How did you become convinced that APOKATASTASIS or the reconciliation of all things is true.

[Jeff Saunders]

I would like this topic to be for those who believe that CHRISTIAN UNIVERSAL REDEMPTION/SALVATION is true. Please don’t make this another debate on if it’s true or not that is not that has been done many times already. I would like to know how you came to the place that you believe it’s truth . I think It would be good to hear each other’s journey to this glorious gospel and how it has changed how you see God and his creation. I will start with a condensed form of how I got there, my computer died so I only have my phone which takes forever to type on so the condensed version is this. I had an experience with God back around 1975 where I encountered the love of God in a way I never had before, Gods love totally enveloped me and I sat and cried for a long time and have had several encounters of the same over the years, I couldn’t get it out of my head and heart how could the God I encountered torcher his creation for all eternity I could not see how that was true but all I knew was the English language bible and it was what we had at the time. I went to conservative Christian college and have worked in Christian ministries most of my adult life . I was scrolling through YouTube and saw Steve Gregg give a talk about the 3views of hell and he talked about Christian Universal Salvation, I had never heard of anything like that idea , so I did as I had alway done I set out to prove that it was wrong just like Calvinist teachings. So I got several books from those teachers of this and started reading, I also went on the internet and read all that I could, but the more I tried to prove it wrong the more I could see it was I who was wrong. I never understood how the God I had encountered who can do nothing except out of love could call torture for ever love. So after much prayer and sleepless nights the Holy Spirit renewed my heart and I was set free. I always knew that the God I encountered could not torture his creation which he said he loves. Now I can’t not see it , it’s all throughout scripture. Now the gospel is really good news for all not just a few. Now I understand what Jesus meant by I came not to judge the world but to save it. Now I see all humanity as the body of Christ not those who are in and those who are out. I see everyone as my brother or sister in Christ some now most in the next age , but still the body of Christ, that’s why Jesus said when you did not do it to the least of these you did not do it to me. So I am now a convinced believer in APOKATASTASIS and that God will reconcile the whole cosmos to himself. God really is love and life and light and in him is no darkness. So please tell your story and be gracious with each other and show how we can have unity amongst diversity and don’t dismiss another’s journey. Again this is not a debate just a safe place to tell our journey so we can learn from each other.

 

[GregoryofNyssa]

I wrote a research paper on Epektasis and Apokatastasis as part of a study on Gregory of Nyssa after returning to college as a second career student studying religion and philosophy. I had not given much thought to the ideas of perpetual ascent of the soul and universal salvation until I began researching this paper which was presented at a Research Symposium in 2011 alongside a paper written by my mentor on "Clement of Rome's Concept of 'Canon'". The entire experience of researching this paper from a patristic standpoint through the lens of early church fathers led to my acceptance of both theological ideologies. Though Origen had his original claims that closely aligned with an understanding of Apokatastasis essentially declared heretical, by the time of Gregory of Nyssa in the 300's the idea seems to have simply slipped into the background of theological discourse, never quite dismissed buy merely ignored by many if not most. It is a fascinating process and idea to study yet sadly, a difficult topic to have meaningful discussion upon because of the veracity of denial and spite that many have to the very notion that God would choose to save all.

 

[Der Alte]

I wrote a research paper on Epektasis and Apokatastasis as part of a study on Gregory of Nyssa after returning to college as a second career student studying religion and philosophy. I had not given much thought to the ideas of perpetual ascent of the soul and universal salvation until I began researching this paper which was presented at a Research Symposium in 2011 alongside a paper written by my mentor on "Clement of Rome's Concept of 'Canon'". The entire experience of researching this paper from a patristic standpoint through the lens of early church fathers led to my acceptance of both theological ideologies. Though Origen had his original claims that closely aligned with an understanding of Apokatastasis essentially declared heretical, by the time of Gregory of Nyssa in the 300's the idea seems to have simply slipped into the background of theological discourse, never quite dismissed buy merely ignored by many if not most. It is a fascinating process and idea to study yet sadly, a difficult topic to have meaningful discussion upon because of the veracity of denial and spite that many have to the very notion that God would choose to save all.

