How could you tell?

[Davian]

It's a gamble, with no apparent downside.

Everything we are urged to do by God is an intrinsically good act, based on any form of morality, whether you believe as I do that it's objective, or as you might think, subjective.

Do you include the actions of the members of the Westboro Baptist Church in that statement? You know, "All nations should follow God in requiring the death penalty for sodomy" and all that?

 

[Cearbhall]

It's a gamble, with no apparent downside.

So Pascal's Wager? The downside I see is that there are at least hundreds of religions in the world and any one of them could be right...

 

[Non sequitur]

It's a gamble, with no apparent downside.

Everything we are urged to do by God is an intrinsically good act, based on any form of morality, whether you believe as I do that it's objective, or as you might think, subjective.

Now, people here have claimed and will claim knowledge of God, as I do, and you will level the charge of potential deception, but to what end? What does this evil trickster have to gain by getting us to be nice to each other?

Answer that, and we can discuss why we believe it's not so.

Have you never seen a movie (or real life situation) in which the bad guy, leading everybody to believe everything he's doing is for good, actually served some nefarious means but NOBODY KNEW UNTIL AFTER THE FACT?

I mean, pick something on the opposing side of whatever political view you hold and you've got tons of examples, just to start.

Not being able to discern intentions is a horrible argument for the proponency. Especially if you actually could not even be able to.

 

[Elioenai26]

Have you never seen a movie (or real life situation) in which the bad guy, leading everybody to believe everything he's doing is for good, actually served some nefarious means but NOBODY KNEW UNTIL AFTER THE FACT?

I mean, pick something on the opposing side of whatever political view you hold and you've got tons of examples, just to start.

Not being able to discern intentions is a horrible argument for the proponency. Especially if you actually could not even be able to.

Do you have a point?

 

[Non sequitur]

Do you have a point?

You literally could not know if your god was tricking you, without circular reasoning.

 

[Elioenai26]

You literally could not know if your god was tricking you, without circular reasoning.

Even if I grant that...

So what??

Do you actually have a point?

 

[Cearbhall]

You literally could not know if your god was tricking you, without circular reasoning.

Hence

 

[Non sequitur]

Even if I grant that...

So what??

Do you actually have a point?

Errr...everything you believe would be wrong?

That would be a pretty substantial thing, don't you think?

 

[Elioenai26]

Errr...everything you believe would be wrong?

That would be a pretty substantial thing, don't you think?

You mean could be wrong.

That is what you meant to say right?

 

[Cearbhall]

You mean could be wrong.

That is what you meant to say right?

Nooo, "would" tends to be the correct term for a hypothetical situation...

 

[Non sequitur]

You mean could be wrong.

That is what you meant to say right?

No.

You said, "Even if I grant that...", assuming I was correct about him being sinister. By default he would not this god you say he is.

So you would be wrong.

 

[Elioenai26]

No.

You said, "Even if I grant that...", assuming I was correct about him being sinister. By default he would not this god you say he is.

So you would be wrong.

Shame on you...

You are forgetting what you posted!

"You literally could not know if your god was tricking you..."

That is what you said, to which I responded,:

Even if I grant that i.e. even if I grant that I could not know if God was tricking me....so what?

You then take the above and say that I would be wrong about God being good.

That is a non-sequitur non-sequitur. You have chosen your name well!

It does not follow that because I am unable to discern if God is tricking me, that God is necessarily tricking me. I could be wrong, but not necessarily wrong. He could be tricking me, not necessarily tricking me. He could be telling the truth, which in fact I have abundant reasons to maintain is the case.

And I ask again.....so what??

What good reasons do I have to think God is lying to me?

Do you have any to give me?

 

[HitchSlap]

Shame on you...


What good reasons do I have to think God is lying to me?

Do you have any to give me?

2 Thessalonians 2:11
For this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie.

Because your bible says so.

 

[Elioenai26]

2 Thessalonians 2:11
For this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie.

Because your bible says so.

Who is he referring to.

Take the advice of your fellow atheists here and stop quote-mining.

 

[HitchSlap]

Who is he referring to.

Take the advice of your fellow atheists here and stop quote-mining.

I just established, with a source you accept, that your god is capable of deception and lying, and you hand wave it away? Who's cherry picking??

 

[Elioenai26]

I just established, with a source you accept, that your god is capable of deception and lying, and you hand wave it away? Who's cherry picking??

I dismiss it because it is a logical fallacy and a type of false attribution in which a passage is removed from its surrounding matter in such a way as to distort its intended meaning.

 

[HitchSlap]

I dismiss it because it is a logical fallacy and a type of false attribution in which a passage is removed from its surrounding matter in such a way as to distort its intended meaning.

Not at all. Read the passage first. It's a clear statement of god's intent to mislead and lie.

Ezekiel 14:9
And if a prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet.

 

[Cearbhall]

I dismiss it because it is a logical fallacy and a type of false attribution in which a passage is removed from its surrounding matter in such a way as to distort its intended meaning.

And now you understand how we feel the rest of the time. That was his point. We can just as easily take something from the Bible and use it to support a viewpoint.

 

[Elioenai26]

And now you understand how we feel the rest of the time.

You feel that it should not be done, I agree. I hope hitchslap understands.

 

[Elioenai26]

Not at all. Read the passage first. It's a clear statement of god's intent to mislead and lie.

Ezekiel 14:9
And if a prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet.

Why just one verse?

Why are you still quote-mining?