How Could God allow this?

[fwGod]

We are also required to love God so there are two commandments.

Yes indeed, in Mat.22:36-39 Jesus answered the question, "Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, You shall love thy neighbor as yourself."

It is by loving God that we can love our neighbors as ourselves. Jesus further said in Lk.6:31 "And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also likewise unto them." And in Ephs.4:32, "And be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ has also forgiven you."

However, in particular I was referring to what Jesus said to the disciples in John 13:34-35. In that He did not mention to love God.

"A new commandment I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so also you must love one another. By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you love one another."

 

[Hawkins]

Since I didn't ask that I assume this is an analogy. In your analogy I think the question is really why there are dirty things on Earth.

I think your question in OP is due to a misunderstanding of the big picture.
Earth is not inside God's realm. While everywhere outside of God's realm is supposed to be full of disasters. God's only job in priority here on earth is to save souls. To God to work in a corrupted world like earth is like working in a pool of mud. Staying with sins all the times is not His hobby. He has the right to hide His face from the sinful humans, especially under the circumstance that humans refuse to repent and receive His salvation.

Your stance is from how a human is harmed physically but God's stance is on how souls can be saved. A virus only harms physical lives, it won't make any difference in terms of soul saving as long as humans keep turning away. In contrary, the virus will show humans that how weak and unprepared they are even with modern technology and science. Some of them thus may consider to turn to God after doing themselves a review. A virus in this case can be beneficial to soul saving. That should answer your question on why God allows!

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Great, and according to scientists shortly after the Big Bang took place the universe was made up of Hydrogen. However, from that Hydrogen we have since created all the other elements we now have. How then did the "hydrogen" that God created become the evil Satan. That is the question.

Hydrogen is pretty unstable and not the root of all other elements. Where do they get that idea?? Since scientists can only guess from no science known to man, I wouldn’t place great stock in their guesses.

My answer based on quite a few verses, from Genesis 2 through the end of Revelation, though I have yet to give that verse, is that the Universe is a simulation. All the evil that you see can only be done to the body, it doesn't affect the soul or spirit which are eternal.

At last it comes out. None of that is what Jesus or anyone else taught.

The verse in Revelation I have yet to use is this:

Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

So?

When I was going through a very serious grieving this is the verse that really bothered me. How can God wipe away every tear and there is no more pain or sorrow? It is like saying that pain and sorrow are not real.

It is not saying that at all. They are real. Same as joy is real. Real doesn’t mean eternal.

 

[ZNP]

Your stance is from how a human is harmed physically but God's stance is on how souls can be saved. A virus only harms physical lives, it won't make any difference in terms of soul saving as long as humans keep turning away. In contrary, the virus will show humans that how weak and unprepared they are even with modern technology and science. Some of them thus may consider to turn to God after doing themselves a review. A virus in this case can be beneficial to soul saving. That should answer your question on why God allows!

What you have said here is not that different from what I have said.

 

[ZNP]

At last it comes out.

You got me. I based this on the entire Bible from Gen 1 to Rev 21. Though I have not yet quoted from Genesis 1.

None of that is what Jesus or anyone else taught.

The most central verse to everything I shared was the Lord's word "do not fear him who can kill the body and after that can do nothing, rather fear him who can cast the soul into hell after the body is dead"

Another critical verse I have used is from Hebrews which says "we are surrounded by a great cloud of witnesses Heb 12:1 and "apart from us they cannot be made perfect" Heb 11:40

Other verses where we all appear before the judgement seat (you can see references to this in the gospels, in Paul's writings, in Peter, and in Revelation) were compared to the examination of Sully. Particularly the verse where the Lord said we would be judged for every word we spoke.

This is why it is a good idea for you to actually read what someone writes before you say really stupid things like this. You insult me, make wild accusations but the truth is you haven't read anything I have posted and you even justify that saying there is no rule that you have to read it. No, there is no rule, but accusing me of not looking at what Jesus or the apostles wrote in Post #405 when I have quoted from Jesus, Paul, Peter, Hebrews, and John is libel.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

You got me. I based this on the entire Bible from Gen 1 to Rev 21. Though I have not yet quoted from Genesis 1.

You just claim this. It isn’t so.

The most central verse to everything I shared was the Lord's word "do not fear him who can kill the body and after that can do nothing, rather fear him who can cast the soul into hell after the body is dead"

The connection is not clear.

Another critical verse I have used is from Hebrews which says "we are surrounded by a great cloud of witnesses Heb 12:1 and "apart from us they cannot be made perfect" Heb 11:40

Other verses where we all appear before the judgement seat (you can see references to this in the gospels, in Paul's writings, in Peter, and in Revelation) were compared to the examination of Sully. Particularly the verse where the Lord said we would be judged for every word we spoke.

Wow, you need to apply that to your posts.

This is why it is a good idea for you to actually read what someone writes before you say really stupid things like this. You insult me, make wild accusations but the truth is you haven't read anything I have posted and you even justify that saying there is no rule that you have to read it. No, there is no rule, but accusing me of not looking at what Jesus or the apostles wrote in Post #405 when I have quoted from Jesus, Paul, Peter, Hebrews, and John is libel.