Oh but you do err. I agree that God did, in fact, "choose all" but all did NOT choose God.

EOB Matt 7:21 It is not everyone who tells me, ‘Lord, Lord’ who will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many [NOT a few] will tell me in that Day, ‘Lord, Lord, did not we prophesy in your Name, cast out demons in your Name and do many deeds of power in your Name?’ 23 Then I [Jesus] will tell them, ‘I never knew you! Depart from me, you who do what is wicked.’​

 

[Free2bHeretical4Him!]

Cool idea for a thread Jeff. I was first challenged by someone, on the discussion forums on the Steve Brown wesite, concerning my position on Hell. I also hated, when I was sharing the Gospel, I arrived at the place I had to inform them of the peril that awaited them for not loving and accepting Jesus. It was like a dark cloud that followed me every time I felt compelled to share the Gospel.

Even though I hated sharing the idea of hell I was also afraid to change my position so I debated with him anyway. After we engaged in discussion for sometime, it became quite clear to me I was clinging to something that was a lie. I couldn’t believe I had embraced this horrid doctrine and thought what else have I embraced that is a lie. I told the Lord I didn’t care what anyone else thought or taught anymore. I put everything I was ever taught on the table before the Lord and said I would toss out anything He showed me was a lie.

He directed me to the Tentmaker website. I began to read of Universal Reconciliation and it wasn’t long before the light of the true Gospel brought a profound smile to my heart. All those passages of Scripture that were hidden from my eyes just jumped out at me, particularly Romans chapter 5 and 1st Corinthians 15. Wow … How had I missed it. I will never align myself with any religion again, nor adhere to any creed drafted by the hands of man.

I love the Lord Jesus and now love sharing the truth with people. I am at peace with what He has revealed to me and now follow Him out of love, not fear. God IS Spirit. God IS Light. God IS Love. His Spirit teaches me. His Light leads the way for me and His Love envelops and sustains me!

blessings

 

[Jeff Saunders]

Cool idea for a thread Jeff. I was first challenged by someone, on the discussion forums on the Steve Brown wesite, concerning my position on Hell. I also hated, when I was sharing the Gospel, I arrived at the place I had to inform them of the peril that awaited them for not loving and accepting Jesus. It was like a dark cloud that followed me every time I felt compelled to share the Gospel.

Even though I hated sharing the idea of hell I was also afraid to change my position so I debated with him anyway. After we engaged in discussion for sometime, it became quite clear to me I was clinging to something that was a lie. I couldn’t believe I had embraced this horrid doctrine and thought what else have I embraced that is a lie. I told the Lord I didn’t care what anyone else thought or taught anymore. I put everything I was ever taught on the table before the Lord and said I would toss out anything He showed me was a lie.

He directed me to the Tentmaker website. I began to read of Universal Reconciliation and it wasn’t long before the light of the true Gospel brought a profound smile to my heart. All those passages of Scripture that were hidden from my eyes just jumped out at me, particularly Romans chapter 5 and 1st Corinthians 15. Wow … How had I missed it. I will never align myself with any religion again, nor adhere to any creed drafted by the hands of man.

I love the Lord Jesus and now love sharing the truth with people. I am at peace with what He has revealed to me and now follow Him out of love, not fear. God IS Spirit. God IS Light. God IS Love. His Spirit teaches me. His Light leads the way for me and His Love envelops and sustains me!

blessings

Isn’t it great when we see Gods gospel that Paul shared so many years ago . When the Spirit opened my eyes to what Jesus did and how God really does love his whole creation and has had a plan from the beginning to redeem his whole creation, now the veil has been lifted and I see this through out scripture and I can’t unsee it. My love for all humanity has changed I no longer see people as in or out but as my brother or sister in Christ but most of them don’t know it yet. I used to have hated in my heart for certain people groups now I don’t. I see them as brothers or sisters in the making. It’s sad that so many, who don’t know what we believe say if you believe in CUR ( Christian Universal Redemption) you won’t share the gospel, well that is as far from the truth as it can get . My son when the Spirit opened his eyes to the truth has talked to way more people because we really do have good news for everyone not just a few. I have so much peace in my heart now, it’s a hard road, I was kicked out of the church that I was a youth pastor and have had my friends stop talking to me and been called a heretic many times, so it proves Jesus correct when he said in this world you will have tribulations but be of good cheer I have overcome the world. Thanks for sharing. I wanted to have a place that we could lift each other up and not tear down, we don’t all have to agree on everything God is infinite and we see as through a glass dimly and God didn’t always make it clear what definition he had in some words when written, so we will sometimes see things differently but that shouldn’t divide us , we need unity not division.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

For me it was a gradual awakening of sorts. I'm an avid Bible student and have been for several decades now.

