How can RCs and Protestants reconcile

[Rhamiel]

well first each group would have to get there house in order
the Catholic Church would have to gather together the Old Catholic churches, ok not that hard, it would not be easy, but it would not be something that seems impossible

next the Orthodox would have to get there house in order, first the "old calander" folk, ok that should be even simpler then the Catholics bringing back the Old Catholics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Old_Calendarists
then you have to get the Oriental Orthodox and the Eastern Orthodox to reunite, that will be hard, probably very hard
then we would need the Protestant Christians to be unified in one coherent denomination, I have no clue how that could even happen, I dunno, have a union between the Anglicans and the Baptists and hope the rest just follow suit?
but yeah, the best chance at unity would come from only dealing with those three blocks. none of those three blocks are "pure" the EO and OO are split up, the Catholics and the Old Catholics are split up, and almost every Protestant Denomination is split up
I think that if the EO and the RC would reunite, that would do a great deal of good for Christian unity, I think more Protestants would want to be involved with the re-unified Church, the Pope being in communion with the EO Patriarchs would make the Papacy seem less "scary"

maybe if the Muslims try to invade the USA and Europe, it would get all the Christians working together on atleast a secular leval, and then from there is would just spread into good will and a more fervent desire for unity?

 

[Rhamiel]

That's going to be a hard sell since the council that made the creed that the filioque was added to, didn't occur for another 25 years.

ok I was off by 25 years, but it was used to one degree or another in the west from very early on, the East did not really have a problem with it untill it became politically advantageous for it to "outrage" them 729 years latter

 

[HandmaidenOfGod]

next the Orthodox would have to get there house in order, first the "old calander" folk, ok that should be even simpler then the Catholics bringing back the Old Catholics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Old_Calendarists
then you have to get the Oriental Orthodox and the Eastern Orthodox to reunite, that will be hard, probably very hard

Just a point of clarification, I believe you are mixing up "Old Calander" with "Old Believers." Different groups within the Eastern Orthodox Church use either the Gregorian or Julian Calander. This is not a point of schism. In fact, in the Ukrainian Orthodox jurisdiction within the United States, there are some parishes that use the Julian Calander and some that use the Gregorian Calander. All are in communion with one another.

Those groups that have broken off for calander reasons (such as the one you cited) will never re-join because they don't believe in ecumenism with anyone. Period.


The "Old Believers" are a group that broke off from the Russian Orthodox Church in the 1700's for a myriad of reasons. Some do not believe in the priesthood, other's just broke off for small changes in tradition. They are NOT in communion with the Eastern Orthodox Church.

Also, there have been talks between the Eastern Orthodox Churches and Oriental Orthodox Churches in the past. While all are more or less in agreement that we believe the same thing, it's now a matter of overcoming history before reunification.

The other thing to remember is you will always have extremist schismatic groups that are more interested in pushing their agenda than serving Christ.

This exists in all groups/denominations.

It can't be avoided.

 

[Rhamiel]

Just a point of clarification, I believe you are mixing up "Old Calander" with "Old Believers." Different groups within the Eastern Orthodox Church use either the Gregorian or Julian Calander. This is not a point of schism. In fact, in the Ukrainian Orthodox jurisdiction within the United States, there are some parishes that use the Julian Calander and some that use the Gregorian Calander. All are in communion with one another.

Those groups that have broken off for calander reasons (such as the one you cited) will never re-join because they don't believe in ecumenism with anyone. Period.


The "Old Believers" are a group that broke off from the Russian Orthodox Church in the 1700's for a myriad of reasons. Some do not believe in the priesthood, other's just broke off for small changes in tradition. They are NOT in communion with the Eastern Orthodox Church.

Also, there have been talks between the Eastern Orthodox Churches and Oriental Orthodox Churches in the past. While all are more or less in agreement that we believe the same thing, it's now a matter of overcoming history before reunification.

