How can you avoid becoming zealous or fundamental in your views?

[OliverC]

Hello
How does one avoid becoming over zealous and moving towards a more fundamental mind set once someone takes the step to be a Christian?

I ask as I want to keep my relationship with God as positive, joyful and liberal and have doubts that Christianity will be right for me for various reasons.

For example;
Has it been so for you or others that the more you study and learn the more tight and 'retricted' your beliefs and behaviour have had to become in line with the teaching you follow?

Have you had to take a step back to perserve what feels right to you in your heat despite what other Christians may see as being scriptual law and requiring obedience?

Is it possible to develop and remain light and joyful with your relationship with God yet be committed?

On a theological level I suppose I am asking where the line between adhering to dogma and choice may lie and how to keep onself in pespective in the modern business world.

* I know words like zealous, conservative and fundamentalism mean different things to different people, but I hope to communicate a sense where a person finds they are obliged to take a fundamental mind set against their gut feeling due to an interperation of the Bible as law.

 

[Willie T]

It sounds almost too easy to be real, but just put the same thing, FIRST, that Jesus did.... LOVE for people, not love for rules and religion.

 

[OliverC]

Thanks Willie. That is an encouraging answer.

 

[Willie T]

We can become very distracted and misled by letting ourselves think "worship" is somehow an end, unto itself.

You might find it interesting to learn that one of the world's most respected theologians, Karl Barth, once made the statement that, "Religion is unbelief."

 

[razzelflabben]

Hello
How does one avoid becoming over zealous and moving towards a more fundamental mind set once someone takes the step to be a Christian?

I ask as I want to keep my relationship with God as positive, joyful and liberal and have doubts that Christianity will be right for me for various reasons.

For example;
Has it been so for you or others that the more you study and learn the more tight and 'retricted' your beliefs and behaviour have had to become in line with the teaching you follow?

Have you had to take a step back to perserve what feels right to you in your heat despite what other Christians may see as being scriptual law and requiring obedience?

Is it possible to develop and remain light and joyful with your relationship with God yet be committed?

On a theological level I suppose I am asking where the line between adhering to dogma and choice may lie and how to keep onself in pespective in the modern business world.

* I know words like zealous, conservative and fundamentalism mean different things to different people, but I hope to communicate a sense where a person finds they are obliged to take a fundamental mind set against their gut feeling due to an interperation of the Bible as law.

I'm almost afraid to get involved in this one....do you ask the same question of loving a spouse, your children, or a dear and close friend? You look into the eyes of the one you love, the one you plan on spending the rest of your life with, and in that gaze, say, "honey, I love you but, I don't want to love you too zealously that I have to choose you over the business world"?

Belief unto salvation is a relationship with God. It is a love affair so to speak. In fact, we are told in scripture that Christ is the bridegroom and we, the Church are the bride. Now, from a pure religious standpoint, I would say sure, you can have a one night stand so to speak, that friends with benefits, but eventually that will stop satisfying the lustful desires that brought you to that point to start out with. Scripture however tells us that Christ isnt' about religion, it isn't about appeasing, or ritual or even traditions, but rather it is about relationship, restoration, it's about fellowship with God, and that is not a "when it suits me" kind of thing.

 

[LarryP2]

Keep your eye on the ball. Christianity does not worship a book. The Book reveals Jesus Christ. Reading about him is 1 percent or so of the Christian experience. The other 99 percent requires action. Most of that action is worshiping Jesus Christ, he is God.

It really is that simple.

 

[Willie T]

You're going to be surprised at how many times you will hear Christians use the expression that "it is simple". Simply because it really is.

HINT: If it starts to become complicated, there's a strong chance you might be trying to take Christianity away from Christ, and make it your own private religion.

 

[paul1149]

You look into the eyes of the one you love, the one you plan on spending the rest of your life with, and in that gaze, say, "honey, I love you but, I don't want to love you too zealously

I think the issue here is fear of letting go. And the root of that is unbelief.

Somehow we humans think that we can do a better job with our lives and our spiritual wellbeing than can God. This is probably why the sinners and downcast were so attracted to Jesus, while the religious caste wanted to kill Him. Those who have seen their own frailty know that they don't have what it takes, and they are more open to God saving them from this harsh life and their own shortcomings.

The truth is that we can and do make errors in following God. I certainly have. Errors are not intrinsically good, of course, but if you love God He will use even them for you good, according to the promise of Romans 8.28. I would rather be on God's training field making errors as I progress in Him, than be light and airy without Him. I have been in the latter state, and I know where it ends. There is nothing good outside of God.

