How Can Molecules Think?

[partinobodycular]

while there is enough evidence to show it is not a simulation.

Such as?

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

From what I've seen, it depends on the depth of a person's own inner experience of deep consciousness.

As a meditator now of 50 years I cannot say I have an answer. Some deep silence and stillness, awareness without “thought” samadhi style. Something there but without faith to help interpret the experience it seems more of a silent void. John of the cross apophatic realm. Perhaps like the awareness of a molecule or lets get fancy and say monad.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Have you ever read “Autobiography of a Yogi”?
There are accounts of yogis leaving their bodies and returning.

 

[FredVB]

Such as?

Physicists Have Mathematically Proven the Universe Is Not a Simulation

A new study applies logic and physics to provide a definitive answer to one of science’s greatest questions. It’s an idea often explored in science fiction: what if our entire universe is actually a simulation created by an advanced civilization’s supercomputer? New research from UBC Okanagan su

scitechdaily.com

 

[Bob Crowley]

And yet curiously there has never been any evidence of a soul existing.

I dispute that. There may not be any "Scientific" evidence of a soul existing, but there's plenty of anecdotal evidence, which is often relied upon in court. That's what witnesses are for, and that's why perjury is treated so seriously.

I've long maintained that the night my father died, he turned up in my bedroom. Neither of us knew where the other lived, but he was sent to apologise for his behaviour. As he said himself on that night "I've been an absolute mongrel to you!"

A lady I met in my last job as a community transport driver said her husband turned up as "something white" and sat on the foot of the bed. She said she was freaking out, but when the thing spoke it was her husband. He also apologised for his abusive behaviour. Interestingly he appeared to their eldest daughter as well and apologised to her. Apparenlty he'd been most abusive to her by far out of all their children.

A Catholic psychiatrist I knew (unfortunately he died last year so I can't call on him for personal testimony) said that he was attending a mass at a Catholic Church. They announced a parishioner had died that morning. But he also knew her as a patient.

He said to me "She was in the church!" He could see her. He said she seemed to be trying to get his attention, but gave up after a while and moved to the other side of the church. He thought she might have had family on that side.

A fellow parishioner I know who does a lot of counselling work said to me one day that "Last goodbyes are fairly common".

There's plenty of anecdotal evidence, which is precisely the same sort of evidence we rely on for Christ's resurrected body and those of the other dead who rose with Him. We don't have any scientific evidence at all. We rely on the testimony of witnesses.

If you were to ask around the population generally I'd bet a pound to a penny that quite a few people have seen deceased relatives and / or friends, usually not long after they've died.

There was another incident in my own life. When I was quite young, an aunt died suddenly. She'd had glandular fever and it weakened her heart. She was standing on the back stairs brushing her daughter's hair and dropped dead from a heart attack.

We (our family) drove to her home to offer condolences. They took a bit longer in those days to take the bodies away. I blundered into the bedroom and she was still lying in state on the bed.

But as we were leaving and I was standing on the footpath, she "walked" onto their front porch and looked at us. She gave my father a real look of judgement. Then she looked at me and it wasn't much better. Then she looked back at him again with this look of judgement, turned and walked back into the house.

My father turned to me with a demonic look on his face and snarled "Get in the car!!". So I got in the car. But I was only about six or seven at the time and it rattled me.

Years later, probably when i was in my thirties my mother told me the aunt had been a devout Catholic. I suspect she had been shown how my father was and would treat her husband's sister and her children. Hence the look of judgement.

There's plenty of anecdotal evidence around, and a lot the witnesses are honest and reliable people, like Mary and the apostles who witnessed the risen Christ. They went from being frightened men to martyrs willing to die for what they had seen.

But there's not a scrap of Scientific evidence that what they saw existed. it's anecdotal evidence, which is often relied upon in a court of law.

 

[Larniavc]

There may not be any "Scientific" evidence of a soul existing

That’s why souls don’t exist and witness testimony is widely known as prone to error.

 

[BCP1928]

That’s why souls don’t exist and witness testimony is widely known as prone to error.

The error lies in assuming that substance dualism is a fundamental Christian doctrine.

 

[partinobodycular]

Physicists Have Mathematically Proven the Universe Is Not a Simulation

A new study applies logic and physics to provide a definitive answer to one of science’s greatest questions. It’s an idea often explored in science fiction: what if our entire universe is actually a simulation created by an advanced civilization’s supercomputer? New research from UBC Okanagan su

scitechdaily.com

It sounds impressive whenever scientists say that they've proved something, but one needs to be careful about misinterpreting what scientists mean by proved.

As far as this particular study goes, I'm with Sabine on giving it a 9 out of 10 on the BS meter, and I'd already filed it in my evidence database accordingly. But still, I'll give you an 'A' for effort.