I first came in contact with the concepts of Christian Universalism at the CARM site when it first started. Engaged with several Unies as they were called and one particular poster there had a site with 100 or so scriptures that supposedly represented the position. So I rolled up my sleeves and studied it. When I got done, prayed about it and left it to simmer in my mind.

Ultimately I had to agree with Jesus, that the quest is to love our neighbors as ourselves. It really is that simple.

That only left adverse judgments on the table for me at this point and it took me several more years of study to find what I consider solid ground on both sides of the ledgers of scripture.

Christian Universalism is a diverse group of people and beliefs, just like any other of the various sects. You have to filter through all the positions to really know where they, or anyone really, is at in their walks.

I do NOT accept a lot of the stuff floated in the universalist sphere and consider myself a basic fundamentalist at heart. I came out of the charismatic movement so I'm used to a lot of utter nonsense flying around. Was born again as a basic RCC convert who was raised ALC Lutheran.

And let's face it. Not everyone who is a Christian has the deep desires of Word engagements. We're generally a rare breed with deeper interests

 

[ozso]

Around 2008 I heard someone mention "the doctrine of universal salvation" which I hadn't heard of before. So I started googling it, and found a website called tentmaker.org which had a lively discussion group at the time. I've dabbled in learning about it here and there from time to time since then. I can't say I'm entirely convinced, but I'm certainly open to it.

What stands out to me is the question of what does God want, and does God get what he wants in the end?

 

[Laodicean60]

When the Spirit opened my eyes to what Jesus did and how God really does love his whole creation and has had a plan from the beginning to redeem his whole creation,

Amen! Sadly, we love ourselves more.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

For me it was a gradual awakening of sorts. I'm an avid Bible student and have been for several decades now.

I first came in contact with the concepts of Christian Universalism at the CARM site when it first started. Engaged with several Unies as they were called and one particular poster there had a site with 100 or so scriptures that supposedly represented the position. So I rolled up my sleeves and studied it. When I got done, prayed about it and left it to simmer in my mind.

Ultimately I had to agree with Jesus, that the quest is to love our neighbors as ourselves. It really is that simple.

That only left adverse judgments on the table for me at this point and it took me several more years of study to find what I consider solid ground on both sides of the ledgers of scripture.

Christian Universalism is a diverse group of people and beliefs, just like any other of the various sects. You have to filter through all the positions to really know where they, or anyone really, is at in their walks.

I do NOT accept a lot of the stuff floated in the universalist sphere and consider myself a basic fundamentalist at heart. I came out of the charismatic movement so I'm used to a lot of utter nonsense flying around. Was born again as a basic RCC convert who was raised ALC Lutheran.

And let's face it. Not everyone who is a Christian has the deep desires of Word engagements. We're generally a rare breed with deeper interests

Our family, that has all gone over to what I call the true gospel that is taught in scripture, we call ourselves the minority of the minority.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

Our family, that has all gone over to what I call the true gospel that is taught in scripture, we call ourselves the minority of the minority.

Same with my family. When we share the love of God we say we have our own religion, called (our last name) followed by "ism." Then tell those we witness to they too can just call their religion by their last name.

That's one of the things we like about Christian Universalism. When you believe God in Christ saves everyone, there really isn't anything to argue about. It's all good.