You will be judged by the words you wrote supported by your own standard. Especially yelling above.

 

[Need answers]

If death destroys the flesh, is that good? In heaven there will be no more death or disease.

 

[Hawkins]

What you have said here is not that different from what I have said.

Good then. I only answered what you wrote in OP. I didn't read through the whole thread.

 

[ZNP]

You will be judged by the words you wrote supported by your own standard. Especially yelling above.

I didn't yell. Yelling is denoted by all caps. Red signifies anger. The Bible says be angry and do not sin.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

If death destroys the flesh, is that good? In heaven there will be no more death or disease.

The body is not immortal so whether good or bad, it won’t last.

In heaven there is no death or suffering.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I didn't yell. Yelling is denoted by all caps. Red signifies anger. The Bible says be angry and do not sin.

I don’t think your anger qualifies as not sinning.

 

[ZNP]

Perhaps the best verse in the entire Bible concerning this issue is in Genesis 1:2

2 And the earth was waste and empty, and darkness was on the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

Some translate this the Earth became waste and void, the reason is simple.

Isaiah 45:18
18 For thus saith Jehovah who created the heavens, God himself who formed the earth and made it, he who established it,—not as waste did he create it: he formed it to be inhabited:—I [am] Jehovah, and there is none else.

Isaiah says God didn't create the Earth waste and void yet Genesis 1:2 says the Earth was waste and void. What happened? If God didn't do it, who did? How do you reconcile someone else making His creation waste and void with His omnipotence? This happened long before man sinned, so that is not an explanation. Free will is not an explanation.

 

[Need answers]

In heaven there is no death or suffering.

Exactly why death is not an evil thing. When we die, we put off mortality and put on immortality

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Good then. I only answered what you wrote in OP. I didn't read through the whole thread.

Does anyone read pages and pages of posts?

 

[Jaxxi]

There have been many different threads which have asked this question about Corona virus. Many of the posters assert that God is the creator of all things (agreed) that He is omnipotent and omniscient (agreed) and that given these criteria coronavirus could not have taken place without His allowing it (agreed). He foresaw it would happen (omniscient), He created it (creator of all things) and He had the power to prevent it (omnipotent). I agree with all of this.

Others, also quoting scriptures point out that God is love (agreed), He is a merciful and good God (agreed), in Him is no darkness (agreed), His thoughts for us are good and not evil (agreed). How do you reconcile these two?

This is commonly known as the problem of evil and is a logical argument used by atheists to deny that God exists. Their argument is that the definition of God is that He is the creator of all things (agreed). Evil exists (agreed). Therefore God created evil (disagree and will explain). There are many ways that Christians try to squirm out of this and they are not scriptural. They make Satan (Lucifer was also created by God) into some kind of powerful being who has the ability to create evil and sin even though he is a created being by God (this does not change the fact that if evil exists, it was part of the creation that God created). For example the Bible says God cannot lie. How then could he create a universe in which there are lies and liars?

Therefore I wanted to open this thread up to Christians so that we could examine the scriptures and understand "How could God allow this to happen?"

Well I think since the coronavirus has not been seen before in the 5000 years of mankind, there is a good chance it is manmade. I think our initial response to it will decide how God intervenes, if He does at all. It could be an opportunity for Him to show those lacking faith miracles, or it could be a manmade act of evil that will run its course and put ALOT of blood on someone's hands that they will answer for. Then again it COULD be the ride of the fourth horseman which must come to pass before Jesus can return. If this is the case then we know that our fellow mankind who are falling are not doing so in vain because God is building His army for the battle in our not so distant future. We will know soon as on the timeline we are watching for who is going to sign the 7 year peace treaty with Israel. You know I love howJesus told us exactly what is going to happen and people have been trying to make sense of Revelation for centuries and now for the first time in history WE are able to see the meanings as everybody takes their place on the stage and they are right on time filling in the gaps and bringing Revelation to life. But I think we are at the fourth seal which is followed swiftly by the fifth seal where " Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been." Revelation 6:11. It is written and we who know the truth embrace this as God's will and know it must happen. Fellow Christians, do not fear because there is no death! That is the illusion. Remember it is written, " We know that we are from God and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one." John 1 5:19. It is not for us to know why the evil one has this power over us but we know how it ends! Stay strong! Wear the Armor God gave you- and a facemask!

 

[Guojing]

I read this before I knew who wrote it , but I knew it wasnt Z... by the noble spirit of the post. You are worthy of a better theology.

First James, where does he specify that his remarks are only for the Jews? Did he write to the jewish christians or the jews who rejected christ keeping the law instead and how do you know? We’re the jewish christians excluded from his letter?

You do realize that all the believers then actually lived out their faith working their, dare I quote it, salvation out with fear and trembling right?

My very dear G (and I mean that) there is much better way. Consider your salvation not a contract God is obligated to keep but a relationship agreement. Like a marriage, it has a start. But like a marriage, if a party thinks the other does all the work, it will die.

It’s so much better to love Him enough to obey Him. Those who think they needs do nothing for Him will stand before Him one day with nothing whatsoever to give him. Those who keep his teaching even though it involves work will have the joy of giving to God something He cannot buy and is of great value to Him. I would that you know that joy.

