How can you "condemn yourself" if once saved always saved?

[marke]

Rom 2:1 Therefore you are without excuse, O man, everyone who judges; for in that in which you judge another, you condemn yourself, for you who judge do the same things.

Is this another one of those cases where you need to read another book so you can see that "thou shall not kill" actually means "slaughter away" and the Bible doesn't really mean what it says"?

No, the Bible means what it says. It's the ministers of error who tell you differently so you keep coming to listen to them feed their ego rather than the poor.

It's sad, but all we can do is stand up for scripture and Jesus against those who want to pollute the Word to justify their actions.

God bless.

 

[holo]

I don't condemn myself. I can't. There is no condemnation for me.

 

[BereanTodd]

"There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus."

You miss the entire context of Romans 1-3. Romans 1-8 is dealing with salvation of man, and the first 3 chapters are all dealing with natural man, worldly man, man apart from God. To take those verses and apply them to someone who has been saved is quite eroneous, but not unsurprising from someone who denies the eternal security found in our Savior. If we can't earn our salvation, then how is it that we can lose it? What sins did Jesus pay for upon the cross? Only those we make before we are saved, or did He pay for it all?

 

[lilymarie]

I believe Romans 2 is talking about not being a hypocrite.

In other words if you are still a liar, are you judging others who lie since you are still doing that yourself?

That's the point of the scripture you cited, I believe.

And it probably relates to Jesus saying we need to deal with our own log in our eye and get it out and under control before we can help anyone to deal with a speak of dust in their eye. Jesus said "deal with your own log, then help others to "see".

We can't just talk the talk, we have to walk the walk.

The above is a cliche, I know. But, it is the best I can think of this early in the morning.

 

[Always in His Presence]

No, the Bible means what it says. It's the ministers of error who tell you differently so you keep coming to listen to them feed their ego rather than the poor.

Do you post these things in the Baptist threads also?

 

[New_Wineskin]

Rom 2:1 Therefore you are without excuse, O man, everyone who judges; for in that in which you judge another, you condemn yourself, for you who judge do the same things.

Is this another one of those cases where you need to read another book so you can see that "thou shall not kill" actually means "slaughter away" and the Bible doesn't really mean what it says"?

No, the Bible means what it says. It's the ministers of error who tell you differently so you keep coming to listen to them feed their ego rather than the poor.

It's sad, but all we can do is stand up for scripture and Jesus against those who want to pollute the Word to justify their actions.

God bless.

If you need to read in a book , "Do not kill" in order to restrain yourself from killing , you only show yourself to be a murderer . Your not killing someone isn't based on love of the Lord nor of love for the person you wish to kill - only a love of ritualistic Law .

 

[cavell]

if once saved always saved?

That is the chestnut........Folks are only saved, as long as they stay saved.

If they stay saved, the matter of judgement is dealt with in a personal manner before the throne of grace.

 

[JContinuum]

I am a Christian but at some point if I decide to turn my back on God, then I am still saved? Is this what once saved always saved means?

What if scernerio..............Just a story! It is made up but act as if were true.

So lets say I had it with church and God after 25 years of service to him. I go back to being a alcholic, drug addict, get back into to Hell's Angels and become a hit man again. Just pick up right where where I left off. 25 years ago I murdered about 30 people, raped over 500 women and butchered and made many people lame.

If I started right where I left off, murdered another 30 people, raped another 500 women, etc etc....and none of these victims were saved.

Are you telling me that the once saved always saved doctrine preaches that I'll still make heaven? Yet the victims that were never saved will go to hell.

???

 

[BereanTodd]

Are you telling me that the once saved always saved doctrine preaches that I'll still make heaven? Yet the victims that were never saved will go to hell.

???

Preservation of the Saints does teach that one can never lose one's salvation, but a person who has been saved would never do those things that you say, it's a complete nonsensical argument. It's like asking if God could make a stone so big that He can not lift it. It's pointless.

Someone who has truly been saved is a new man. Yes we still sin and stumble, struggle and fall. But we are still the new man. Who are you trusting for your salvation? Yourself and your ability to stay holy? Or Christ and what He paid on your behalf?

 

[nochurch]

Hello Marke,

I have questions for you: While Jesus was nailed to the cross, He said Father, forgive them, for they no not what they do. Were Jesus' words spoken in vain?

Did not God forgive those sinning murderers for crucifying Jesus without them repenting?

This is not a question of "once saved always saved" but rather it pertains to what God is doing in this world that so few realize.

 

[knownbeforetime]

Read my signature: OSAS helps me sleep at night.

It's not about me, It's all about Him.

He is the one doing the good work in me, not myself. He is the one that started it and He is faithful to complete it.