And the more I am in God, the more gracious I have become. It's ironic, but the more I am His, the freer I am. That's the antithesis of legalism. But how could it be otherwise, when you worship the Author of life and lovingkindness?

As Paul writes, the letter kills, but the spirit gives life. Don't allow anything to keep you from pursuing the Lord.

 

[OliverC]

I think the issue here is fear of letting go. And the root of that is unbelief.

Somehow we humans think that we can do a better job with our lives and our spiritual wellbeing than can God. This is probably why the sinners and downcast were so attracted to Jesus, while the religious caste wanted to kill Him. Those who have seen their own frailty know that they don't have what it takes, and they are more open to God saving them from this harsh life and their own shortcomings.

The truth is that we can and do make errors in following God....

Hi Paul
You are right, I am afraid of Christianity and of letting go (for many reasons it seems).

If I understand your post correctly, I believe you are advocating surrender to God? I have tried to surrender my life to God by seeing everything as determined, what happened was that I became passive and that affected my productivity. Later I felt that I had betrayed myself by taking such an approach and have been looking to take more onwnership of my thoughts, words and actions, but not excluding God and His Will. So I am afraid to make a commitment to Christianity and I am here to try to work through my assumptions and doubts which I think are causing me to be afraid of commitment. If you wish to briefly reflect on your perspective of how you balance your choices as an individual over and with God's will I would be interested to read it.

 

[razzelflabben]

Hi Paul
You are right, I am afraid of Christianity and of letting go (for many reasons it seems).

If I understand your post correctly, I believe you are advocating surrender to God? I have tried to surrender my life to God by seeing everything as determined, what happened was that I became passive and that affected my productivity. Later I felt that I had betrayed myself by taking such an approach and have been looking to take more onwnership of my thoughts, words and actions, but not excluding God and His Will. So I am afraid to make a commitment to Christianity and I am here to try to work through my assumptions and doubts which I think are causing me to be afraid of commitment. If you wish to briefly reflect on your perspective of how you balance your choices as an individual over and with God's will I would be interested to read it.

mind if I ask a couple of questions? This post sounds like you want to improve your thoughts and speech and work ethic, but you are claiming that God or your relationship with God is holding you back...so, first, is that what you are saying? second, if so how is God, or more accurate, your relationship with God holding you back from making this change? I think I'm lost somewhere along the way....

 

[OliverC]

Keep your eye on the ball. Christianity does not worship a book. The Book reveals Jesus Christ. Reading about him is 1 percent or so of the Christian experience. The other 99 percent requires action. Most of that action is worshiping Jesus Christ, he is God.

It really is that simple.

Hi Larry
Please can you expand on what the 99 percent action is? Do you mean finding a church or praying at home. I suppose I am asking how I can "simply live it" and be true, and move away from the need to "read it" to know what's true?

You're going to be surprised at how many times you will hear Christians use the expression that "it is simple". Simply because it really is.

HINT: If it starts to become complicated, there's a strong chance you might be trying to take Christianity away from Christ, and make it your own private religion.

You are right, Willie. I think the temptation is that once someone feel they are on the right track they want to embrace it and take as much in as possible, making it their religion and their God. This is why we see zealousness in people new to a religion leading to fundamental behaviour I think. Is the remedy then to keep ourselves in check, step back and take a breath each time we feel needy of reassurance that we are on the right track or that we need to feel closer to God?

 

[Willie T]

"Balance"? "Commitment?"

A hen is balancing her involvement with breakfast........ The pig, on the other hand, is committed.

 

[Willie T]

Hi Larry
Please can you expand on what the 99 percent action is? Do you mean finding a church or praying at home. I suppose I am asking how I can "simply live it" and be true, and move away from the need to "read it" to know what's true?


You are right, Willie. I think the temptation is that once someone feel they are on the right track they want to embrace it and take as much in as possible, making it their religion and their God. This is why we see zealousness in people new to a religion leading to fundamental behaviour I think. Is the remedy then to keep ourselves in check, step back and take a breath each time we feel needy of reassurance that we are on the right track or that we need to feel closer to God?

Not so much keeping ourselves in check, I think, as keeping our focus the same as Jesus' was.

 

[OliverC]

mind if I ask a couple of questions? This post sounds like you want to improve your thoughts and speech and work ethic, but you are claiming that God or your relationship with God is holding you back...so, first, is that what you are saying? second, if so how is God, or more accurate, your relationship with God holding you back from making this change? I think I'm lost somewhere along the way....

