How Could God allow this?

[Guojing]

I don’t. But a father and a mother are two different people and still we lump them together as “parents.”

Faith, love, hope, courage, patience, kindness are all matters that either express themselves as choices or they aren’t really there and we’re fooling ourselves.

Many think faith is merely giving “mental ascent” to an idea and requires no change of choices. This isn’t real faith. Faith without an outworking is dead.

Okay, that is a very common view on faith, that it requires work.

 

[fwGod]

I think that God allows bad things to happen for the greater good. Sometimes the pain has to be so great that it forces a person to change.

That doesn't work for the person who doesn't know God. To them pain is pain with no way to get out of it.. other than, God forbid, suicide.

There are times when it's better to not always look at things from a religious point of view. It is only then that we can help someone who doesn't know God. I think that is the story of the good Samaritan.

 

[ZNP]

That doesn't work for the person who doesn't know God. To them pain is pain with no way to get out of it.. other than, God forbid, suicide.

There are times when it's better to not always look at things from a religious point of view. It is only then that we can help someone who doesn't know God. I think that is the story of the good Samaritan.

One of the central characters is that story fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead. Clearly there was pain and suffering. But that also revealed the truth about the Priest, Levite and Samaritan. Who was truly the neighbor to the Samaritan, and who was on the path to inherit eternal life.

 

[fwGod]

One of the central characters is that story fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead. Clearly there was pain and suffering. But that also revealed the truth about the Priest, Levite and Samaritan. Who was truly the neighbor to the Samaritan, and who was on the path to inherit eternal life.

The Samaritan was the neighbor to the injured man. The religious men showed that their religion was useless if it dictated them to be of no help whatsoever.

 

[ZNP]

The Samaritan was the neighbor to the injured man. The religious men showed that their religion was useless if it dictated them to be of no help whatsoever.

James says that pure religion is to visit widows and orphans in their affliction. So i would say it was the good Samaritan that was practicing pure religion.

 

[fwGod]

James says that pure religion is to visit widows and orphans in their affliction. So i would say it was the good Samaritan that was practicing pure religion.

We don't know if that injured man was an orphan. The good Samaritan could simply have been following the "love your neighbor as yourself" commandment.. without actually being very familiar with it. But following his own conscience.. and perhaps had experiences of being injured alone while religious people walked around him as they pretended not to see him.

 

[ZNP]

We don't know if that injured man was an orphan. The good Samaritan could simply have been following the "love your neighbor as yourself" commandment.. without actually being very familiar with it. But following his own conscience.. and perhaps had experiences of being injured alone while religious people walked around him as they pretended not to see him.

Without a doubt do unto others as you would have them do unto you is the law of liberty. The laws that the Priest and Levite represented didn't bring anyone into liberty. the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law

 

[fwGod]

Without a doubt do unto others as you would have them do unto you is the law of liberty. The laws that the Priest and Levite represented didn't bring anyone into liberty. the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law

Yes, such are not a means of getting 'browny points with God' to those who religiously relied on their works to think themselves acceptable to God.

Loving your neighbor as yourself is the fulfillment of the law. God's love is the motivation behind keeping the ten commandments and all of the extended commandments are derived from the ten. In the new testament we only have one commandment. To love the brethren as much as Jesus loves all of us. How well are we keeping that one thing that is required of us?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

What are you talking about?

There’s a real disconnect. You answered my post not the OP.

This thread is about "Why would God allow this?" Under that umbrella why would God allow the accuser of the brethren to accuse them? Because they learn to overcome Him, that is why. An example of how to respond to the accuser of the Brethren is given in the temptation of Jesus by Satan.

The OP has nothing to do with the accuser of the brethren.

Satan tempts the Lord with the word and He in return responds with the word.

So? That’s not all they used to communicate. They both spoke their own mind too. It’s part of not being merely a search engine.

No one should feel the need to be unique, or speak some new thing.

If one doesn’t mind having no brain oneself but merely quote those who do.

In fact, doing that might simply be a cover for being ashamed of the Lord and His words in this adulterous and evil generation.

You are joking right? The mightiest people in the kingdom of God and the ones nearst to His heart composed original material. Much of that we call the Bible. All of it we call “inspired of God.”

Besides, when we speak the Lord's word
we speak God’s wisdom in a mystery, even the wisdom that hath been hidden, which God foreordained before the worlds unto our glory: 1Cor 2:7

There are those who quote the Bible demonstrating a total lack of understanding it. If they did, they wouldn’t have inserted it in the wrong place. The Bible isn’t magic.

We don't need to speak "our wisdom", we speak "God's wisdom".

Wisdom is applying it and knowing WHEN those words express an idea best.

Did Satan speak “God’s wisdom” when he quoted it??

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Okay, that is a very common view on faith, that it requires work.

Read Hebrews 11. Is it your position that those believers were all WRONG for believing faith requires work? Do you think faith is merely agreeing mentally with a position without having to ever demonstrate faith by actually doing anything a person who believes would do differently than an unbeliever?

By the way, do you what James thought of a faith that requires no work of itself?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Yes, such are not a means of getting 'browny points with God' to those who religiously relied on their works to think themselves acceptable to God.

