• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

How come humans have not evolved into a higher species?

dad

Undefeated!
Site Supporter
Jan 17, 2005
44,905
1,259
✟25,524.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
It means you are entirely wrong about evolution. We have evolved, and continue to evolve. Genetics shows all living things on Earth have a common ancestor. That is all.
I am right about evolution. It is a God-given as breathing and has zero to do with where man came from.


Yes. Evolution is His plan, not ours.
As is reproduction, however obviously we need to be created first.

Evolution is the ability of populations to adapt.
Not TOE. That is claiming flatworms and bananas are relatives and that the evolving is responsible for man and life on earth.

For reasons not clear, Cro-magnons evolved a more progressive adaptation of new technology than previous humans like Neandertals and Denesovans.
As people traveled around after the flood, various adaptations were needed. It is expected that differences in people and animals would exist.
No. Cro-magnons existed long before there was a flood.
No, they are post-flood men.

Indeed, they lived side by side with Neandertals in a number of cases, and at least once Neandertals adopted Cro-magnon technology.
Great, so what? Why would people not live near other people and trade or learn from them?
 
Upvote 0

MrsFoundit

Well-Known Member
Dec 5, 2019
899
200
South
✟48,276.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Upvote 0

The Barbarian

Crabby Old White Guy
Apr 3, 2003
29,318
13,093
78
✟435,933.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
'The concept of evolution helps us understand the entirety of life — including what it means to be human. I say that if you really want to appreciate life — and our place in it — brush up on your evolution. And embrace this worldview. As my friend David Sloan Wilson emphasizes in his work on the Evolution Institute, and as Darwin famously wrote over 150 years ago: "There is grandeur in this view of life."'
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...712/three-reasons-embrace-darwinian-worldview

While much of this is true, and Darwinian theory has been amazingly successful in answering many, many questions in biology and other disciplines, it's not a comprehensive worldview. Much of our universe involves other natural processes that are not accessible to evolutionary theory. Theories only apply to the predictions they make, and evolutionary theory involves the way living populations change over time.

Where the theory applies, it's perhaps the most successful of scientific theories:
Evolution is not a theory in crisis. It is not teetering on the verge of collapse. It has not failed as a scientific explanation. There is evidence for evolution, gobs and gobs of it. It is not just speculation or a faith choice or an assumption or a religion. It is a productive framework for lots of biological research, and it has amazing explanatory power. There is no conspiracy to hide the truth about the failure of evolution. There has really been no failure of evolution as a scientific theory. It works, and it works well.

I say these things not because I'm crazy or because I've "converted" to evolution. I say these things because they are true. I'm motivated this morning by reading yet another clueless, well-meaning person pompously declaring that evolution is a failure. People who say that are either unacquainted with the inner workings of science or unacquainted with the evidence for evolution.

YE creationist Todd Wood
The truth about evolution
 
Upvote 0

dad

Undefeated!
Site Supporter
Jan 17, 2005
44,905
1,259
✟25,524.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
It seems to be just that.

Looking at the link I see these points

"1. Evolutionary principles help us solve problems of humanity"
The big problem they ignore is a fallen world - sin. That causes death and all the problems in the world. Rejecting the truth of God and creation is the problem, rather than solving anything.

"2. Evolution explains so much in the world around us"
It tries to explain creation without the creator. Those sort of explanations in the bible are called lies.

"3. Evolution connects humans with the entirety of life"

Evolution connects people to doubts and hell and Satan and cuts them off from the truth. Evolution tries to make mankind like the rest of the creatures, rather than as the highest creation for which the rest was made.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: MrsFoundit
Upvote 0

joshua 1 9

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 11, 2015
17,420
3,593
Northern Ohio
✟314,607.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
No. Cro-magnons existed long before there was a flood.
The real flood took place around 200 million years ago when Pangaea was destroyed. Long before Cro-magnans came along.
 
Upvote 0

joshua 1 9

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 11, 2015
17,420
3,593
Northern Ohio
✟314,607.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
In Science, Theories are not just someone's opinion, they have been tested.
Science is a method for testing opinions called hypothesis. If something is not tested then it is not true Science. We need what has been tested, tried & found to be true in Science and in our Religion. Far to often Science will not deliver for us. They lack answers and they lack solutions. God always has the answer and the solution for us.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: MrsFoundit
Upvote 0

joshua 1 9

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 11, 2015
17,420
3,593
Northern Ohio
✟314,607.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
How do you arrive at that time?
From the work done by Edward Cobert on the Coelophysis dinosaur deposits found in flood plains of the rocky mountains and other flood plains around the world. 60 years ago plate technotics was a theory that had not been proven. NOW this has been proven to a large extent by doing a study on dinosaurs in mostly the rocky mountains but other parts of the world also. I spent about three months once doing a study of Ghost Ranch in Northern New Mexico. It was Edward Cobert that did a lot of the work. Mostly what he studied was the dinosaur deposits in floodplains in the Rocky mountains all the way from New Mexico to Montana. It was Coelophysis a rather small dinosaur that their study was based on. Utah has a dinosaur museums now also. They are very rich in these dinosaur bone deposits. It has been a few years sense I last studied this. So I am sure there is a lot of new information on the subject. This also has to do with the ring of fire and plate tectonics in the Pacific. The remains that we study of the Coelophysis goes back about 200 million years 216 to 196 million years ago. There was also an artist georgia o'keeffe that lived at the ranch. She did a lot of paintings there. Also they filmed a movie at that ranch with Billy Crystal. City Slickers. The main point is world wide the Coelophysis bones were found in flood deposits. This means there was a world wide flood at that time. This is all hidden in the story of Noah that we read about in our Bible.
cleveland-coelophysis.jpg
dino.png
 

