How can this be so?

[pletho]

Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent

People keep telling me that Jesus Christ is God, but I'm finding it very hard to agree with them because it contradict hundreds if not thousands of clear verses of scripture about the subject.

Hebrews 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God

It makes no sense if Jesus Christ is God it would have to read like this

But this man (Jesus Christ who is God also), after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of Himself?

He offered sacrifice to himself?

The right hand man biblically is the second in authority even today it's the same,

Sat down next to Himself?

It sounds like who ever teaches this Doctrine is besides them self, from what I can see?

I Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the MAN Christ Jesus

Do you see my point Jesus Christ was a man, God isn't a Man! Jesus Christ still is a man, A perfect spiritual man. It also says that no man has seen God at any time. People saw Jesus Christ all the time?
Also a mediator is a Go between, between two individuals, The two are God and men, if Christ is the Mediator and God both why would He need a mediator to Go between, it makes no logical sense from what I see.

Any one posting an answer to this please use scripture because I will not believe it if it doesn't line up with the Word. Also My question is based just upon this one clear scripture (God is not a man that he should lie, Did God lie in this verse?) which needs to be explained first, because if something taught crosses the many clear verses on a given subject, or the many clear verses on a subject are ignored in order to prove a point, that's a mishandling of the word which is not best. Bless Steve

 

[Sojourner<><]

Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent

People keep telling me that Jesus Christ is God, but I'm finding it very hard to agree with them because it contradict hundreds if not thousands of clear verses of scripture about the subject.

Hebrews 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God

It makes no sense if Jesus Christ is God it would have to read like this

But this man (Jesus Christ who is God also), after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of Himself?

He offered sacrifice to himself?

The right hand man biblically is the second in authority even today it's the same,

Sat down next to Himself?

It sounds like who ever teaches this Doctrine is besides them self, from what I can see?

I Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the MAN Christ Jesus

Do you see my point Jesus Christ was a man, God isn't a Man! Jesus Christ still is a man, A perfect spiritual man. It also says that no man has seen God at any time. People saw Jesus Christ all the time?
Also a mediator is a Go between, between two individuals, The two are God and men, if Christ is the Mediator and God both why would He need a mediator to Go between, it makes no logical sense from what I see.

Any one posting an answer to this please use scripture because I will not believe it if it doesn't line up with the Word. Also My question is based just upon this one clear scripture (God is not a man that he should lie, Did God lie in this verse?) which needs to be explained first, because if something taught crosses the many clear verses on a given subject, or the many clear verses on a subject are ignored in order to prove a point, that's a mishandling of the word which is not best. Bless Steve

For starters, do you recognize the writings of Peter to be authoritative?

 

[Sojourner<><]

For starters, do you recognize the writings of Peter to be authoritative?

Excuse me, it was actually Paul that I'm thinking about. My mistake.

 

[bella1955]

I think we are dealing with a Jehovah's Witness here. Can you tell us what faith you are, or am I correct?

 

[pletho]

For starters, do you recognize the writings of Peter to be authoritative?

I Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost

II Timothy 3:16 allscripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

God does but what does that have to do with the point made? Do you? please dont answer that becasue then we will be off that first subject, first question asked, will also probably go around in circles. bless steve

 

[Sojourner<><]

I Peter 1:21 For the prophecy cam e not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost

II Timothy 3:16 allscripture is given by inspiration of Gdo and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

God does but what does that have to do with the point made? Do you? please dont answer that becasue then we will be off that first subject, first question asked, will also probably go around in circles. bless steve

As I stated in my last post it was the writings of Paul I was thinking about. My mistake.

In Colossians Paul makes reference to both the Father and the Son in an interesting way:

"Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:..."

This is reinforced by the numerous statements Jesus made about being in the Father and the Father being in Him, especially when He stated: "he that hath seen me hath seen the Father" in John 14:9.

 

[pletho]

I think we are dealing with a Jehovah's Witness here. Can you tell us what faith you are, or am I correct?

I'm a christian, non denominational

 

[pletho]

As I stated in my last post it was the writings of Paul I was thinking about. My mistake.

In Colossians Paul makes reference to both the Father and the Son in an interesting way:

"Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:..."

This is reinforced by the numerous statements Jesus made about being in the Father and the Father being in Him, especially when He stated: "he that hath seen me hath seen the Father" in John 14:9.

You are avoiding the first question, the first hurdle, If God says he doesn't lie and that he is not a man and Jesus christ was a man then who is lying, God, Jesus Christ, the poeple who wrote the bible, Or the people who say that God is a man?

 

[Sojourner<><]

You are avoiding the first question, the first hurdle, If God says he doesn't lie and that he is not a man and Jesus christ was a man then who is lying, God, Jesus Christ, the poeple who wrote the bible, Or the people who say that God is a man, Jesus Christ?

Forgive me for being blunt but that was the answer to your question. Perhaps you should pray for discernment.

 

[GregoryTurner]

Could it be that Jesus is God but came to earth as a man doing the things He did to the Father as an example to us to follow?

 

[pletho]

As I stated in my last post it was the writings of Paul I was thinking about. My mistake.

In Colossians Paul makes reference to both the Father and the Son in an interesting way:

"Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:..."

This is reinforced by the numerous statements Jesus made about being in the Father and the Father being in Him, especially when He stated: "he that hath seen me hath seen the Father" in John 14:9.