 

[Bob Crowley]

That’s why souls don’t exist and witness testimony is widely known as prone to error.

I've usually got a pretty fair idea whether I've seen something or not. I used the same brain and optic senses to see my father's spirit the night he turned up and to take in the bedroom I was in at the time.

There was a rather plain chipboard bookcase against the wall, and I can still remember seeing it through him if I wanted to.

In other words I had no issue seeing the ordinary things around me, and the most unusual spiritual witness at the same time.

I know my mind better than you know my mind thanks.

 

[Larniavc]

I've usually got a pretty fair idea whether I've seen something or not. I used the same brain and optic senses to see my father's spirit the night he turned up and to take in the bedroom I was in at the time.

Hypnogogic or hypnopompic hallucination. Really common. It’s not the spirits of our dead loved ones.

 

[Larniavc]

I know my mind better than you know my mind thanks.

But not human psychology obviously.

 

[Bob Crowley]

Hypnogogic or hypnopompic hallucination. Really common. It’s not the spirits of our dead loved ones.

When your father turns up the night he died, and apologises for the way he treated you, it's not a hypnogogic or hypnopompic hallucination, esecially when i didn't even know he'd died. I didn't find out for another four days by normal human methods when one of my uncles turned up to tell me.

Incidentally the uncle was my mother's brother and it was his wife who died brushing her daughter's hair years before as related in my post above.

Secondly when our exchange had elements such as "What is this?? A dream or something??" to which my father replied "No, it's not a dream. I died tonight." And "It wasn't easy for me either you know and I never had a chance to see anything like this!"

To which I replied "I know it wasn't easy! I knew that by the time I was twelve."

It was no hallucination, and his departing scream just before he disappeared again was terrifying. Something was coming for him. I think he's in hell personally.

You weren't there to see it, were you?

He also said "You'll become a Christian" as I was an atheist at the time. And "You'll meet a pastor. You'll think he's great, but all he'll do is discourage you even more!"

I met the pastor shortly after I became Christian in late 1982, and before I left his church in 1991 as I got married and moved away (he died himself in 1992) he apologised to me. I asked him what he was apologising for and he said "You needed encouragement but all I've done is to discourage you even more".

I'd often told him about my father's apparition and pointed out he'd just quoted my "dead" father back to me word for word.

You can shove your arrogance and your "Hypnogogic or hypnopompic hallucination". You think you know it all because you've read a bit about psychology.

How wrong you are!

As you'll eventually find out.

 

[Larniavc]

When your father turns up the night he died, and apologises for the way he treated you, it's not a hypnogogic or hypnopompic hallucination, esecially when i didn't even know he'd died. I didn't find out for another four days by normal human methods when one of my uncles turned up to tell me.

How does that stop it being a hallucination of the kind described. A person does not need to be dead to appear in a hallucination.

I’ve had hypnopompics of Cpt Kirk and Mr Spock.

 

[Bob Crowley]

How does that stop it being a hallucination of the kind described. A person does not need to be dead to appear in a hallucination.

I’ve had hypnopompics of Cpt Kirk and Mr Spock.

Maybe you did, but this was my own father, someone I'd known all too well for 24 years at that time. I knew well and truly what he looked like, what he sounded like and his vile temper, which he managed to lose at one point during the discussion.

It wasn't a hallucination, dream or nightmare. I sat up in bed and we talked. I initialy felt something like a shake on my back, rolled over in bed and sat up. As I did so something started to take shape near the door. It was him.

My first words were "How the hell did you get in here??!!" He looked a bit surprised actually. No doubt he'd been told to apologise for the way he'd treated me, and bingo!" - he found himself in my room. He didn't know where I lived and I didn't know where he lived. I didn't want to know and I didn't want him to know. I couldn't stand him.

His first words after he'd moved towards the foot of the bed were "I've come (or I've been sent) to apologise for the way I've treated you. We had no idea what you were going through".

I replied with some anger "You mean you had no idea what you were doing to me!"

It went on from that.

Incidentally his body was lying dead in a flat several kilometres away, but despite having no brain, no organs of speech, no eyes and no ears, he could talk, think, see and hear. Whether he still had a sense of smell or touch I wouldn't know, although Hell is supposed to have a vile stink which is probably an additional punishment for those who go there, so I assume they do have some sense of smell. And if they can feel pain, then obviously they have something akin to 'touch" ie. pain sensors even if they're spiritual.

Somehow or other our soul is bound up with our body while we're still alive on earth, but when they become separated at death, the soul retains our intellectual and communication capacity, while the body starts to disintegrate.

This means that those who suffer degenerative mental conditions while they are in the body eg. dementia, alzheimers etc, will suddenly find they have their mental functions back.

The downside will be that because they could not remember their past while still on earth, they would not be able to repent of their pre-illness sins if they had any since they would not remember them.