And most of the witnessing is so simple. We "assume" them in. Most are not used to that. 1 John 4:7 is a very powerful tool. As is Matt. 23:9. It doesn't take much. And it will stick. And most are likewise amazed if they hear not one named person is shown in the Bible to be going to hell, past-present or future

Paul rejoiced no matter how Christ was proclaimed. I'd suggest his faith was in Christ and not in the persons, regardless of the persons being wrong or having a jot or tittle out of place

 

[Jeff Saunders]

Same with my family. When we share the love of God we say we have our own religion, called (our last name) followed by "ism." Then tell those we witness to they too can just call their religion by their last name.

That's one of the things we like about Christian Universalism. When you believe God in Christ saves everyone, there really isn't anything to argue about. It's all good.

And most of the witnessing is so simple. We "assume" them in. Most are not used to that. 1 John 4:7 is a very powerful tool. As is Matt. 23:9. It doesn't take much. And it will stick. And most are likewise amazed if they hear not one named person is shown in the Bible to be going to hell, past-present or future

Paul rejoiced no matter how Christ was proclaimed. I'd suggest his faith was in Christ and not in the persons, regardless of the persons being wrong or having a jot or tittle out of place

It has definitely changed the way I look at people now , I worked at a job where my boss was a lesbian and not a nice person, I live in the south in the Bible Belt and so every one says they are Christians including her. Most of the Church people didn’t want anything to do with her , but I treated her as a sister in Christ, she was not acting like one but I know that someday she will be if not in this age then in the next. She did not know what to make of me because I didn’t fit the stereotype of a Church person.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

It has definitely changed the way I look at people now , I worked at a job where my boss was a lesbian and not a nice person, I live in the south in the Bible Belt and so every one says they are Christians including her. Most of the Church people didn’t want anything to do with her , but I treated her as a sister in Christ, she was not acting like one but I know that someday she will be if not in this age then in the next. She did not know what to make of me because I didn’t fit the stereotype of a Church person.

I spent most of my life as a homebuilder and had a come to Jesus moment about my own hypocrisy when doing business with lesbians or gays, happily taking their money for my product, yet thinking in my heart they were screwed on getting in to heaven. And I hated myself for it. It's part of what sent me on my discovery journey, to see just what in the hell was wrong with ME.

I don't have to agree with the sin of anyone, but it starts with my own state of having sin, present tense. Whether seen or acted on.

So I have to look at these matters with TWO EYES. One on the child of God and one on our adversary.

And I see all people this way. One can be totally loved. The other, totally hated. And there the door will open to every REAL DISCIPLE:

Luke 14:26
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

Jesus looks at all of us with BOTH EYES

 

[Jipsah]

Oh but you do err. I agree that God did, in fact, "choose all" but all did NOT choose God.

So God's "choosing" is less significant than the "choosing" of His fallen and damaged creatures. Once again, "poor God, there's just nothing He can do." Being omnipotent ain't all it's cracked up to be". The stupidest of His creatures can, and does, thwart God's will, and Old Nick wins in the end.

Right.

Somewhere I've heard that "every knee shall bow and every tongue confess", so maybe, just maybe, a lot of those who you don't think will choose God, eventually, in spite of your inability to see it, will.

 

[Jipsah]

What stands out to me is the question of what does God want, and does God get what he wants in the end?

That's the long and the short of it. Is God's will gonna be done, yes or no? Call me weird (and many do), I but I'm putting my money on God rather than His often astonishly numbskulled creatures, or Old Nick, aka the Cosmic Loser. God wins, end of. And that means we all win. Our Lord's sacrifice was/is both efficacious and all encompassing. Everything will be set gloriously right in the end. All shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well. Glory to God in the Highest!

 

[public hermit]