Hi razzelflabben
Thanks for both posts, I am glad of your questions and input. I am still in reflecting on your first post.

Years ago I came to the conclusion that everything is determined, or rather everything is God's will. It led me to be passive in some cases, simply drifting along with other's choices rather than asserting my own, or waiting for problems to solve themselves (which some do). That is fine when we might be choosing what to have for dinner, but in some professional circumstances I felt my attitude was detrimental, I saw that and I needed to acknowledge a sense of freewill or autonomy even within God's will/universe. Christianity seems to offer that autonomy whilst acknowledging God's will as supreme.

Obviously this opens up a larger debate of free will versus determinism in Theology, but to keep to specifics of your questions, it means that I am asking the forum if they have observed that they can live contentedly as Christians and avoid fundamentals or extremer points of view e.g. hard determinism or that the Bible is Law and everything else should be shunned etc. (I am not saying that people who choose that are wrong, I am just saying that is not what I am seeking).

I have sort of answered your question, but let me know if it isn't clear. Thanks.

 

[OliverC]

"Balance"? "Commitment?"

A hen is balancing her involvement with breakfast........ The pig, on the other hand, is committed.

haha, well I suppose to be a Christian is to be like the pig... or perhaps lambs who will end up as roast! Sitting on the fence or just getting involved when it suits us doesn't seem to be a good way to practice Christianity from what I have read.

Not so much keeping ourselves in check, I think, as keeping our focus the same as Jesus' was.

And the focus comes from the words of Christ in the NT? Correct? (Sounds perhaps obvious, but want to check).

 

[razzelflabben]

Hi razzelflabben
Thanks for both posts, I am glad of your questions and input. I am still in reflecting on your first post.

Years ago I came to the conclusion that everything is determined, or rather everything is God's will. It led me to be passive in some cases, simply drifting along with other's choices rather than asserting my own, or waiting for problems to solve themselves (which some do). That is fine when we might be choosing what to have for dinner, but in some professional circumstances I felt my attitude was detrimental, I saw that and I needed to acknowledge a sense of freewill or autonomy even within God's will/universe. Christianity seems to offer that autonomy whilst acknowledging God's will as supreme.

Obviously this opens up a larger debate of free will versus determinism in Theology, but to keep to specifics of your questions, it means that I am asking the forum if they have observed that they can live contentedly as Christians and avoid fundamentals or extremer points of view e.g. hard determinism or that the Bible is Law and everything else should be shunned etc. (I am not saying that people who choose that are wrong, I am just saying that is not what I am seeking).

I have sort of answered your question, but let me know if it isn't clear. Thanks.

clear as mud ...naw, I think I am starting to figure out what you are saying, if I am still wrong, my apologies in advance.

First let me give you a very brief description of my POV as per how I understand your question. For me, I came to God at about 6 years of old because I knew that without a supernatural being, I would never survive. So, I grew up seeking God (didn't know at the time it was God I sought) and never once looked back. That means that my love affair with God is life long, no compromise. However, I have also learned that the church is not only full of hypocrites, but it is full of traditions and rituals that we place above God and what He tells us of Himself. This understanding put me on a quest to know all of God I could possibly know. The end result is that scripture tells us about a God that few in the church today would recognize as God. I'm not saying that to suggest I have all the answers, by far, I DON'T...rather I am suggesting that if you are zealous in seeking after the living God not the churches view of God, you will discover a freedom and comparability that you never knew were possible under the "law" of the church that claims to represent God.

Let me see, an example of what I am saying...oh...here is a good example...the church gives us all these rules, do this, don't do that can't you read the signs...(sorry for the lapse into song) anyway, we have all these rules, God tells us that all those laws are summed up in just two laws, 1. love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength and 2. love your neighbor as yourself. Now I am not saying that isn't a huge topic, been in deep study for over 7 years and still working on what biblical love is, but what I am saying is that if you measure everything you say and do by the measure of biblical love, you will be pleasing God. If that is zealous, then so be it, but as I understand your question, you are talking more about legalism then true zeal...again my apologies if I am still not understanding.

 

[Willie T]

haha, well I suppose to be a Christian is to be like the pig... or perhaps lambs who will end up as roast! Sitting on the fence or just getting involved when it suits us doesn't seem to be a good way to practice Christianity from what I have read.



And the focus comes from the words of Christ in the NT? Correct? (Sounds perhaps obvious, but want to check).

I think that is directly related to how (why) you read Jesus' words. Are they being read to learn the technique and skill of driving.... OR, to envision the final trip destination?