I believe it when the Bible says that "What God opens, no one can shut. What God shuts, no one can open." He has sealed me with the Holy Spirit, effectively shutting me off for Himself, just try to open me up again...

 

[Razorback4Christ]

I am a Christian but at some point if I decide to turn my back on God, then I am still saved? Is this what once saved always saved means?

What if scernerio..............Just a story! It is made up but act as if were true.

So lets say I had it with church and God after 25 years of service to him. I go back to being a alcholic, drug addict, get back into to Hell's Angels and become a hit man again. Just pick up right where where I left off. 25 years ago I murdered about 30 people, raped over 500 women and butchered and made many people lame.

If I started right where I left off, murdered another 30 people, raped another 500 women, etc etc....and none of these victims were saved.

Are you telling me that the once saved always saved doctrine preaches that I'll still make heaven? Yet the victims that were never saved will go to hell.

???

I believe if you revert to sin repeatedly without regret or guilt then you were never born again, never regenerated, never baptized with the new spirit, and therefore never saved.

Of course God will be the ultimate judge of that.

 

[Christianson19]

I am a Christian but at some point if I decide to turn my back on God, then I am still saved? Is this what once saved always saved means?

What if scernerio..............Just a story! It is made up but act as if were true.

So lets say I had it with church and God after 25 years of service to him. I go back to being a alcholic, drug addict, get back into to Hell's Angels and become a hit man again. Just pick up right where where I left off. 25 years ago I murdered about 30 people, raped over 500 women and butchered and made many people lame.

If I started right where I left off, murdered another 30 people, raped another 500 women, etc etc....and none of these victims were saved.

Are you telling me that the once saved always saved doctrine preaches that I'll still make heaven? Yet the victims that were never saved will go to hell.

???

If someone has been saved in one point in their life I hardly doubt that they would go and murder people. If they did I dont think they were saved in the first place. I think the once saved always saved doctrine applies to people who have been saved, slipped away for a bit of time by not reading the bible or going to church for some reason and come back.

 

[Starcrystal]

I believe if you revert to sin repeatedly without regret or guilt then you were never born again, never regenerated, never baptized with the new spirit, and therefore never saved.

Of course God will be the ultimate judge of that.

It's called falling into sin, backsliding - it doesn't mean a person didn't get saved and have a real born again experience. MY PASTOR DID SUCH FOR 8 YEARS STRAIT! I've had a couple 1 - 2 year backslidden/stagnant periods.
You cannot really make such a judgment as long as a person lives. They can get saved and revert to sin for many years but at some point return to God.

Check out my post # 46 on this page. http://www.christianforums.com/t4310483-thoughts-on-ii-peter-315-16.html&page=5

 

[Razorback4Christ]

It's called falling into sin, backsliding - it doesn't mean a person didn't get saved and have a real born again experience. MY PASTOR DID SUCH FOR 8 YEARS STRAIT! I've had a couple 1 - 2 year backslidden/stagnant periods.
You cannot really make such a judgment as long as a person lives. They can get saved and revert to sin for many years but at some point return to God.

Check out my post # 46 on this page. http://www.christianforums.com/t4310483-thoughts-on-ii-peter-315-16.html&page=5

We'll have to agree to disagree. I never fell back into sin because I am still in it. The difference is I don't want to be in it. I am convicted of and repent of it. This person was speaking of mass murdering (I assume there is no repenting or guilt in that profession).

That's what defines regeneration. If a believer continues in sin without any remorse, guilt or conviction, then that person was never truly saved

 

[Razorback4Christ]

It's called falling into sin, backsliding - it doesn't mean a person didn't get saved and have a real born again experience. MY PASTOR DID SUCH FOR 8 YEARS STRAIT! I've had a couple 1 - 2 year backslidden/stagnant periods.
You cannot really make such a judgment as long as a person lives. They can get saved and revert to sin for many years but at some point return to God.

Check out my post # 46 on this page. http://www.christianforums.com/t4310483-thoughts-on-ii-peter-315-16.html&page=5

We'll have to agree to disagree. I never fell back into sin because I am still in it. The difference is I don't want to be in it. I am convicted of and repent of it. This person was speaking of mass murdering (I assume there is no repenting or guilt in that profession).

That's what defines regeneration. If a believer continues in sin without any remorse, guilt or conviction, then that person was never truly saved for God

 

[Razorback4Christ]

It's called falling into sin, backsliding - it doesn't mean a person didn't get saved and have a real born again experience. MY PASTOR DID SUCH FOR 8 YEARS STRAIT! I've had a couple 1 - 2 year backslidden/stagnant periods.
You cannot really make such a judgment as long as a person lives. They can get saved and revert to sin for many years but at some point return to God.

