How can you "condemn yourself" if once saved always saved?

[blackpower]

doggy

 

[marke]

I believe Romans 2 is talking about not being a hypocrite.

In other words if you are still a liar, are you judging others who lie since you are still doing that yourself?

That's the point of the scripture you cited, I believe.

And it probably relates to Jesus saying we need to deal with our own log in our eye and get it out and under control before we can help anyone to deal with a speak of dust in their eye. Jesus said "deal with your own log, then help others to "see".

We can't just talk the talk, we have to walk the walk.

The above is a cliche, I know. But, it is the best I can think of this early in the morning.

It's not a cliche, but actual scripture. In fact, it's how you know the saved from the lost. The walk.

God Bless

 

[marke]

I am a Christian but at some point if I decide to turn my back on God, then I am still saved? Is this what once saved always saved means?

What if scernerio..............Just a story! It is made up but act as if were true.

So lets say I had it with church and God after 25 years of service to him. I go back to being a alcholic, drug addict, get back into to Hell's Angels and become a hit man again. Just pick up right where where I left off. 25 years ago I murdered about 30 people, raped over 500 women and butchered and made many people lame.

If I started right where I left off, murdered another 30 people, raped another 500 women, etc etc....and none of these victims were saved.

Are you telling me that the once saved always saved doctrine preaches that I'll still make heaven? Yet the victims that were never saved will go to hell.

???

My understanding from those who believe this OSAS assertion is YES, in your made up story, according to those who forward this assertion, you'll still get in heaven.

But again, since I can't find any scripture about this once saved always saved and quite a lot the supports conditional salvation, I'm unsure what these people are talking about.

It is my hope those who put forth this OSAS assertion will provide us with scripture to help us find the truth in this assertion, or we'll be able to say, no, this is a fable in Pop Christianity and start to conform ourselves to whatever we discover.

Personally, I'd like to believe this assertion because I am far from perfect, but as I said earlier, I can't find any scripture to justify this belief.

God bless

 

[marke]

Preservation of the Saints does teach that one can never lose one's salvation, but a person who has been saved would never do those things that you say, it's a complete nonsensical argument. It's like asking if God could make a stone so big that He can not lift it. It's pointless.

Someone who has truly been saved is a new man. Yes we still sin and stumble, struggle and fall. But we are still the new man. Who are you trusting for your salvation? Yourself and your ability to stay holy? Or Christ and what He paid on your behalf?

You write: "Preservation of the Saints does teach that one can never lose one's salvation".

That's the scripture we are looking for. Could you please clue us in on where you found it?

You write: :but a person who has been saved would never do those things that you say"

So true the way I read it too. A saved person wouldn't do those things. But anyone can call themselves a Christian. You know the saved from the lost by their actions and they things they support.

You write: "Who are you trusting for your salvation? Yourself and your ability to stay holy? Or Christ and what He paid on your behalf?"

That's where the "free choice" comes in. Jesus says "Many are called, but few are chosen." Again, not a blanket statement. I chose to seek the truth and then conform myself to the truth I discover in the hope I will be among the chosen.

The way I read it is the price Jesus paid is for those who chose to follow His example, not for those who spit in his face.

God Bless. II Cor 9:15

 

[marke]

"There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus."

You miss the entire context of Romans 1-3. Romans 1-8 is dealing with salvation of man, and the first 3 chapters are all dealing with natural man, worldly man, man apart from God. To take those verses and apply them to someone who has been saved is quite eroneous, but not unsurprising from someone who denies the eternal security found in our Savior. If we can't earn our salvation, then how is it that we can lose it? What sins did Jesus pay for upon the cross? Only those we make before we are saved, or did He pay for it all?

You write: "What sins did Jesus pay for upon the cross? Only those we make before we are saved, or did He pay for it all?"

I think the answer can be found in Rom 3, but I don't have access to a Bible as I am away from home.

I don't want to misquote, but perhaps someone will be able to find what I am speaking of.

God Bless

 

[knownbeforetime]

Jesus said he would never lose any of those given to Him... I take that literally.

 

[kogseeker]

Jesus said he would never lose any of those given to Him... I take that literally.

Which brings us to a couple more interesting verses:

For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. - John 17:2

For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be the glory forever! Amen. - Romans 11:36

One God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. - Ephesians 4:6

I'm not sure how literally we should take these verses!

 

[Razorback4Christ]

I don't think the difference is merely that the christian feels remorse while the sinner doesn't. I often hear christian say stuff like that, "at least I'm trying, I'm not perfect and I'm still struggling but I'm praying and trying..."