 

[bling]

Hello
How does one avoid becoming over zealous and moving towards a more fundamental mind set once someone takes the step to be a Christian?

I ask as I want to keep my relationship with God as positive, joyful and liberal and have doubts that Christianity will be right for me for various reasons.

For example;
Has it been so for you or others that the more you study and learn the more tight and 'retricted' your beliefs and behaviour have had to become in line with the teaching you follow?

Have you had to take a step back to perserve what feels right to you in your heat despite what other Christians may see as being scriptual law and requiring obedience?

Is it possible to develop and remain light and joyful with your relationship with God yet be committed?

On a theological level I suppose I am asking where the line between adhering to dogma and choice may lie and how to keep onself in pespective in the modern business world.

* I know words like zealous, conservative and fundamentalism mean different things to different people, but I hope to communicate a sense where a person finds they are obliged to take a fundamental mind set against their gut feeling due to an interperation of the Bible as law.

I like your questions and comments.

God is not trying to get humans to “do” something, but is trying to gift humans with the greatest gifts possible, but they still have to want these gifts the greatest gift being His Love.

If you are doing stuff because you feel you have to, then you are doing it for the wrong reason and it will profit you (and others) nothing. 1 Cor. 13: 1-4.

Individuals I have known that have come to Christ feeling a huge burden of sin, tend to be overwhelmed with joy, wanting to tell and help everyone else (out of pure gratitude for what God has done for them). Other have needed more time to come to the realization of God’s pure charity toward them.

Christians do not have to “do” stuff, but they do get to allow the Holy Spirit to work through them doing amazing things.

Godly type Love cannot be made instinctive since that would be a robotic type love and God cannot force this Love on a person (like a shotgun wedding with God holding the shotgun), so it has to be the result of a real free will choice with likely alternatives (the perceived pleasures of sin being man’s alternative).

 

[OliverC]

clear as mud ...naw......

God tells us that all those laws are summed up in just two laws, 1. love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength and 2. love your neighbor as yourself. Now I am not saying that isn't a huge topic, been in deep study for over 7 years and still working on what biblical love is, but what I am saying is that if you measure everything you say and do by the measure of biblical love, you will be pleasing God. If that is zealous, then so be it, but as I understand your question, you are talking more about legalism then true zeal...again my apologies if I am still not understanding.

hahaha! Well I think you have understood or at least answered my question. It seems that I have a view that Christianity is much more complicated and interwoven. You and others have explained it as being much more simple and practical.

Contrary to your story, I have rebelled from Christianity since I was probably about 11 years old. My school made it into a boring ritual and something I decided to be avoided, mocked and disliked. For years I have considered Christianity, or Church ritual, as a way to control weak minds or an institutional system to blindly fit into rather than a blessing. It is hard for me to back track 30+ years and say I was wrong to see Christianity so negatively, but from the answers here I am starting to think maybe I was....

It is easy to get caught up in the debates about "contradictions in the bible" or "Did Jesus really exist", and I want to avoid that and keep my focus on God. I know God is Good and True, but what I miss is a relationship with Him that I feel comfortable in. One I can share safely with others who feel the same. I want to be proactive and humbly try to strive to make the world a good place with God's help.

To become a Christian implies a change to how I view myself and the world, which is why it matters and what I am trying to understand. It is why some people struggle so much with what may be simple in a Christian's eyes

 

[Willie T]

hahaha! Well I think you have understood or at least answered my question. It seems that I have a view that Christianity is much more complicated and interwoven. You and others have explained it as being much more simple and practical.

Contrary to your story, I have rebelled from Christianity since I was probably about 11 years old. My school made it into a boring ritual and something I decided to be avoided, mocked and disliked. For years I have considered Christianity, or Church ritual, as a way to control weak minds or an institutional system to blindly fit into rather than a blessing. It is hard for me to back track 30+ years and say I was wrong to see Christianity so negatively, but from the answers here I am starting to think maybe I was....

It is easy to get caught up in the debates about "contradictions in the bible" or "Did Jesus really exist", and I want to avoid that and keep my focus on God. I know God is Good and True, but what I miss is a relationship with Him that I feel comfortable in. One I can share safely with others who feel the same. I want to be proactive and humbly try to strive to make the world a good place with God's help.

To become a Christian implies a change to how I view myself and the world, which is why it matters and what I am trying to understand. It is why some people struggle so much with what may be simple in a Christian's eyes

Don't feel bad. I became a Christian 35 years ago....... but it has only been within the past two years that I finally began to understand what being a CHRISTian was all about.