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Featured How come good Friday is only two days from Easter Sunday?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Andrew4jesus, Apr 25, 2017.

  1. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Junior Member

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    Keenly and correctly observed. Well done and thanks.
     
  2. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    I quoted Jewish sources. I could not find one instance when the Talmud calls ULB a Sabbath.
    JPS Exodus 12:18 In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at even, ye shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the month at even.
    JPS Leviticus 23:5 In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at dusk, is the LORD'S passover.
    Talmud Book 3: Tracts Tracts Pesachim, Yomah and Hagiga CHAPTER V.
    If the eve of Passover, however. fell on Friday, when the paschal lamb must be roasted before the Sabbath set in, the literal text of the passage in the Scriptures is abided by, and the daily offering is slaughtered as soon as the sun commences setting towards the west, i.e., half an hour after noon.
    ...
    R. Eliezer says: "If the 14th (of Nissan) occurred on a Sabbath, one person would place his left hand on the right shoulder of another, the latter would place his right hand on the left shoulder of the former, and thus suspending the sacrifice on the arms would remove the skin with their right hands."
    Tract Pesachim (Passover): Chapter V: Regulations Concerning the Sacrifice of the Paschal Lamb

    CHAPTER VI.
    "For," said R. Eliezer, "this is surely a logical sequence; if slaughtering an animal, which is prohibited on the Sabbath as being a principal act of labor, is allowed in this instance (of the Passover) and even supersedes the Sabbath, does it not follow that these two acts, which are only prohibited by rabbinical law, should also in this instance supersede the Sabbath?" R. Jehoshua answered and said: "The laws concerning the festival will prove the contrary; for many things prohibited on the Sabbath as being principal acts of labor are nevertheless permitted on the festival,

    How can the Passover-sacrifice, however, be brought as an ordinary animal in the Temple on the Sabbath? It is not allowed to consecrate things on the Sabbath? This applies only to ordinary articles which were to be consecrated, but not to such as it was a duty to consecrate; for R. Johanan said, that Passover sacrifices may be consecrated on a Sabbath and a festival sacrifice on a festival.

    Tract Pesachim (Passover): Chapter VI: Regulations Concerning Acts Which Supersede the Due Observance of the Sabbath; The Paschal Offering; What if One Sacrifice is Confounded with Another

    MISHNA: If the fourteenth (of Nissan) fall on the Sabbath, all leaven must be removed
    before the Sabbath commences. Such is the dictum of R. Meir; but the sages say that it should be done at the proper time. R. Elazer 1ben Zadok says: "The heave-offering must be removed before the Sabbath, and non-consecrated things at the proper time."

    Tract Pesachim (Passover): Chapter III: Regulations Concerning Articles Which Cause Transgression of the Law Prohibiting Leaven to be Seen or Found in the House of an Israelite.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2017
  3. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Junior Member

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    “Preparation Day was”, “the great day”, ONLY “because it was”,
    (1, because John wrote it; and ONLY
    (2, “because it was” the passover, historically.

    It was not the Sabbath because historically, it was not. And it was not the Sabbath because John did not write, it was the Sabbath.

    But John wrote of “the Preparation”, that it, “was”; and of “the Preparation”, that “the day was great of” it --of the Preparation Day.

    John did not write, <<the Sabbath>> or ‘of the Sabbath’; he wrote, “of THAT sabbath”—“THAT sabbath” of the passover. It was “THIS THAT BONE-DAY” of the passover-“sabbath”. Leviticus 23:11,15,16.
     
  4. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Junior Member

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    Blatant Scripture is, "The disciples made ready the passover"; not, 'ate the passover'--your, <<alternate interpretation>>, that cannot be made for it.
     
  5. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Junior Member

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    With pleasure, mam,
    The source of this, dear lady, is you, here,
    https://www.christianforums.com/threads/how-come-good-friday-is-only-two-days-from-easter-sunday.8004545/page-70#post-71280271#1383
    And where I quoted you, first lady, was here,
    https://www.christianforums.com/threads/how-come-good-friday-is-only-two-days-from-easter-sunday.8004545/page-70#1394
     
  6. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    There is no such thing as a bone day. The words bone and day do not occur in the same verse anywhere in the 1917 Jewish Publication Society translation of the OT or the 225 BC LXX translation. If there was a "bone day" surely the native Hebrew speaking Jewish scholars who translated these two versions would certainly have included it in their translations.
    The Hebrew word עצם/etsem occurs 22 times in the OT. It is translated "bone" eleven times Here is the relevant definition from Brown Driver Briggs Hebrew lexicon.