You mis understand the scripture you are quoting. God is invisable, Jesus christ was not, Jesus Christ made known the invisible God by his actions in this world, he says in

John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily Verily, i say unto you, the Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the father do, for what things soever he doeth, these also the son likewise

He made know the invisible God by his walk, just like we are supposed to Do, followers of God

thoughts are invisible, and you make them known by actions, or words, it was the same with Christ, he made known God's heart to the world in his lifestyle his powerfilled walk.

 

[pletho]

Could it be that Jesus is God but came to earth as a man doing the things He did to the Father as an example to us to follow?

I guess if you contradict thousands of biblical scriptures, which seems to be what every wants to do, you could have all kinds of scenarios, what would be the point of having a written word to believe and follow if everyone clearly believed contrary to what was wrote or did contrary to what was to be done? Read my thread again slowly and you'll see the logic, God is not into confusing people, that would be stupid, it's that people refuse to believe and line up with what the word says to be true, God is not a man is very simple to understand any truth that crosses or negates this would have to be in error, it's just simple logic, like math, you cant get a correct algebra answer starting the equation off in error. Lets stick to this one clear truth God is not a man, Jesus Christ was a man, and Go from there lining are thoughts up with this, any thing we have learned that contradicts GOD"S WORD about Himself would be calling God a liar. Steve

 

[GregoryTurner]

I'll go back to post #1 and see if I can get what you are really saying...

 

[pletho]

Please stick to the Subject at hand in this thread, God is not a man, Jesus Christ is called a man. Someone is lying God or man

 

[GregoryTurner]

I seem to be having a difficult time wording my thoughts.

 

[pletho]

I seem to be having a difficult time wording my thoughts.

That's okay, no big deal I'm not here to argue or confuse but just to ask how that if God is not a man and Jesus Christ was a man how can people teach that he is God if it contradicts this simple plain logic.. Your loved of God

 

[icxn]

God is one in essence, but three hypostases (persons), Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Jesus Christ is the second person of the Trinity incarnate, that is, the Son who is God in essence (nature) assumed human nature and became man. Not two persons but one person, He who always was. So the Son who is one in nature with the Father, after the incarnation is known in two (unconfused) natures. When you read that Christ sat at the right hand of God understand to mean the glorification of the human nature that He assumed.

 

[pletho]

God is one in essence, but three hypostases (persons), Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Jesus Christ is the second person of the Trinity incarnate, that is, the Son who is God in essence (nature) assumed human nature and became man. Not two persons but one person, He who always was. So the Son who is one in nature with the Father, after the incarnation is known in two (unconfused) natures. When you read that Christ sat at the right hand of God understand to mean the glorification of the human nature that He assumed.

Good quote of the definition for the trinity, but that definition still crosses the verse in numbers and the truth that I've stated, also the Word trinity is not in the bible. is it? I've never seen it, I believe if I'm not mistaken the trinity was a hammered out man made doctrine according to all biblical scholors, and didn't even come into concretion as a doctrine until around the 4th century that's 400 years after the death of christ and teachings of the first century believers, Get the New Catholic Encyclopedia 1967, and read what it says about it, the trinity originated in the catholic church they openly admit they they made it up, it's common knowledge. people believe in it because it's taught but it's confusing and not logical and crosses the word, and they say you just have to take it on faith it's a mystery, God is into things being not confusing, He wouldn't make the truth hard to understand only error is confusing and hard to understand, May God The Father of our lord Jesus Christ, in the name of Jesus the Christ open the eyes of your understanding to see the truth simply in His Word, your loved of God, Bless steve

 

[Sojourner<><]

You mis understand the scripture you are quoting. God is invisable, Jesus christ was not, Jesus Christ made known the invisible God by his actions in this world, he says in

John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily Verily, i say unto you, the Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the father do, for what things soever he doeth, these also the son likewise

He made know the invisible God by his walk, just like we are supposed to Do, followers of God

thoughts are invisible, and you make them known by actions, or words, it was the same with Christ, he made known God's heart to the world in his lifestyle his powerfilled walk.

I don't see how I could be misunderstanding since I have only let scripture speak for itself. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." and "the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us" are very clear passages.

It is an interesting technicality that you've come up with though. Jesus is not a mere man that He should lie so I don't see how that contradicts the scripture you referenced.

 

[icxn]

Good quote of the definition for the trinity, but that definition still crosses the verse in numbers and the truth that I've stated, also the Word trinity is not in the bible. is it? I've never seen it, I believe if I'm not mistaken the trinity was a hammered out man made doctrine according to all biblical scholors, and didn't even come into concretion as a doctrine until around the 4th century that's 400 years after the death of christ and teachings of the first century believers, Get the New Catholic Encyclopedia 1967, and read what it says about it, the trinity originated in the catholic church they openly admit they they made it up, it's common knowledge. people believe in it because it's taught but it's confusing and not logical and crosses the word, and they say you just have to take it on faith it's a mystery, God is into things being not confusing, He wouldn't make the truth hard to understand only error is confusing and hard to understand, May God The Father of our lord Jesus Christ, in the name of Jesus the Christ open the eyes of your understanding to see the truth simply in His Word, your loved of God, Bless steve

At least now we know where you are coming from. And now is time for me to shut up. Have a good journey.

"On one occasion, some Arians went to Abba Sisoes, on the mountain of Abba Anthony, and immediately began to denounce the Orthodox. The Elder did not say anything to them; he merely called his disciple and said to him: 'Bring the book by St. Athanasios and read it.' They remained silent as their heresy was disclosed, and Abba Sisoes subsequently dismissed them, after wishing them a good journey." - The Desert Fathers