How Christians should respond to new space images

[BeyondET]

Not hardly. Day, morning evening. Pretty clear terms if you are being honest with the text.

O I see you think I'm not being honest?

Because I don't agree with it being 24 hours each day doesn't equal dishonesty. It's called debating. Or are you trying to bate me?

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

O I see you think I'm not being honest?

Because I don't agree with it being 24 hours each day doesn't equal dishonesty. It's called debating. Or are you trying to bate me?

"Honest with the text" means to treat the words as they are commonly used and understood. Settle down, karen.

 

[BeyondET]

"Honest with the text" means to treat the words as they are commonly used and understood. Settle down, karen.

You are implying I don't read the text honestly and theres no need for the comedian remarks.

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

Your implying I dont read the text honestly and theres no need for the comedian remarks.

It's ok. I'll be ignoring you.

 

[BeyondET]

It's ok. I'll be ignoring you.

It's OK, I'm here if you ever want to chat again brother.

 

[coffee4u]

Show me some sound scripture on creation each day was 24 hours?

First of all you have the basic reading in Genesis. Genesis Chapter 1, we all know it.
And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.
And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.
And so on. If God intended us to read this and think creation took millions or billions of years, then why use language like evening and morning that defines a normal day as the earth rotates? If this was meant to convey even thousands of years different language could have been used. but Mosses took great pains to repeat evening and morning over and over again.
To me this is good enough, but lets say we are not sure because scripture should never be read in isolation.

We know this is also reflected in Exodus 20.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
The creation days are the basis for our week and God reaffirms that he made everything in 6 days including the heaven and earth within that. Not just what got created on top of the earth like plants and animals.

If someone wants to claim that Adam was a parable, a character in a story then they could easily claim the same of Jesus. If we believe Jesus is real we should also believe that Adam was real.
Both the Old and New Testament reaffirms that Adam was a real historical figure just as Jesus was.
1 Corinthians 15:47 The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven.

Jude 1:14 It was also about these that Enoch, the seventh from Adam, ​

Luke 3:38 The son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God. ​

So given that he was a real man who is included in the linage of Jesus, he also had to die. If day 6 means anything other than 24 hours than his life time becomes meaningless because we are told that there was day 6, there was day 7 and some time after that the fall occurred. Yet Adam lived for 930 years. If day 6 were a thousand years then Adam would have been dead before day 7 even dawned but we know he enjoyed a long life.
After Seth was born, Adam lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters. Altogether, Adam lived 930 years, and then he died.​

Since nothing in the actual text even suggests thousands of years the next question is why think it might mean that at all?
What is gained by it and how does it fit with Adams life span? Certainly belief in a thousand years isn't a call to evolution since that is looking at millions and billions of years not thousands.

Acts 3:21 tells us the earth will be restored, restored back to what? Back to evolution and death?
No it will be restored back to the perfection of Eden.
whom heaven must receive until the time for restoring all the things about which God spoke by the mouth of his holy prophets long ago.
This only makes sense if Eden, the creation, was also free of death and suffering. You cannot have evolution without million of years of death and suffering. The Gospel itself is centered on the fact that Jesus is the second Adam. He was tested and found sinless so he could die for us. His death gave us salvation from our sin but it did not grant us salvation from death itself. Death is still with us and will be until the resurrection and God tosses death into the lake of fire and remakes the world back to what it was at the beginning.
Rev
Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. ​

4‘He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and there will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain,
for the former things have passed away.”

The new world even has the tree of life restored, not once but twice. Instead of a tree of good and evil another tree of life is there. Since there is no choosing anymore. That has been fulfilled. So there is no way to corrupt the new earth.
Rev 22 And he showed me a river of the water of life, clear as crystal, coming from the throne of God and of the Lamb,
2 in the middle of its street. On either side of the river was the tree of life, bearing twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit every month; and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 3 There will no longer be any curse;
The curse of Genesis 3 which included death of the body will be no more because it has been restored back to its pristine state.
Real curse-real fall, real fall- real sin and real people, real people with a real life span. A real life span that only makes sense if each day is an actual day.

