How can RCs and Protestants reconcile

[LittleLambofJesus]

As we see when we read the WHOLE verse and not just the part you highlighted in black...

...it is the people (the household) of God, not any institution, denomination, or particular branch of his followers, that is referred to as "the church."

This is interesting. This is the only verse in the NT that has this word.....

1 Tim 3:15 if ever yet I may be tarrying that ye may be being aware how it is binding in a house of God to be behaving which any is an out-called of God, living pillar and base/edraiwma <1477> of the truth.

1 Timothy 3:15 ean de bradunw ina eidhV pwV dei en oikw qeou anastrefesqai htiV estin ekklhsia qeou zwntoV stuloV kai edraiwma thV alhqeiaV

1477. hedraioma hed-rah'-yo-mah from a derivative of 1476; a support, i.e. (figuratively) basis:--ground

 

[chestertonrules]

I don't so. Show them to us if you have them.


That has already been answered and explained by several posters here. The church Jesus founded was not divided into denominations or communions. It was the assembly of all belivers in Him, even with doctrinal differences among them. That's all very much explained in scripture as well as testified to by historians.



If you mean, were they universally applicable, sure. If you want to suggest that "Catholic," which does not appear in the Bible and therefore cannot prove or disprove anything about the church Jesus founded, meant the Roman Catholic denomination of later centuries, no.

St. Ignatius, writing in approximately 105 AD:
Chapter 8. Let nothing be done without the bishop

See that you all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as you would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the CatholicChurch.



St. Clement, writing in approximately 95 AD:


Chapter 42. The Order of Ministers in the Church The apostles have preached the gospel to us from the Lord Jesus Christ; Jesus Christ [has done so] from God. Christ therefore was sent forth by God, and the apostles by Christ. Both these appointments, then, were made in an orderly way, according to the will of God. Having therefore received their orders, and being fully assured by the resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ, and established in the word of God, with full assurance of the Holy Ghost, they went forth proclaiming that the kingdom of God was at hand. And thus preaching through countries and cities, they appointed the first fruits [of their labours], having first proved them by the Spirit, to be bishops and deacons of those who should afterwards believe.


Chapter 44. The Ordinances of the Apostles, that There Might Be No Contention Respecting the Priestly Office.

Our apostles also knew, through our Lord Jesus Christ, that there would be strife on account of the office of the episcopate. For this reason, therefore, inasmuch as they had obtained a perfect fore-knowledge of this, they appointed those [ministers] already mentioned, and afterwards gave instructions, that when these should fall asleep, other approved men should succeed them in their ministry.



From the Martyrdom of Polycarp from the Letter of the Smyrnaeans(A.D. 69-155) :

Chapter 16. Polycarp is pierced by a dagger
At length, when those wicked men perceived that his body could not be consumed by the fire, they commanded an executioner to go near and pierce him through with a dagger. And on his doing this, there came forth a dove, and a great quantity of blood, so that the fire was extinguished; and all the people wondered that there should be such a difference between the unbelievers and the elect, of whom this most admirable Polycarp was one, having in our own times been an apostolic and prophetic teacher, and bishop of the CatholicChurch which is in Smyrna.

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

ACCKKKKK!!! I refuse to read any post with large and multi fonts

 

[Uphill Battle]

I do believe, Chesterton, that you changed the subject.

 

[sunlover1]

I would appreciate if you made yours bigger so I could read them better...

The first complaint that people are led to make when they don't like to hear what someone else has to say is to complain about font size or color content.

The next is to claim some sort of emotional content on the poster based on their own perceptions when there may be little if any at all with the poster.

Eventually it works its way down to calling people heretics


...and to eventually claim that they are demonically possessed.

So you are on the slippery slope lloj...

ACCKKKKK!!! I refuse to read any post with large and multi fonts

Uh oh, you know what THAT means LLOJ.
(look above to see where you're headed )

 

[sunlover1]

I do believe, Chesterton, that you changed the subject.

He didnt change the subject, it's been 'his' subject throughout hasnt it
Chesterton?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Uh oh, you know what THAT means LLOJ.
(look above to see where you're headed )

Well this is my thread I would hope posters would respect my wishes concerning the fonts.
Plus if the RCs want to promote their denomination, I recommend them starting their own thread. Thanks

 

[chestertonrules]

As we see when we read the WHOLE verse and not just the part you highlighted in black...