I would like this topic to be for those who believe that CHRISTIAN UNIVERSAL REDEMPTION/SALVATION is true. Please don’t make this another debate on if it’s true or not that is not that has been done many times already. I would like to know how you came to the place that you believe it’s truth . I think It would be good to hear each other’s journey to this glorious gospel and how it has changed how you see God and his creation. I will start with a condensed form of how I got there, my computer died so I only have my phone which takes forever to type on so the condensed version is this. I had an experience with God back around 1975 where I encountered the love of God in a way I never had before, Gods love totally enveloped me and I sat and cried for a long time and have had several encounters of the same over the years, I couldn’t get it out of my head and heart how could the God I encountered torcher his creation for all eternity I could not see how that was true but all I knew was the English language bible and it was what we had at the time. I went to conservative Christian college and have worked in Christian ministries most of my adult life . I was scrolling through YouTube and saw Steve Gregg give a talk about the 3views of hell and he talked about Christian Universal Salvation, I had never heard of anything like that idea , so I did as I had alway done I set out to prove that it was wrong just like Calvinist teachings. So I got several books from those teachers of this and started reading, I also went on the internet and read all that I could, but the more I tried to prove it wrong the more I could see it was I who was wrong. I never understood how the God I had encountered who can do nothing except out of love could call torture for ever love. So after much prayer and sleepless nights the Holy Spirit renewed my heart and I was set free. I always knew that the God I encountered could not torture his creation which he said he loves. Now I can’t not see it , it’s all throughout scripture. Now the gospel is really good news for all not just a few. Now I understand what Jesus meant by I came not to judge the world but to save it. Now I see all humanity as the body of Christ not those who are in and those who are out. I see everyone as my brother or sister in Christ some now most in the next age , but still the body of Christ, that’s why Jesus said when you did not do it to the least of these you did not do it to me. So I am now a convinced believer in APOKATASTASIS and that God will reconcile the whole cosmos to himself. God really is love and life and light and in him is no darkness. So please tell your story and be gracious with each other and show how we can have unity amongst diversity and don’t dismiss another’s journey. Again this is not a debate just a safe place to tell our journey so we can learn from each other.

To the question: I read the Bible and considered what was most honoring of God. As Origen put it, God's justice is merciful, and God's mercy is just. If God doesn't reconcile all things, God is not God. For how can God be all in all if all is not redeemed? Happily, God is God: immutable, all-powerful, and good.

 

[Free2bHeretical4Him!]

That's the long and the short of it. Is God's will gonna be done, yes or no? Call me weird (and many do), I but I'm putting my money on God rather than His often astonishly numbskulled creatures, or Old Nick, aka the Cosmic Loser. God wins, end of. And that means we all win. Our Lord's sacrifice was/is both efficacious and all encompassing. Everything will be set gloriously right in the end. All shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well. Glory to God in the Highest!

Great way to start my morning brother … Love Never Fails!

 

[Free2bHeretical4Him!]

To the question: I read the Bible and considered what was most honoring of God. As Origen put it, God's justice is merciful, and God's mercy is just. If God doesn't reconcile all things, God is not God. For how can God be all in all if all is not redeemed? Happily, God is God: immutable, all-powerful, and good.

You and brother Jipsah put my day in the right frame of mind this morning. Indeed, God shall be All in All.

 

[Aaron112]

Around 2008 I heard someone mention "the doctrine of universal salvation" which I hadn't heard of before. So I started googling it, and found a website called tentmaker.org which had a lively discussion group at the time. I've dabbled in learning about it here and there from time to time since then. I can't say I'm entirely convinced, but I'm certainly open to it.

What stands out to me is the question of what does God want, and does God get what he wants in the end?

Being open to deception leads to deception, and more deception as time goes by.
The god of this world loves it when people listen to the little lies, and they do not realize they can no longer hear Jesus, nor do they realize that because of their perversion Jesus does not hear their prayers.

 

[ozso]

Being open to deception leads to deception, and more deception as time goes by.
The god of this world loves it when people listen to the little lies, and they do not realize they can no longer hear Jesus, nor do they realize that because of their perversion Jesus does not hear their prayers.

I'm sure you realize that sort of thing is said by many Chirstians regarding numerous beliefs and theologies. There are those who consider Messianic Judaism to be false teaching, heresy, a deception and so on for instance.

 

[Aaron112]

I'm sure you realize that sort of thing is said by many Chirstians regarding numerous beliefs and theologies. There are those who consider Messianic Judaism to be false teaching, heresy, a deception and so on for instance.

Notice that there are many false teachings, heresies, deceptions and so on for instance on the forum.
There are not many false gospels. False gospel bringers are accursed. That is what God Says in Scripture.
False teachings , heresies , deceptions and so on are addressed separately and differently by what God Says.
False Gospels like ur are simply forbidden.