 

[BeyondET]

First of all you have the basic reading in Genesis. Genesis Chapter 1, we all know it.
And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.
And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.
And so on. If God intended us to read this and think creation took millions or billions of years, then why use language like evening and morning that defines a normal day as the earth rotates? If this was meant to convey even thousands of years different language could have been used. but Mosses took great pains to repeat evening and morning over and over again.
To me this is good enough, but lets say we are not sure because scripture should never be read in isolation.

We know this is also reflected in Exodus 20.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
The creation days are the basis for our week and God reaffirms that he made everything in 6 days including the heaven and earth within that. Not just what got created on top of the earth like plants and animals.

If someone wants to claim that Adam was a parable, a character in a story then they could easily claim the same of Jesus. If we believe Jesus is real we should also believe that Adam was real.
Both the Old and New Testament reaffirms that Adam was a real historical figure just as Jesus was.
1 Corinthians 15:47 The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven.

Jude 1:14 It was also about these that Enoch, the seventh from Adam, ​

Luke 3:38 The son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God. ​

So given that he was a real man who is included in the linage of Jesus, he also had to die. If day 6 means anything other than 24 hours than his life time becomes meaningless because we are told that there was day 6, there was day 7 and some time after that the fall occurred. Yet Adam lived for 930 years. If day 6 were a thousand years then Adam would have been dead before day 7 even dawned but we know he enjoyed a long life.
After Seth was born, Adam lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters. Altogether, Adam lived 930 years, and then he died.​

Since nothing in the actual text even suggests thousands of years the next question is why think it might mean that at all?
What is gained by it and how does it fit with Adams life span? Certainly belief in a thousand years isn't a call to evolution since that is looking at millions and billions of years not thousands.

Acts 3:21 tells us the earth will be restored, restored back to what? Back to evolution and death?
No it will be restored back to the perfection of Eden.
whom heaven must receive until the time for restoring all the things about which God spoke by the mouth of his holy prophets long ago.
This only makes sense if Eden, the creation, was also free of death and suffering. You cannot have evolution without million of years of death and suffering. The Gospel itself is centered on the fact that Jesus is the second Adam. He was tested and found sinless so he could die for us. His death gave us salvation from our sin but it did not grant us salvation from death itself. Death is still with us and will be until the resurrection and God tosses death into the lake of fire and remakes the world back to what it was at the beginning.
Rev
Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. ​

4‘He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and there will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain,
for the former things have passed away.”

The new world even has the tree of life restored, not once but twice. Instead of a tree of good and evil another tree of life is there. Since there is no choosing anymore. That has been fulfilled. So there is no way to corrupt the new earth.
Rev 22 And he showed me a river of the water of life, clear as crystal, coming from the throne of God and of the Lamb,
2 in the middle of its street. On either side of the river was the tree of life, bearing twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit every month; and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 3 There will no longer be any curse;
The curse of Genesis 3 which included death of the body will be no more because it has been restored back to its pristine state.
Real curse-real fall, real fall- real sin and real people, real people with a real life span. A real life span that only makes sense if each day is an actual day.

But God intended it for the people in those times as well not just our understanding and knowledge.

And it's also for future generations for what they will know beyond this time.

 

[Sabertooth]

YEC is in conflict with certain cosmologies, but not with observed phenomena. We just don't know how they fit, yet.

 

[BeyondET]

YEC is in conflict with certain cosmologies, but not with observed phenomena. We just don't know how they fit, yet.

There's been some new findings of the lights from James Webb Tele, fully formed galaxies breaking rules about how fast galaxies form. Technically YGC. It appears fast and slow are part of the universe.