The other thing to remember is you will always have extremist schismatic groups that are more interested in pushing their agenda than serving Christ.

This exists in all groups/denominations.

It can't be avoided.

thank you for correcting me on the "Old Believers" issue, there will always be some crazies out there, but I was just saying that because the OP had us broken down into three camps, well there is not even unity in each "camp" so I stated that the problem might be solved by just getting the three camps the OP stated. I do not know how practicle that is though

on a more practicle note, I do think that the reunion of the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church would draw a lot, maybe even a majority, of Protestants back to the reunited Church

 

[SecretOfFatima]

Considering the amount of thread on denominations and Catholacism, what can be done within Christianity to reconcile the main 3 sects of Christianity, primarily Orthodox, RC and Protestant.
Throw out a few ideas. Thanks

I recommend the Papal office of the Pope being downgraded to just being a Bishop of equal in Rome.

What does your question really mean?

Catholicism holds the fullness of the truth, you cannot expect RC to accept abortion or to loose some sacraments which the protestant churches removed but which were there from the time of Christ, in order to Reconcile with the protestant churches and some other sects. GOD would never allow that to happen (example: in the middle ages one Holy Father was planning to release a bad bible translation and he never made it, GOD promised to protect his church, and he surely protects the teachings of his church at that moment).

With regards to Orthodox, I see them in the same way as I see Catholicism, and IMO I think is just a matter of time before we see both churches become one again, maybe that day protestants will open their eyes and follow the example. I would say most Orthodox and Catholic's who truly follow the mystical events surrounding the faith know about this. But for us there really is no need to elaborate further about something that GOD has already explained and which both churches agree. Time will tell.

 

[squint]

A valid question may be how did they divide in the first place?

We as believers are commanded to love our neighbors as ourselves. There is no greater command. There is no greater calling. Doing this is the fulfillment of the entirety of the Gospel IN OURSELVES.

Now, why do I need the RCC or the Pope or the thoughts of Mr. Luther and his divisions to DO THAT?

Answer: WHO CARES? Let them have their religious games/rituals and whitewashed buildings.

There is only going to be one question asked of each of us INDIVIDUALLY. Did you love your neighbors as yourself? IF anyone thinks that their list of doctrinal requirements is going to be an 'alternate' for the primary, they are already fallen.

Believers should realize that there is another force in play within Christianity and with any religious system that is associated with loving our neighbors. There is RESISTANCE to this. It's a very real resistance. So tangible in some cases that you can openly view the other identity, even dialog with it.

The Law of the O.T. raised EVIL in Israel for them to be subsequently DIVIDED and SCATTERED...this comes with the territory and NO MAN can stop this from transpiring. That same Law raised EVIL in the hearts of MUSLIMS and divided and scattered them.

Division is EXACTLY what GOD MEANT/MEANS to happen.

All those pew sitters can 'think' they are all secure and gathered up under their little 'systems.' BUT the instant the command to love their neighbors as themselves comes into their hearts...THE RESISTOR arrives on time and on cue every single time in every single individual.

It's just a FACT Jack. And if one wants to LIVE in TRUTH one has to LIVE with the FACTS the Truth brings.

Trying to stop the earth from spinning on its axis so that one half can be perpetually in the sun would be an easier task than what you propose.

enjoy!

squint

 

[christianmomof3]

Well, one is for certain, when Jesus returns all the worldly matters which separate us will be done away with and it will be done. I can't wait.

Yarddog

That is true. We can only be One in Christ Jesus and not outside of Him. Until He returns, it will not happen. Until He returns, each group will stubbornly hold on to their "truths" and practices each believing they are right and everyone else is wrong. Only when Christ returns will all Christians be able to drop all of the extra things that they cling to and be able to focus on Christ and Christ alone and then we will be able to be One in Him.

11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.




20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; 21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: 23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Those are such wonderful verses. Praise the Lord that He is in us! May we enjoy Him and allow Him to perfect us more and more into His image as we grow in His life.

