used to be a pilot. He grew tired of it. He became a teacher, in his 50s. People of any age can attend university. It is harder to get a place at some universities. This is true, no matter your age. A person without the courses for engineering, nursing, they'd need to take them, yes. It's not so impossible to do, especially when there are no fees.

I estimate that I'm going to be 51 and when I'm 55 going to start to make $100 a Month:

That's a concept that I think is gaining traction here in the U.S., and which I am trying to support myself.

I mean, I'm 28 and I have at a minimum two more years of undergraduate work. Then I might do graduate school or seminary after that, so I could easily be 33-35 before I'm finally finished with my education - but I'm completely okay with that. I love learning, and if it turns out that half of my life was spent doing that, that's okay!:

People of any age can attend university.

 

[Gnarwhal]

People of any age can attend university.

That's a concept that I think is gaining traction here in the U.S., and which I am trying to support myself.

I mean, I'm 28 and I have at a minimum two more years of undergraduate work. Then I might do graduate school or seminary after that, so I could easily be 33-35 before I'm finally finished with my education - but I'm completely okay with that. I love learning, and if it turns out that half of my life was spent doing that, that's okay!

I have a friend who's nearing 40, he's married with 1.5 kids and he never went to college. I really want to find a way to encourage him to at least go to community college for a vocational degree or something, because he and his family are just scraping by on odd jobs and public assistance. That's how life was for him growing up though, his dad was a salesman who's always gone from job-to-job and they depended on welfare and the support of others to make ends meet. Sometimes I don't think he understands or can perceive that he can make a radical vocational change that makes his (and his family's) life better.

 

[Blue Wren]

Some universities in Sweden, perhaps it's the small ones, have so bad libraries that You have to put tens of thousands of US$ into owning books Yourself. I'm not sure I have the kind of money it takes, I don't grow more rich as I get older:

Which universities, are you speaking of? This, is not what anybody I know, has experienced.

 

[Blue Wren]

That's a concept that I think is gaining traction here in the U.S., and which I am trying to support myself.

I mean, I'm 28 and I have at a minimum two more years of undergraduate work. Then I might do graduate school or seminary after that, so I could easily be 33-35 before I'm finally finished with my education - but I'm completely okay with that. I love learning, and if it turns out that half of my life was spent doing that, that's okay!

I have a friend who's nearing 40, he's married with 1.5 kids and he never went to college. I really want to find a way to encourage him to at least go to community college for a vocational degree or something, because he and his family are just scraping by on odd jobs and public assistance. That's how life was for him growing up though, his dad was a salesman who's always gone from job-to-job and they depended on welfare and the support of others to make ends meet. Sometimes I don't think he understands or can perceive that he can make a radical vocational change that makes his (and his family's) life better.

It's worthwhile, I think. Even if your friend starts a new career in his 40s, he will still be working, for many more years.

 

[Unix]

I'm not sure I want to publicly mention as I would embarrass them. Of course, I expect more from the libraries than the average student does, and I want recent books - more than just during writing papers for degrees (during that time You can use distance loan which helps):

Which universities, are you speaking of? This, is not what anybody I know, has experienced.

 

[Blue Wren]

I'm not sure I want to publicly mention as I would embarrass them. Of course, I expect more from the libraries than the average student does, and I want recent books - more than just during writing papers for degrees (during that time You can use distance loan which helps):

If the libraries are so terrible, they have surely been criticised by others on the internet before, no? This is not a site, that is so popular, the whole world will pay much attention. I don't think, you'd cause any embarrassment.

 

[Gnarwhal]

It's worthwhile, I think. Even if your friend starts a new career in his 40s, he will still be working, for many more years.

Right, especially since he's definitely not going to have any sort of useful retirement plan in 20-25 years.

 

[pittsflyer]

I totaled up the value of my books once for insurance and I am at around 5k, its totally worth having your own reference library because even if you did have a library its inconvenient and what about when you move and still want to practice engineering. You need to be a self contained professional.