And trying and trying and trying and trying. Have you ever met a christian who actually had victory over sin after trying long and hard enough? I've never met one. Not once. But I have met a few who have understood that victory is something Jesus gives.

What's the point of regretting and trying and repenting and feeling remorse if you just keep on doing whatever bad thing it is that you do? Or if you come up with some new sin to slave under? Really, what's the point? It sounds more like self-justification to me - people realize deep down that they can't stop anyway, so they hide behind their prayers and intentions and struggles.

There's no freedom in that.

It's unbiblical to have freedom. We are either a slave to sin or a slave to righteousness. Rom 6:18.

It's not about trying, especially on our own, we will always fail. But the Spirit convicts the Christian sinner. The point of regretting and repenting, is that we want to keep from sinning in obedience to Christ.

Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! Ro 6:1-2

 

[Razorback4Christ]

My understanding from those who believe this OSAS assertion is YES, in your made up story, according to those who forward this assertion, you'll still get in heaven.

But again, since I can't find any scripture about this once saved always saved and quite a lot the supports conditional salvation, I'm unsure what these people are talking about.

It is my hope those who put forth this OSAS assertion will provide us with scripture to help us find the truth in this assertion, or we'll be able to say, no, this is a fable in Pop Christianity and start to conform ourselves to whatever we discover.

Personally, I'd like to believe this assertion because I am far from perfect, but as I said earlier, I can't find any scripture to justify this belief.

God bless

There are several out there, here is a start.

Philippians 1:6 And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

2 Ti 4:18 The Lord will rescue me from every evil deed and bring me safely into his heavenly kingdom. To him be the glory forever and ever. Amen.

Also see Hebrews Chapter 6.

 

[seekthetruth909]

If you need to read in a book , "Do not kill" in order to restrain yourself from killing , you only show yourself to be a murderer . Your not killing someone isn't based on love of the Lord nor of love for the person you wish to kill - only a love of ritualistic Law .

Interesting concept. I think I disagree. Some people know in their heart it is wrong to kill someone, since it is written on their heart. Others who may be weaker in the Spirit need to read the command of Jesus to love their enemies and as they become stronger in the Spirit, they eventually keep the command out of love. It then becomes written on their heart and they no longer need to read it in a book.
What do you think?

God Bless

 

[holo]

It's unbiblical to have freedom. We are either a slave to sin or a slave to righteousness. Rom 6:18.

It is for freedom that Christ set us free.

 

[HisSparrow]

I have a very close Christian friend to me who always says that "I'm trying....I'm not perfect..." and continues to live in the same struggles...year after year after year. I just leave it up to God to know if this person is really saved or not. Sometimes I get frustrated with this individual, but then I realize that only God can actually make the final judgement call on this person and on me as well.

 

[Razorback4Christ]

It is for freedom that Christ set us free.

The freedom from sin to be a slave to righteousness.

 

[holo]

The freedom from sin to be a slave to righteousness.

Yes, but it's hardly slavery

Sin is slavery.

 

[marke]

Interesting concept. I think I disagree. Some people know in their heart it is wrong to kill someone, since it is written on their heart. Others who may be weaker in the Spirit need to read the command of Jesus to love their enemies and as they become stronger in the Spirit, they eventually keep the command out of love. It then becomes written on their heart and they no longer need to read it in a book.
What do you think?

God Bless

I think it is right on as usual.

God bless

 

[DArceri]

I have a very close Christian friend to me who always says that "I'm trying....I'm not perfect..." and continues to live in the same struggles...year after year after year. I just leave it up to God to know if this person is really saved or not. Sometimes I get frustrated with this individual, but then I realize that only God can actually make the final judgement call on this person and on me as well.

The issue is not whether we sin or not, the issue is our attitude towards sin (a change of heart attitude is needed). This comes about by placing Jesus as Lord and not self.

 

[malckiah]

hello friend, well, first of all you are taking that scripture out of context, but i will answer your question based on the idea that you (a believer) could be condemned.....
ok, Well, first of all it is true once saved always saved....NOTHING can snatch you from The Lord's hand! However, there is still one way you can be not saved....you see, you still have free will and although it would be stupid, you could with your free will choose to deny His salvation. Hence, you would be condemning yourself! May The Lord bless you with understanding in this matter! amen.

 

[DArceri]

I believe it is willful rejection of Christ's Lordship that proves one's confession of faith not valid. There are too many "carnal" christians who put self first and Jesus last. They are never convicted of anything sinful, but use Jesus free gift as a crutch. Beleive is an "action" word. You need to act on your faith and "bear fruit".

 

[malckiah]

Amen to that!