The simple answer: It won't happen...

That is true. It will not happen until the bride is ready and Christ returns.

Just a point of clarification, I believe you are mixing up "Old Calander" with "Old Believers." Different groups within the Eastern Orthodox Church use either the Gregorian or Julian Calander. This is not a point of schism. In fact, in the Ukrainian Orthodox jurisdiction within the United States, there are some parishes that use the Julian Calander and some that use the Gregorian Calander. All are in communion with one another.

Those groups that have broken off for calander reasons (such as the one you cited) will never re-join because they don't believe in ecumenism with anyone. Period.


The "Old Believers" are a group that broke off from the Russian Orthodox Church in the 1700's for a myriad of reasons. Some do not believe in the priesthood, other's just broke off for small changes in tradition. They are NOT in communion with the Eastern Orthodox Church.

Also, there have been talks between the Eastern Orthodox Churches and Oriental Orthodox Churches in the past. While all are more or less in agreement that we believe the same thing, it's now a matter of overcoming history before reunification.

The other thing to remember is you will always have extremist schismatic groups that are more interested in pushing their agenda than serving Christ.

This exists in all groups/denominations.

It can't be avoided.

That is interesting. I had not heard of that group before. That is one of the reasons that I like this board. I sometimes learn new interesting things like this.

As far as the extremist schismatic groups that are more interested in pushing their agendas than in serving and pursuing Christ, I think those will be some of the ones to whom He says "I never knew you".

In reality, most of the Christian groups have much more in common than that which separates them. If we love the Lord and are filled with Him as our life, we can be One in Him.

 

[Uphill Battle]

maybe if the Muslims try to invade the USA and Europe, it would get all the Christians working together on atleast a secular leval, and then from there is would just spread into good will and a more fervent desire for unity?

I was thinking along the same lines myself. You'd have to find something we "hate" more than each other.

on a more practicle note, I do think that the reunion of the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church would draw a lot, maybe even a majority, of Protestants back to the reunited Church

I don't think I'd agree with you on that point.

 

[katholikos]

Its amazing. Its been months since Ive been here and the same ground is all being covered in new threads. I guess I did not miss a thing.

Its like riding a bike: You just jump back on. LOL

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Its amazing. Its been months since Ive been here and the same ground is all being covered in new threads. I guess I did not miss a thing.

Its like riding a bike: You just jump back on. LOL

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7335722

27th January 2009, 11:21 AM

I'm Back

Bring It On

 

[katholikos]

If a major large protestant denomination came back to the Catholic Church, who is to say that its members would not freak out and leave for another protestant denomination?

 

[christianmomof3]

Here are some points that we should to follow in order to receive enlightenment from God - and they sort of apply to this situation as well:

2 Cor 4:6 Because the God who said, Out of darkness light shall shine, is the One who shined in our hearts to illuminate the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

We have to want God's shining upon us. We have to be willing to accept what the Lord shows us. W should open ourselves to the Lord
and be willing to put aside our selves - our views, feelings and opinions. We have to be willing to not dispute with God and we should live in His presence submitting to Christ.

In the situation here, people would have to want reconcilliation between the different Christian groups and be willing to admit that they are probably wrong in some of their opinions. I think that all of the groups have some things right and all of them have some things wrong. Unless they want reconcilliation, it won't happen. Unless people are willing to go to the cross and put their self and pride aside, it won't happen.

We need to be those willing to grow in Christ and desiring to express Him to others.

 

[Albion]

on a more practicle note, I do think that the reunion of the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church would draw a lot, maybe even a majority, of Protestants back to the reunited Church

It's interesting to me to read you saying that, because it's an idea that I've read before from other Catholics on CF. But why, I wonder, would anyone think that such a merger would induce Protestants, let alone a majority of them, to abandon their faith?

For one thing, most reformed Christians barely differentiate between RC and EO.