Some universities in Sweden, perhaps it's the small ones, have so bad libraries that You have to put tens of thousands of US$ into owning books Yourself. I'm not sure I have the kind of money it takes, I don't grow more rich as I get older:



I estimate that I'm going to be 51 and when I'm 55 going to start to make $100 a Month:

 

[Unix]

As the professions I could take don't have high status anymore since many decades, my biggest accomplishment is going to be to author a book (which isn't high status but means a lot to me at least as much as taking a paid job I mentioned where I would lecture in Religion/Christianity in the last classes of elementary school or in popular adult education). Is it really going to be worthwhile for me to get some of the very latest Editions of things like a commentary set (the 2015 New Interpreter's Bible Commentary (10 vols.) and parts of the Greek Old Testament (newest Göttingen Edition which is starting to come out soon and some volumes came out very recently) if those new Editions are only available in print and either never digitally or that it takes several years more before they become available digitally, if the new print Editions in some cases cost several times more (Göttingen - outrageous prices) and I have the old Editions digitally?:

I totaled up the value of my books once for insurance and I am at around 5k, its totally worth having your own reference library because even if you did have a library its inconvenient and what about when you move and still want to practice engineering. You need to be a self contained professional.

In a small country like Sweden, it's very unchristian if having very high expectations to publicly put down an academic institution. It's too difficult already to enter the greatest universities:

If the libraries are so terrible, they have surely been criticised by others on the internet before, no? This is not a site, that is so popular, the whole world will pay much attention. I don't think, you'd cause any embarrassment.

 

[dayhiker]

I was in the marine Corps for 4 yrs and had the GI bill. Plus I worked summer and some of the time after classes. had no debt after 5 yrs of college and two degrees.

Now I also looked to go to colleges that had low tuition. I transferred credits into the colleges I wanted a degree from. Which meant that I had to get As and Bs.

 

[SnowyMacie]

Right, especially since he's definitely not going to have any sort of useful retirement plan in 20-25 years.

Unless you are constantly saving and investing money for retirement. I personally don't even see myself retiring unless I mentally or physically have to.

 

[SnowyMacie]

Educate yourselves...

Calculating for inflation...
Yale tuition in 1970: $14,917.5
Minimum wage: $8.80


All you need to do is google and you'll get the sources.

 

[pittsflyer]

GI bill is nothing like it used to be, certainly not enough money to put up with the marine corp. The military is not for most people. Back in the day the math worked out VERY differently.

I did the army guard and I could not imagine dealing with the screaming, stress and drama every single day to get 20% of my school paid for and have lost 4 years of my life, significant mental health and expose myself to an additional 4 years of stop loss. I did not stay in the guard long and got myself out before I was federalized which is another slap in the face, if I wanted to go fight tribes men half a world away I would have joined the regular army

I was in the marine Corps for 4 yrs and had the GI bill. Plus I worked summer and some of the time after classes. had no debt after 5 yrs of college and two degrees.

Now I also looked to go to colleges that had low tuition. I transferred credits into the colleges I wanted a degree from. Which meant that I had to get As and Bs.

 

[pittsflyer]

The baby boomer generation just doesn't get it, either they are too mentally lazy to do the math or they just want to put down the younger generations. Short of being independently wealthy or being the 0.000001% that gets a full ride to a top tier school there is no getting around student loans and as every person younger than 40 knows flipping burgers is not going to subsidize your education, in fact the amount of money you make "working while you go to school" is so meager that it amounts to noise but the time it consumes away from your studies is significant.

I had to write off my dad for 5 years because my step mom flipped out that I did not work and go to school (but they were not paying for anything) because by dong it she worked at the dairy queen when she went to school and hated it so I should sacrifice study time to perform menial tasks to subsidize 3% of my tuition and board, then do poorly in classes I have to take out massive loans for, I don't think so. If they were paying the 97% difference sure I would put on a dog and pony show for them. In fact a guy I went to school with parents did just that and he flipped on me because I up and quit a "job" to go back home out of state, oh well too bad, when his parents are paying the 97% difference they can have a say.

Educate yourselves...

Calculating for inflation...
Yale tuition in 1970: $14,917.5
Minimum wage: $8.80


All you need to do is google and you'll get the sources.

 

[Messy]

Educate yourselves...

Calculating for inflation...
Yale tuition in 1970: $14,917.5
Minimum wage: $8.80


All you need to do is google and you'll get the sources.

What? 45800 a year????
I got 300 euro a month from the government to study, back then it was for 6 years. The rest my dad paid, but college money now is 1900 a year.

 

[Deidre32]

I was fortunate that my dad paid for my college.