 

[BeyondET]

First of all you have the basic reading in Genesis. Genesis Chapter 1, we all know it.
And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.
And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.
And so on. If God intended us to read this and think creation took millions or billions of years, then why use language like evening and morning that defines a normal day as the earth rotates?

My opinion if we step back in time way back. Stand in their shoes we would have rudimentary knowledge of the length of time even before the sundial the first measurement that man used for time. Back then evening and morning was the most elusive difficult part of the day to figure out they couldn't. When there's light but no sunrise to cast a shadow to gauge time. To them that was unknown, today we know it's around 18 minutes each evening and morning. That fact today means nothing to people we got cell phones.

 

[coffee4u]

But God intended it for the people in those times as well not just our understanding and knowledge.

And it's also for future generations for what they will know beyond this time.

Not answering a single question?

I'm unsure how your reply relates to what I said. Yes it was for the people at that time, as it is for us and for people after us -if the world should carry on much longer (I have my doubts)
If by that you mean they did not have understanding, their understanding was not needed. God gave the ancients many laws and didn't explain most of them. For example God gave them hygiene laws related to the spread of disease, he did not explain germs to them. He expected faith and obedience to His Word.

 

[coffee4u]

My opinion if we step back in time way back. Stand in their shoes we would have rudimentary knowledge of the length of time even before the sundial the first measurement that man used for time. Back then evening and morning was the most elusive difficult part of the day to figure out they couldn't. When there's light but no sunrise to cast a shadow to gauge time. To them that was unknown, today we know it's around 18 minutes each evening and morning. That fact today means nothing to people we got cell phones.

You give them too little credit. Mankind was smart from first breath. They may not have known about germs but they understood the week, they kept the Sabbath religiously. If you can't tell what dawn and dusk is without a phone I don't know what to say to that, go outside and watch a sunrise and sunset?

 

[RDKirk]

My opinion if we step back in time way back. Stand in their shoes we would have rudimentary knowledge of the length of time even before the sundial the first measurement that man used for time. Back then evening and morning was the most elusive difficult part of the day to figure out they couldn't. When there's light but no sunrise to cast a shadow to gauge time. To them that was unknown, today we know it's around 18 minutes each evening and morning. That fact today means nothing to people we got cell phones.

They had the stars to tick off the hours at night.

That became perfectly clear to me when I had a part-time job as a night security guard and had to make hourly rounds outside. I got to know the passing of the night constellations very well, and came to fully understand "my soul waits for the Lord more than watchmen for the morning, more than watchmen for the morning" -- Psalm 130

 

[RDKirk]

You give them too little credit. Mankind was smart from first breath. They may not have known about germs but they understood the week, they kept the Sabbath religiously. If you can't tell what dawn and dusk is without a phone I don't know what to say to that, go outside and watch a sunrise and sunset?

My first day in the Far East in Thailand, the native meaning of a line from Revelation was made clear to me.

My military sponsor had picked me up at the flightline--it was nearly noon--and took me into a local restaurant just off base for lunch. There was nobody around, the place was empty. We sat at a table and waited for a server to show up. I was getting antsy because I thought we needed to be somewhere, so I suggested we just help ourselves to a buffet table of sliced meats and sandwich fixings that had been set out.

My sponsor said, "Ooooohhhh, noooo! We're not going to eat any of that."

Then he leaned close to me and told me, "Look, when you're in a country like this, you've got to be careful what you eat. If they take it right off the fire, you can eat it. If they take it right off the ice, you can eat it. But if it's room temperature, spit it out...it'll kill you!"

I immediately understood the base meaning of Revelation 3:16.

People in Jesus' time might not have known about germs, but they'd learned that food kept hot or kept cold was safe...food that was lukewarm would spoil and kill you.

 

[ozso]

I think the earth was created at an excelerated rate. So that while a day was 24 hrs, rather then 1000 years, several million years of development took place within 24 hrs at a highly excelerated rate. Like a time lapse.

It didn't take 20 years for Adam to become a 20 year old man. He became a fully developed adult in a very short span of time. Excellerated development.