Loving your neighbor as yourself is the fulfillment of the law. God's love is the motivation behind keeping the ten commandments and all of the extended commandments are derived from the ten. In the new testament we only have one commandment. To love the brethren as much as Jesus loves all of us. How well are we keeping that one thing that is required of us?

We are also required to love God so there are two commandments.

 

[Guojing]

Read Hebrews 11. Is it your position that those believers were all WRONG for believing faith requires work? Do you think faith is merely agreeing mentally with a position without having to ever demonstrate faith by actually doing anything a person who believes would do differently than an unbeliever?

By the way, do you what James thought of a faith that requires no work of itself?

Yes, I agree that Hebrews 11 showed faith and works are both required. But for those OT saints, they lived before the cross, so the faith that comes apart from works have not been revealed yet.

James was writing to the Jews and he was preaching the gospel of the kingdom, which required faith AND works, that I agree too.

 

[ZNP]

The OP has nothing to do with the accuser of the brethren.

OP -- "For example the Bible says God cannot lie. How then could he create a universe in which there are lies and liars?"

Your first posts were based solely on the title of the thread which I explained in the very first paragraph of the OP was a question others were asking. Yet you attacked me for asking the question.

Why don't you read the OP before confidently affirming it has nothing to do with lies and the accuser of the brethren and overcoming liars.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

OP -- "For example the Bible says God cannot lie. How then could he create a universe in which there are lies and liars?"

What does that have to do with the accuser of the brethren?

Your first posts were based solely on the title of the thread which I explained in the very first paragraph of the OP was a question others were asking. Yet you attacked me for asking the question.

Where is it written “thou shall read more than the title before thou answereth?”

Why don't you read the OP before confidently affirming it has nothing to do with lies and the accuser of the brethren and overcoming liars.

The threads move away from the title as the discussion proceeds.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Yes, I agree that Hebrews 11 showed faith and works are both required. But for those OT saints, they lived before the cross, so the faith that comes apart from works have not been revealed yet.

James was writing to the Jews and he was preaching the gospel of the kingdom, which required faith AND works, that I agree too.

I read this before I knew who wrote it , but I knew it wasnt Z... by the noble spirit of the post. You are worthy of a better theology.

First James, where does he specify that his remarks are only for the Jews? Did he write to the jewish christians or the jews who rejected christ keeping the law instead and how do you know? We’re the jewish christians excluded from his letter?

You do realize that all the believers then actually lived out their faith working their, dare I quote it, salvation out with fear and trembling right?

My very dear G (and I mean that) there is much better way. Consider your salvation not a contract God is obligated to keep but a relationship agreement. Like a marriage, it has a start. But like a marriage, if a party thinks the other does all the work, it will die.

It’s so much better to love Him enough to obey Him. Those who think they needs do nothing for Him will stand before Him one day with nothing whatsoever to give him. Those who keep his teaching even though it involves work will have the joy of giving to God something He cannot buy and is of great value to Him. I would that you know that joy.

 

[ZNP]

What does that have to do with the accuser of the brethren?
Where is it written “thou shall read more than the title before thou answereth?”

The threads move away from the title as the discussion proceeds.

Yes, the thread moved away to a discussion about Satan,

Jn 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

I was bringing this tangential discussion back to the Opening post on the thread. How could God allow this, includes the question of How could God create Satan, who is a liar. I briefly referred to it in the opening post.

 

[Hawkins]

Yes, the thread moved away to a discussion about Satan,

Jn 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

I was bringing this tangential discussion back to the Opening post on the thread. How could God allow this, includes the question of How could God create Satan, who is a liar. I briefly referred to it in the opening post.

Your ask is why a filter of a fish tank has to be dirty. It is so because what purposely to be built is Heaven, everything dirty is allowed to be on earth (the filter) such that the cleanness of Heaven can be secured.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Yes, the thread moved away to a discussion about Satan,

Jn 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

I was bringing this tangential discussion back to the Opening post on the thread. How could God allow this, includes the question of How could God create Satan, who is a liar. I briefly referred to it in the opening post.

Satan wasn’t involved in my posts. Satan wasn’t a liar when God created him. Pretty easy answer.

 

[ZNP]

Your ask is why a filter of a fish tank has to be dirty. It is so because what purposely to be built is Heaven, everything dirty is allowed to be on earth (the filter) such that the cleanness of Heaven can be secured.

Since I didn't ask that I assume this is an analogy. In your analogy I think the question is really why there are dirty things on Earth.

 

[ZNP]

Satan wasn’t involved in my posts. Satan wasn’t a liar when God created him. Pretty easy answer.

Great, and according to scientists shortly after the Big Bang took place the universe was made up of Hydrogen. However, from that Hydrogen we have since created all the other elements we now have. How then did the "hydrogen" that God created become the evil Satan. That is the question.

My answer based on quite a few verses, from Genesis 2 through the end of Revelation, though I have yet to give that verse, is that the Universe is a simulation. All the evil that you see can only be done to the body, it doesn't affect the soul or spirit which are eternal.

The verse in Revelation I have yet to use is this:

Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

When I was going through a very serious grieving this is the verse that really bothered me. How can God wipe away every tear and there is no more pain or sorrow? It is like saying that pain and sorrow are not real.