Attachments

  • Coelophysis_bauri_mount.jpg
    Coelophysis_bauri_mount.jpg
    400.2 KB · Views: 2
  • 740304_ra511.jpg
    740304_ra511.jpg
    94.8 KB · Views: 5
Last edited:
Upvote 0

The Barbarian

Crabby Old White Guy
Apr 3, 2003
29,318
13,093
78
✟435,933.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
The real flood took place around 200 million years ago when Pangaea was destroyed. Long before Cro-magnans came along.

Pangea wasn't destroyed. It broke into pieces, which moved a few centimeters a year in different directions. If it moved as fast as a kilometer a year as some suppose, the crust would have melted from the friction.

And the flood of Noah, if it was literal, took place long after that.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

The Barbarian

Crabby Old White Guy
Apr 3, 2003
29,318
13,093
78
✟435,933.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
60 years ago plate technotics was a theory that had not been proven.

For a good look at geology from about that time, read The Way The Earth Works by Peter J. Wyllie. John Wylie and Sons, 1976. His little book is an accessible summary of the then-new science of plate tectonics.
 
Upvote 0

joshua 1 9

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 11, 2015
17,420
3,593
Northern Ohio
✟314,607.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
And the flood of Noah, if it was literal, took place long after that.
Noah's flood was what we call a local flood. This is what they call an archetype or a modern term is paradigm. The actual world wide flood took place 200 million years before. The plants and animals of Eden were saved on Noah's ark. Science calls this a bio diverse eco system. Eden was very special in that this is where we find domesticated plants and animals. Noah could not have survived if he did not save all of the plants and animals in his world. (what we call an eco system). Science has put a lot of work into the study of how farming spread from the middle east to Europe.
 
Upvote 0

joshua 1 9

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 11, 2015
17,420
3,593
Northern Ohio
✟314,607.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
which moved a few centimeters a year in different directions.
I started a thread on catastrophic theory vs gradualism. Every day we turn on the news and see catastrophic conditions somewhere in the world. We know that Darwin got his gradualism from a geologist. It was actually atheist Elliot Gould that took science from gradualism back to punctuated equilibrium. Actually his agnostic buddy Niles Eldredge is 76. He is still alive and well. Gould's evolution theory that anything can happen has pretty much been falsified. It has been shown that the laws remain consistant so anywhere you go in the universe things are going to function the same way they do here. You will end up with pretty much all the same results as we see in our world. In fact the Greek word for world: Kosmos is now Cosmos and means the entire universe and not just the world or the Earth. In your example we can look at what took place recently in Japan with the tidal wave. The plates may move very slow but then they slip and make a rapid movement that causes earthquakes and catastrophic conditions.
 
Upvote 0

The Barbarian

Crabby Old White Guy
Apr 3, 2003
29,318
13,093
78
✟435,933.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
I started a thread on catastrophic theory vs gradualism. Every day we turn on the news and see catastrophic conditions somewhere in the world. We know that Darwin got his gradualism from a geologist.

Which would be ironic, since the geologist (Lyell) was a uniformitarian, not a gradualist. Uniformitarians recognize that discontinuous events are part of the way the world works. Lyell was cognizant of floods and earthquakes, for example.

Uniformitarianism, also known as the Doctrine of Uniformity, is the assumption that the same natural laws and processes that operate in our present-day scientific observations have always operated in the universe in the past and apply everywhere in the universe.
Uniformitarianism - Wikipedia

It was actually atheist Elliot Gould that took science from gradualism back to punctuated equilibrium.

This guy?
172992__22487.1519234073.500.500.jpg


No, this guy...
050520_stephen_gould_vsm.grid-4x2.jpg

Stephan Gould was a professed agnostic, who once suggested that a god might have created us, because he wanted someone to share it with him.

And Darwin's inclination to gradualism was challenged almost immediately by his defender Thomas Huxley:
But Huxley argued that saltation or evolution by “jumps” better described the geological record with its abrupt appearance of most forms than the gradual change that Darwin advocated. On the eve of the publication of The Origin he cautioned Darwin, “You have loaded yourself with an unnecessary difficulty in adopting Natura non facit saltum so unreservedly” (Nature does not make jumps) (November 23, 1859, LLTHH, 1, 189).
A Most Eminent Victorian: Thomas Henry Huxley

He is still alive and well. Gould's evolution theory that anything can happen has pretty much been falsified.