    H6106 עצם etsem
    1) bone, essence, substance
    1a) bone
    1a1) body, limbs, members, external body
    1b) bond (of animal)
    1c) substance , self


     
  7. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    So to this Gentile layperson, what Western day of the week was Jesus crucified, Friday, or earlier? I would like to hear from everyone.

    Simply say the day of the week, so I can understand when reading your long posts, which day you are talking about.

    Thanks everybody!
     
  8. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    Friday, See my discussion why in my [post #282] this thread.
     
  9. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Junior Member

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    "BEFORE the feast" John 19:1,2. "The feast" was the day from "evening the Preparation ... since the Preparation was / began" Mark 15:42 John 19:31 Luke 23:50 Matthew 27:57 until "That Day the Preparation ending the Sabbath nearing" Luke 23:54.

    Therefore the day "BEFORE the feast...the Preparation".

    Call it Thursday if you like. John called it "The Preparation-Day-of-the-Passover" Feast-day / sabbath which Feast-day-sabbath was on Firday "the Preparation which is the Fore-Sabbath". John 19:14 Mark 15:42

    .
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2017
  10. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Junior Member

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    NO priests were involved in getting the bodies down! Down for what? The priests were only interested in getting Pilate so far as to get the crosses bodies and all taken away before daylight would advertise them to the world as emblems of Roman bondage on Freedom Day of the Jews.

    Remarkable history that in 1948 David Ben Gurion proclaimed "That Day BONE Day" the national day of the sovereign State of Israel. Bitter irony! Israel-Juda FOREVER FORFEITED true independence and sovereignty "THAT DAY...the day of that passover-sabbath was great."
     
  11. ImAHebrew

    ImAHebrew Active Member Supporter

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    Shalom Der Alter, I was only commenting on the fact that you believe the 15th fell on the Sabbath, not the 14th.

    How do you rectify what the commentators say about Luke 6:1. They almost all consider the 15th day of the 1st month to be a Sabbath in their explanations. Here is what they say:

    Gill
    JFB
    Poole
    Der Alter, how is it that these commentators can call the festival days "sabbaths," and you, along with the Apostle John cannot? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
     
  12. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    Thank you, but all I needed was "Thursday."
     
  13. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Junior Member

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    Refer
    http://www.biblestudents.co.za/books/Book%203,%201,%202,%203.Pentecost.pdf
    pp 193 to 198
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2017
  14. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    What part of the sources I posted do you not understand?
    What historical evidence do these "commentators" provide to support their conclusion?
    There is nothing to rectify with the scholars you posted.

    Gill: "But what seems most likely is, that this sabbath was, as it may be rendered,;the first sabbath after the second day of the passover.
    "Seems most likely" Speculation not a definitive statement. Also it does not say "the first Sabbath after the second Sabbath" but "the first sabbath after the second day of the passover."
    JFB": an obscure expression, occurring here only, generally understood [by whom?] to mean, the first sabbath after the second day of unleavened bread. The reasons cannot be stated here, nor is the opinion itself quite free from difficulty.
    "Obscure expression" "not quite free from difficulty." Not definitive.
    Poole "Some understand [Who?] by the second sabbath after the first, the seventh day of the feast of unleavened bread. Others, [Who?] their second great festival. It is very hard to resolve, and not material for us to know. For the history itself:"
    Two different opinions "very hard to resolve, and not material for us to know." Not definitive.
    Matthew Henry
    "This story here has a date, which we had not in the other evangelists; it was on the second sabbath after the first (Luk_6:1), that is, as Dr. Whitby thinks is pretty clear, the first sabbath after the second day of unleavened bread, from which day they reckoned the seven weeks to the feast of pentecost; the first of which they called Sabbaton deuteroprōton, the second deuterodeuteron, and so on."
     
  15. Jan001

    Jan001 Newbie Supporter

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    Jesus replaced the first covenant with His new covenant, but the Jews today believe that their first covenant (Law of Moses) is still in effect.