Is the Earth 6 thousand years old? Yes.
Is the Earth 4.5 billion years old? Yes.

Just like, was Adam 20 years old? Yes
Was Adam 1 hour old? Yes.

 

[RDKirk]

I think the earth was created at an excelerated rate. So that while a day was 24 hrs, rather then 1000 years, several million years of development took place within 24 hrs at a highly excelerated rate. Like a time lapse.

Or a vision of creation was shown to the writer of Genesis like a time lapse.

 

[Halbhh]

is not possible since scripture does not teach that.

Indeed! Scripture isn't about trivialities like whether the Earth was x (a certain exact amount) years old at a certain point in events...

Instead of being about the truly unimportant question of how old the Earth is when event Y happened, the Bible is about Life or Death (it's an emergency: life or death, bring the electric paddles and save the dying person, now! -- for all of us for eternity!

That's why the Word is given -- to rescue us from our lost sinfulness and bring us reconciled to God. (so of course the bible isn't about chemistry or geology!...)

So, in Genesis chapter 1, if we can read with a truly open listening, it changes your brain in a wonderful way (I'm just testifying about what has happened to me factually, and repeatedly) -- it alters a person.

So that they enter a new state of mind.

And become better ready to hear the wonderfully deep and profound lessons in Genesis chapters 2-4 and beyond....

So, as you read Genesis 1 with true listening, you hear a profoundly powerful message -- that God has made Earth a "good", and a "very good" home for us -- this is repeated 7 times....

And if you can just hear that, it changes your heart.

Makes you better ready to listen to the Word....

Which is 50 times...no, one millions times more important than how old the Earth is (which is a comparative triviality, and that's why the bible never tell us that, just like it doesn't go into details about how chemistry works or how to build a bridge or whatever else random topics that are very useful, but all that other stuff (engineering, chemistry, how to make a bow, the age of Earth, how biology works, etc.) would not help bring us to God.

The Bible is meant to bring us out of our sinfulness, make us repent, and turn to God confessing our sins, to save our souls for eternity....

So, to help anyone that isn't already turned fully to Christ in faith for the remission of their sins, there is only one saving message, alone.

As Romans confirms to us, and Christ also:

3 Since they [Israel and all of humanity....] did not know the righteousness of God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. 4 Christ is the culmination of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

5 Moses writes this about the righteousness that is by the law: “The person who does these things will live by them.” 6 But the righteousness that is by faith says: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’” (that is, to bring Christ down) 7 “or ‘Who will descend into the deep?’” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

14 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in?

And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard?

And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?

15 And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”

16 But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?”

17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.

Bible Gateway passage: Romans 10 - New International Version

Brothers and sisters, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved. For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. Since they did not know the righteousness of God and sought to establish their own, they...

www.biblegateway.com

As Christ confirms in many ways in the gospels -- only He, alone, is the Way to God....

No other message saves, we literally read.

 

[BeyondET]

You give them too little credit. Mankind was smart from first breath. They may not have known about germs but they understood the week, they kept the Sabbath religiously. If you can't tell what dawn and dusk is without a phone I don't know what to say to that, go outside and watch a sunrise and sunset?

Man was smart from the first breath 'huh' but couldn't make his own clothes.

 

[BeyondET]

They had the stars to tick off the hours at night.

That became perfectly clear to me when I had a part-time job as a night security guard and had to make hourly rounds outside. I got to know the passing of the night constellations very well, and came to fully understand "my soul waits for the Lord more than watchmen for the morning, more than watchmen for the morning" -- Psalm 130

So you saw the 13 constellations throughout a whole year and what does that mean?. Yes star counting was watches in the night.

 

[RDKirk]

So you saw the 13 constellations throughout a whole year and what does that mean?. Yes star counting was watches in the night.

You know the stars traverse from horizon to horizon like the sun, right? I could tell the hour by the position of Orion, in particular.