Check out my post # 46 on this page. http://www.christianforums.com/t4310483-thoughts-on-ii-peter-315-16.html&page=5

We'll have to agree to disagree. I never fell back into sin because I am still in it. The difference is I don't want to be in it. I am convicted of and repent of it. This person was speaking of mass murdering (I assume there is no repenting or guilt in that profession).

That's what defines regeneration. If a believer continues in sin without any remorse, guilt or conviction, then that person was never truly saved for God will not abandon the work which he has started (Phil 1:6).

 

[kogseeker]

Part of the problem may be that we have misunderstood what salvation really is. Modern evangelicalism often interprets salvation in a very narrow sense which equates to "getting out of the going-to-hell line and getting into the going-to-heaven line."

But a good word-study on "salvation" demonstrates that the concept of salvation is much fuller and deeper than just being about the "afterlife." Salvation is wholeness, healing, restoration, deliverance, becoming who we are meant to be by enjoying a relationship with God. After all, Jesus himself said that eternal life was primarily knowing God, NOT going to a certain place.

If we define salvation as ONLY about the afterlife, then I think we will always struggle with doubts about whether we've done enough or believed enough right doctrine to get to heaven. Jesus didn't pray everyone would go to heaven. Instead, he prayed that heaven would come to earth -- thy will be done ON EARTH as it is in heaven.

In this context, salvation is the restoration of all of creation, undoing what the fall did. Do we believe that God will do this? Do we believe and work for his kingdom to come? Are we concerned about the things that Jesus was concerned with: the poor, the sick, the oppressed, the marginalized? Does God care about saving the whole world that he loves? Or does he only care about a very few getting their posteriors into heaven?

Modern evangelism has turned salvation into a commodity, something that WE need, not for the good of the world or for the kingdom of God, but just so that we can have a "ticket to heaven." When that view is taken, we forever wonder if we really have the right ticket or what will happen if we lose the ticket. Maybe salvation is more than about my destiny. Maybe it is about God's plan to restore all creation and his invitation to me to participate in that plan by first loving him and then loving others.

 

[Razorback4Christ]

Part of the problem may be that we have misunderstood what salvation really is. Modern evangelicalism often interprets salvation in a very narrow sense which equates to "getting out of the going-to-hell line and getting into the going-to-heaven line."

But a good word-study on "salvation" demonstrates that the concept of salvation is much fuller and deeper than just being about the "afterlife." Salvation is wholeness, healing, restoration, deliverance, becoming who we are meant to be by enjoying a relationship with God. After all, Jesus himself said that eternal life was primarily knowing God, NOT going to a certain place.

If we define salvation as ONLY about the afterlife, then I think we will always struggle with doubts about whether we've done enough or believed enough right doctrine to get to heaven. Jesus didn't pray everyone would go to heaven. Instead, he prayed that heaven would come to earth -- thy will be done ON EARTH as it is in heaven.

In this context, salvation is the restoration of all of creation, undoing what the fall did. Do we believe that God will do this? Do we believe and work for his kingdom to come? Are we concerned about the things that Jesus was concerned with: the poor, the sick, the oppressed, the marginalized? Does God care about saving the whole world that he loves? Or does he only care about a very few getting their posteriors into heaven?

Modern evangelism has turned salvation into a commodity, something that WE need, not for the good of the world or for the kingdom of God, but just so that we can have a "ticket to heaven." When that view is taken, we forever wonder if we really have the right ticket or what will happen if we lose the ticket. Maybe salvation is more than about my destiny. Maybe it is about God's plan to restore all creation and his invitation to me to participate in that plan by first loving him and then loving others.

Amen brother...I love that word regeneration.

Dt 30:6 And the LORD your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your offspring, so that you will love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul, that you may live.

 

[holo]

That's what defines regeneration. If a believer continues in sin without any remorse, guilt or conviction, then that person was never truly saved

I don't think the difference is merely that the christian feels remorse while the sinner doesn't. I often hear christian say stuff like that, "at least I'm trying, I'm not perfect and I'm still struggling but I'm praying and trying..."

And trying and trying and trying and trying. Have you ever met a christian who actually had victory over sin after trying long and hard enough? I've never met one. Not once. But I have met a few who have understood that victory is something Jesus gives.

What's the point of regretting and trying and repenting and feeling remorse if you just keep on doing whatever bad thing it is that you do? Or if you come up with some new sin to slave under? Really, what's the point? It sounds more like self-justification to me - people realize deep down that they can't stop anyway, so they hide behind their prayers and intentions and struggles.

There's no freedom in that.