For another, there's that matter of doctrine. That a merger of churches that both deny the heart and soul of reformed Christian thinking would cause a rush to join in with them doesn't make sense.

I would venture to make a guess why, despite all of that, this notion is held by whose who do hold it. It's the mistaken idea that a formal unity, an institutional unity, an outward unity, an organizational unity--which is so important to Catholics--is imagined by them to be equally important to reformed Christians also.

But in fact, it is not.

We believe that all who are true believers in Christ, believers in the essentials of the faith, are already united in the only way that matters--as the people of God and as members of the Church of Christ. It is the faith in Christ that unites, not which Christian organization holds your membership. The external organizations are not much more important to us, as regards unity, than are different dioceses or parishes to you.

 

[Annolennar]

It's interesting to me to read you saying that, because it's an idea that I've read before from other Catholics on CF. But why, I wonder, would anyone think that such a merger would induce Protestants, let alone a majority of them, to abandon their faith?

For one thing, most reformed Christians barely differentiate between RC and EO.

I have to agree with Albion. Even though I hope and pray for the reconciliation of the CC and OC, I don't think it would make much of an impression on Protestants.

Growing up as a Protestant in America (waaaaaaaay out here in the West), the interactions between the Catholic and Orthodox Churches weren't really culturally relevant, if we heard of them at all.

 

[katholikos]

There is a magazin article about an entire Pentacostal parish with all the people becoming Catholic. I am trying to find it

 

[Uphill Battle]

I'm of the mind that the average Catholic mindset towards whether or not the Protestants reunite with them is no better than "meh, whatever." I think a WHOLE lot more attention is placed on if the EO and RCC (and perhaps the Anglicans) could reunify, but mainstream protestantism is an afterthought.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

There is a magazin article about an entire Pentacostal parish with all the people becoming Catholic. I am trying to find it

Don't bother. That was brought up on another thread concerning Protestant ministers converting to Roman Catholicism. I will try and find it....

 

[katholikos]

There is a magazine article about an entire Pentacostal parish with all the people becoming Catholic. I am trying to find it

Oh. Here it is. The description at the bottom of the article says: "Reverend Alex Jones is pastor of the Maranatha Christian Church in Detroit, Michigan. In May, he and his congregation voted to enter the Catholic Church. For more information on this subject, write to Maranatha Christian Church, 4801 Oakman Boulevard, Detroit, Michigan 48204, or e-mail Mchurch788@aol.com ".

Here is the link: LINK

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by katholikos There is a magazin article about an entire Pentacostal parish with all the people becoming Catholic. I am trying to find it

Don't bother. That was brought up on another thread concerning Protestant ministers converting to Roman Catholicism. I will try and find it....

I don't have time to go thru this whole thread but I know a post was put up concerning that.......

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7336284
Hundreds of Protestant Clergy Converting to Catholicism. Why?

 

[Albion]

Oh. Here it is. The description at the bottom of the article says: "Reverend Alex Jones is pastor of the Maranatha Christian Church in Detroit, Michigan. In May, he and his congregation voted to enter the Catholic Church. For more information on this subject, write to Maranatha Christian Church, 4801 Oakman Boulevard, Detroit, Michigan 48204, or e-mail Mchurch788@aol.com ".

Abberations like this one don't really prove anything one way or the other for the subject we're discussing, though.

It's also worth knowing more than just that this congregation voted to join the Roman Catholic Church along with its pastor.

Maranatha Christian Church had 200 members when Rev. Jones began talking about converting to Catholicism. The membership dipped to less than 100. By the time the vote to join the RCC occurred, only 39 members voted "yes." Ultimately 54 went with him.

BUT the congregation doesn't exist as a new Catholic parish, and Rev. Jones is not a pastor anywhere.

Some of the 54 former members of Maranatha returned to being Pentecostals and so joined other Pentecostal churches. Rev. Jones himself works for the Archdiocese of Detroit instead of pastoring. He helps in several Catholic parishes but only as a deacon.