...it is the people (the household) of God, not any institution, denomination, or particular branch of his followers, that is referred to as "the church."

The Church, the household of God, was instituted by Jesus.

It is an institution.

If you reject those he instituted as leaders, you are rejecting him.

 

[squint]

The Church, the household of God, was instituted by Jesus.

It is an institution.

If you reject those he instituted as leaders, you are rejecting him.

Oh puhleese. Calling people unbelievers and Christ rejectors is a blatant violation of the rules. Where is a non-RCC mod when ya need 'em?

 

[sunlover1]

Well this is my thread I would hope posters would respect my wishes concerning the fonts.
Plus if the RCs want to promote their denomination, I recommend them starting their own thread. Thanks

Good point LL.
If i get too colorful, you let me know too...

 

[LJSGM]

Do you believe that Jesus Christ is the son of the living God? Then come, lets go pray together.

We can also have a little fun and do some discussing of scriptures too, with a peaceful mind of course.

 

[Albion]

The Church, the household of God, was instituted by Jesus.

It is an institution.

If you reject those he instituted as leaders, you are rejecting him.

It's not an institution in the sense of being an organization with dues, bylaws, etc. It's an invisible associateion of believers and their identities are known only to God.

But as for rejecting any leaders, none of those Jesus appointed are with us anymore, right?



ocjecs

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Good point LL.
If i get too colorful, you let me know too...

I'm sorry if I offended you bro and I forget that some may have vision problems. When certain posters use to post like that I would go:

 

[Yarddog]

I recommend the Papal office of the Pope being downgraded to just being a Bishop of equal in Rome.
and this is the 800 pound gorilla in this argument.

It's only that if the sides allow it to be.

The RCC stepping back from Papal Supremacy and Infallibility is an essential in any possible reunification involving major portions of the rest of the Christian world....but it can't happen without the Roman Church backtracking on a doctrinal matter it says was infallible in itself!

We are not going to live to see any major reunifications, but if significant ones come involving reformed Christian churches, it's a question whether they will go to EO rather than to the RCC. Doctrinally, Eastern Orthodoxy is more like Protestantism than the Roman Church is, but it's less interested.

There has already been a great deal of change is attitudes between the RCC and many other Churches. The easing of past tentions and Joint Declarations with the Lutherns and Orthodox have occurred in my lifetime.

Recognizing the Spirit of God exists in other Churches goes a long way.

 

[chestertonrules]

I do believe, Chesterton, that you changed the subject.

How's that?

I'm merely clarifying that what the apostles taught about the Church is what the Catholic Church is today.

Isn't that the subject?

 

[chestertonrules]

It's not an institution in the sense of being an organization with dues, bylaws, etc. It's an invisible associateion of believers and their identities are known only to God.

But as for rejecting any leaders, none of those Jesus appointed are with us anymore, right?



ocjecs

Their appointed successors are with us.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

How's that?

I'm merely clarifying that what the apostles taught about the Church is what the Catholic Church is today.

Isn't that the subject?

We can always discuss that on this thread

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7213672
Is Catholicism the same Church that the Apostles set up

 

[Uphill Battle]

The Church, the household of God, was instituted by Jesus.

It is an institution.

If you reject those he instituted as leaders, you are rejecting him.

the Greek word 'ekklesia' which comes from two words 'ek' meaning 'out' and 'kaleo' meaning to 'call.' Sure doesn't sound as an institution, an organization. Guess it means that only to those who profit from it.

 

[Albion]

Their appointed successors are with us.

And you speak to them using a Ouija board?

 

[chestertonrules]

the Greek word 'ekklesia' which comes from two words 'ek' meaning 'out' and 'kaleo' meaning to 'call.' Sure doesn't sound as an institution, an organization. Guess it means that only to those who profit from it.

It does to me. How can you consult an invisible collection of believers?

Who do you listen to when there are differences of opinion?

Matthew 18

17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

Luke 10
16"He who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you rejects me; but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me."

John 20
21Again Jesus said, "Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you." 22And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."

1 Timothy 3
15if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

2 Thes 2
15So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

Matthew 16

17Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. 18And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. 19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."