Do you have a source for Gould expressing that idea? I don't find it in his opus The Structure of Evolutionary Theory.

It has been shown that the laws remain consistant so anywhere you go in the universe things are going to function the same way they do here.

That's uniformitarianism.

You will end up with pretty much all the same results as we see in our world.

You'll see analogies. The same things, but from different stuff. For example, South America was isolated from other continents at a critical time, and so perissodactyls like horses never got there. But there evolved a species of lipotern that would have been mistaken for a horse by anyone not very familiar with horse anatomy.

New world and old world vultures look almost identical, but only new world vultures(not all of them) depend on smell rather than sight; old world vultures are evolved from raptors and new world vultures evolved from the group that includes storks.

Kangaroos filled the niche occupied by cattle in other continents, and the Australian marsupial Thylacine was strongly homologous to canids in other continents.

There are also Australian marsupial versions of placental moles and placental flying squirrels. So you have that right.

In fact the Greek word for world: Kosmos is now Cosmos and means the entire universe and not just the world or the Earth. In your example we can look at what took place recently in Japan with the tidal wave. The plates may move very slow but then they slip and make a rapid movement that causes earthquakes and catastrophic conditions.

The movement is at most a few meters, normally a few centimeters. And the long movements are usually when there's lubrication at the fault.
 
Last edited:
  • Agree
Reactions: Brightmoon
Upvote 0

joshua 1 9

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 11, 2015
17,420
3,593
Northern Ohio
✟314,607.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Which would be ironic, since the geologist (Lyell) was a uniformitarian, not a gradualist.
"In the natural sciences, gradualism is the theory which holds that profound change is the cumulative product of slow but continuous processes, often contrasted with catastrophism. The theory was proposed in 1795 by James Hutton, a Scottish geologist, and was later incorporated into Charles Lyell's theory of uniformitarianism. Tenets from both theories were applied to biology and formed the basis of early evolutionary theory." Wiki

I now know more then I did, so that is fine. Gould was anything but a uniformitarian. We do see this promoted in Evo Dev today.
 
Upvote 0

The Barbarian

Crabby Old White Guy
Apr 3, 2003
29,318
13,093
78
✟435,933.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
Upvote 0

LoG

Veteran
Site Supporter
May 14, 2005
1,363
118
✟92,704.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Early on, he wrote a paper challenging classical uniformitarianism, asserting that two of its four principles are unnecessary.
Is uniformitarianism necessary?

I find his reasoning for wanting to do so enlightening as per this longer abstract:

Is Uniformitarianism Necessary'?
Stephen Jay Gould
Abstract
Uniformitarianism is a dual concept. Substantive uniformitarianism (a testable theory of geologic change postulating uniformity of rates or material conditions) is false and stifling to hypothesis formation. Methodological uniformitarianism (a procedural principle asserting spatial and temporal invariance of natural laws) belongs to the definition of science and is not unique to geology. Methodological uniformitarianism enabled Lyell to exclude the miraculous from geologic explanation; its invocation today is anachronistic since the question of divine intervention is no longer an issue in science. Substantive uniformitarianism, an incorrect theory, should be abandoned. Methodological uniformitarianism, now a superfluous term, is best confined to the past history of geology.

Stephen Jay Gould, Is Uniformitarianism Necessary'? - PhilPapers

A catastrophic event is only miraculous when one doesn't know or understand the natural laws and dynamics behind it. It is the job of science to figure out what those are, not plug its eyes and ears and pretend those events didn't happen.
 
Upvote 0

The Barbarian

Crabby Old White Guy
Apr 3, 2003
29,318
13,093
78
✟435,933.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
A catastrophic event is only miraculous when one doesn't know or understand the natural laws and dynamics behind it. It is the job of science to figure out what those are, not plug its eyes and ears and pretend those events didn't happen.

God could of course to a miracle like that, but as we see, He does most everything in this world by natural means. He doesn't do miracles because He has to; it's always to teach us something.
 
Upvote 0

joshua 1 9

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 11, 2015
17,420
3,593
Northern Ohio
✟314,607.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
he wrote a paper challenging classical uniformitarianism
He got a lot of stuff wrong. He believed that if we started all over again from the beginning evolution would have gotten different results. This is how they came up with planet of the ape type of movies. We now know that the laws are consistent everywhere in the Universe so the results are going to pretty much turn out the same.

Miracles tend to restore the law. Not violate it. Miracles are difficult to prove because everything is restored to normal and the way it all should be. Even God does a work in our life to get us back on track to becoming the people that He created us to be.
 
Upvote 0

joshua 1 9

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 11, 2015
17,420
3,593
Northern Ohio
✟314,607.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Do you have a source for Gould expressing that idea?
There is a BBC article: "Gould reckoned that if time was rewound, then evolution would drive life down a completely different path and humans would never re-evolve." Would humans evolve again if we rewound time? Gould was pretty much in conflict with the Universe itself. The law of attraction people say this can cause a lot of problem and could be why his health was not good.
 
Upvote 0