James 1:1 already tells you
James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

And in Galatians 2, James, Peter and John had an agreement with Paul that

9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Well I think since the coronavirus has not been seen before in the 5000 years of mankind, there is a good chance it is manmade. I think our initial response to it will decide how God intervenes, if He does at all. It could be an opportunity for Him to show those lacking faith miracles, or it could be a manmade act of evil that will run its course and put ALOT of blood on someone's hands that they will answer for. Then again it COULD be the ride of the fourth horseman which must come to pass before Jesus can return. If this is the case then we know that our fellow mankind who are falling are not doing so in vain because God is building His army for the battle in our not so distant future. We will know soon as on the timeline we are watching for who is going to sign the 7 year peace treaty with Israel. You know I love howJesus told us exactly what is going to happen and people have been trying to make sense of Revelation for centuries and now for the first time in history WE are able to see the meanings as everybody takes their place on the stage and they are right on time filling in the gaps and bringing Revelation to life. But I think we are at the fourth seal which is followed swiftly by the fifth seal where " Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been." Revelation 6:11. It is written and we who know the truth embrace this as God's will and know it must happen. Fellow Christians, do not fear because there is no death! That is the illusion. Remember it is written, " We know that we are from God and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one." John 1 5:19. It is not for us to know why the evil one has this power over us but we know how it ends! Stay strong! Wear the Armor God gave you- and a facemask!

The Corona virus is similar to the SARS virus seen some years ago.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

James 1:1 already tells you
James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

And in Galatians 2, James, Peter and John had an agreement with Paul that

9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

Pretty good answer to that question. Of course God wouldn’t let them strictly keep it as Peter was sent to the Gentiles first.

So did the Gentile christians think none of that letter applied to them? I can assume you believe none of Hebrews applies to us either right? And of course none of the OT applies to us either right? The commandant to love God is only for the Jews, right?

You do know that some whose faith was seen in their actions weren’t Jews right?

So do you think a Christian can be telling the truth that they have faith in God and still say, steal from others cause they’re out of work and need to have money to live? If not why? What are they supposed to do? The concept of trusting God (having faith) is not connected to choices for the Gentiles in your view. What do you possibly tell people and yourself in times where one is afraid? You can’t tell them to have faith in God because you believe faith is not seen in works and actively having faith so that one isn’t afraid is work.

 

[Guojing]

Pretty good answer to that question. Of course God wouldn’t let them strictly keep it as Peter was sent to the Gentiles first.

So did the Gentile christians think none of that letter applied to them? I can assume you believe none of Hebrews applies to us either right? And of course none of the OT applies to us either right? The commandant to love God is only for the Jews, right?

You do know that some whose faith was seen in their actions weren’t Jews right?

So do you think a Christian can be telling the truth that they have faith in God and still say, steal from others cause they’re out of work and need to have money to live? If not why? What are they supposed to do? The concept of trusting God (having faith) is not connected to choices for the Gentiles in your view. What do you possibly tell people and yourself in times where one is afraid? You can’t tell them to have faith in God because you believe faith is not seen in works and actively having faith so that one isn’t afraid is work.

All scripture is written FOR us, but not all are written TO us or ABOUT us.

Think of the OT, specifically the example of the command God gave to Noah to build an ark. None of us would ever think that is written TO us, but we do learn lessons from that command, how Noah had the faith to believe in God that he would send the flood and thus build an ark, even though no one from that era has probably seen much rain in their lives, as Hebrews 11 indicated.

So likewise, we can learn from the book of James and Hebrews no doubt. But recognize that they were written to the Jews for a specific time period, that will be the doctrine required during the Great Tribulation.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

All scripture is written FOR us, but not all are written TO us or ABOUT us.

So does this mean you reject or accept as binding on you the words of James, Hebrews and the command to love God and how do you decide?

Think of the OT, specifically the example of the command God gave to Noah to build an ark. None of us would ever think that is written TO us, but we do learn lessons from that command, how Noah had the faith to believe in God that he would send the flood and thus build an ark, even though no one from that era has probably seen much rain in their lives, as Hebrews 11 indicated.

Lets stick to the words of James and Hebrews as those books you say do not apply to you but just the jewish believers.

So likewise, we can learn from the book of James and Hebrews no doubt.

Then what can we learn since (your position is) God intends none of what they write to us but just the jews?

But recognize that they were written to the Jews for a specific time period, that will be the doctrine required during the Great Tribulation.

So when that occurs the words of James will apply only to the few jewish believers? At that time alone will faith be seen to be connected with works (choices?)

How does that work since who is from what tribe is lost? Many who think they are jewish have no blood line at all to Abraham.

G, I’m taking your position on a large matter, faith requires no outward action to be real (works) and applying it to more of life. I do this to myself for positions I take as well and have for years.

When I have an idea or theory, I test it by applying other conditions. I work in science and that’s what we do. Z thinks I’m twisting his words, but I’m testing them as any good Berean ought to do. “If this is true then....”. This is also how I’ve come to understand a fair bit about the Bible and God. The truth will stand the test, untruth falls apart.