    BUT, the fact is that the believing Jews (PETER. JAMES, JOHN, and thousands of other Jews) converted to Christianity (New Covenant) in the first century A.D. before the temple was destroyed. Therefore, the first covenant that pertained to the Jews is no longer in effect. The Jews today believe that they are still under the first covenant, but they are mistaken, and if these Jews ever begin to offer animal sacrifices to God, they will tremendously anger God. God sent His own Son to offer Himself as the perfect sacrifice 2000 years ago.

    14 Simeon has related how God first visited the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. 15 And with this the words of the prophets agree, as it is written,
    16 ‘After this I will return,
    and I will rebuild the dwelling of David, which has fallen;
    I will rebuild its ruins,
    and I will set it up,
    17 that the rest of men may seek the Lord,
    and all the Gentiles who are called by my name
    ,
    18 says the Lord, who has made these things known from of old.’ rsv
    God personally visited the Gentiles two thousand years before Peter visited them and it was God who called out Abram out of the Gentiles (Semitic Hebrews) for Himself in order to make him (Abraham) the biological father of His Chosen People.

    David was born a thousand years after Abraham. David's kingdom was in ruins when Jesus Christ was born. But, Jesus Christ, the new Davidic king, died as a ransom for all mankind.

    Jesus Christ's death on the cross has made it possible for all peoples of all nations to become His disciples and His death has made it possible for all people to inherit eternal life. (Not everyone will become His disciple and not everyone will inherit eternal life.)

    Peter preached to the Gentiles a thousand years after David died.

    Acts 15:7-9
    Peter rose and said to them, “Brethren, you know that in the early days (OF CHRISTIANITY) God made choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles (CORNELIUS WAS THE FIRST GENTILE TO HEAR PETER PREACH) should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 And God who knows the heart bore witness to them, giving them the Holy Spirit just as he did to us; 9 and he made no distinction between us (JEWS) and them (GENTILES), but cleansed their hearts by faith. rsv​
     
  16. Jan001

    Jan001 Newbie Supporter

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    You are correct. Neither Timothy nor Titus needed to be circumcised. Both were Christians.

    Titus became a Christian when he heard Paul preach the gospel to the Gentiles. Titus accompanied Paul to Jerusalem to attend the Council in Jerusalem. However, Titus did not continue to accompany Paul after the Council in Jerusalem.

    After the Council in Jerusalem, it was Timothy, not Titus, who went with Paul to preach the gospel to the Jews who still practiced Judaism.

    The Jews who still practiced Judaism would not have accepted either Paul or Timothy in their midst if Timothy had not been circumcised. Both Paul and Timothy would have been shunned. Jews who practiced Judaism did not associate with uncircumcised men and Paul would have also been shunned because of his association with an uncircumcised man.
     
  17. Jan001

    Jan001 Newbie Supporter

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    Timothy's mother converted to Christianity before she married and so Timothy was born to Christian parents. All Christians are equal in dignity in the Body/Church of Jesus Christ. It is baptism which makes a male person a disciple of Jesus Christ. It is not circumcision which makes a male person a disciple of Jesus Christ. Matthew 28:19

    Christian males are not ever circumcised for religious reasons. That is why Timothy was not circumcised. Timothy was born to parents who practiced Christianity, not to parents who practiced Judaism.
     
  18. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Junior Member

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    I said before...

    There were two moments or situations where time was of the essence during the three days of Jesus' Last Passover of Yahweh Suffering.

    One, as the result of the darkness that was driven out by bright daylight and there was an earthquake "the ninth hour" when Jesus died and "everybody RUSHED AWAY breast-beating", FOR FEAR!

    Two, After Pilate had given Joseph permission to have the body of Jesus after he on the Jews' request had sent soldiers to crush the bones of the crucified so that they would sooner die and their bodies and crosses could be taken away out of sight, and Joseph had to hurry to be in time to prevent Jesus' already dead body to be thrown away, and he could receive it for proper -passover- burial.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2017
  19. ImAHebrew

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    Shalom Jan001, I thought that Timothy was circumcised by Paul (Acts 16:3). Are you sure you have this correctly understood? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
     
  20. ImAHebrew

    ImAHebrew Active Member Supporter

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    Shalom Der Alter, this is a real good post for someone who likes to follow after all of these "authorities." Their consensus was that the most reasonable explanation is that the 1st day of ULB was considered to be a Sabbath. I know, you always state that there is NO SCRIPTURE which "word for word" calls these days of "holy convocation" and these days of "rest" SABBATHS. So if you are not in agreement with them, what else is there for me to say? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
     
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