 

[Bob Crowley]

On the stink which pervades hell as I mentioned above -

Exorcist Diary #307: The Fifth Suffering of Hell

["The Annunciation to Mary- Lily and Violet", Holly Schapker] Our exorcism session was well underway when one of the assisting priests arrived late. He walked into the room and exclaimed, "What is that horrible stench?" No one else smelled anything. Similarly, a woman, apparently with some...

www.catholicexorcism.org

St. Faustina, in her famous vision, described seven awful tortures of hell including:

The fifth torture is continual darkness and a terrible suffocating smell, and, despite the darkness, the devils and the souls of the damned see each other and all the evil, both of others and their own.

Satan Stinks | Fr. Dwight Longenecker

When I prepare for a homily I often ask the Spirit to make one word or phrase jump off the page for me. This week in the gospel of the raising of Lazarus the word was "stench". Lazarus' body was in the grave for four days

dwightlongenecker.com

The mystics who have glimpsed hell report that hell stinks. It smells of sulfur–rotten eggs–death and decay. Furthermore, exorcists report that in encounters with demons there is often an unearthly and ungodly stench. Death stinks. Demons stink. The Devil Stinks. Sin stinks. Satan Stinks.

Since it stinks, the souls in Hell obviously have some sort of sense of smell, despite being pure spirits.

 

[Larniavc]

Incidentally his body was lying dead in a flat several kilometres away, but despite having no brain, no organs of speech, no eyes and no ears, he could talk, think, see and hear.

Do you understand what a hallucination is? None of the details you note rules out a hallucination.

 

[Bob Crowley]

I know what a hallucination is and I can categorically state the business of my father was NOT a hallucination.

I think we can both leave it at that.

 

[Ophiolite]

I know what a hallucination is and I can categorically state the business of my father was NOT a hallucination.

I think we can both leave it at that.

Based on the foregoing I can categorically state, respectfully and understanding the importance to you of the event, that you do not know what a hallucination is.

 

[Bob Crowley]

When i need you to psycho-analyse me I'll ask for it.

I did see a psychiatrist for a few years. It started due to depression but that was pretty much fixed with Prozac.

I kept going because we both shared similar spiritual experiences.

I suppose about four years ago he said "Something strange happened last weekend".

I asked him what it was. He said he'd been going to a Catholic Church in a suburb called Indooroopilly in Brisbane. They announced that a parishioner had died that morning. But she's also been one of his parishioners.

He said "She was in the church!" He could see her. He said she seemed to be trying to get his attention, but gave up after a while and moved to the other side of the church. He thought she might have had family on that side.

Now I used to see him only every three, four or five months as it wasn't urgent by that time. But he had his "ghostly" experience the very weekend before I was due to see him for my very next appointment viz. "last weekend". You might say he had confirmation of what I'd been talking about.

I'd mentioned to him quite a number of times about my episode with my father, and now he had an experience but this time he was wide awake and in church.

I also mentioned the episoe to my Presbyterian pastor. My father predicted I'd meet him viz. "You'll become a Christian .... You'll meet a pastor. You'll think he's great, but all he'll do is to discourage you even more!" (than he had himself).

Late in the day before I left the pastor's church in 1991, he apologised to me with the words "I owe you an apology .... You needed encouragement, but all I've done is to discourage you even more!" So I mentioned what my father had said and he blurted out "You really did see your father that night!"

When I need your arrogant know-it-all opinion, I'll ask for it.

 

[Ophiolite]

When i need you to psycho-analyse me I'll ask for it.

I did see a psychiatrist for a few years. It started due to depression but that was pretty much fixed with Prozac.

I kept going because we both shared similar spiritual experiences.

I suppose about four years ago he said "Something strange happened last weekend".

I asked him what it was. He said he'd been going to a Catholic Church in a suburb called Indooroopilly in Brisbane. They announced that a parishioner had died that morning. But she's also been one of his parishioners.

He said "She was in the church!" He could see her. He said she seemed to be trying to get his attention, but gave up after a while and moved to the other side of the church. He thought she might have had family on that side.

Now I used to see him only every three, four or five months as it wasn't urgent by that time. But he had his "ghostly" experience the very weekend before I was due to see him for my very next appointment viz. "last weekend". You might say he had confirmation of what I'd been talking about.

I'd mentioned to him quite a number of times about my episode with my father, and now he had an experience but this time he was wide awake and in church.

I also mentioned the episoe to my Presbyterian pastor. My father predicted I'd meet him viz. "You'll become a Christian .... You'll meet a pastor. You'll think he's great, but all he'll do is to discourage you even more!" (than he had himself).

Late in the day before I left the pastor's church in 1991, he apologised to me with the words "I owe you an apology .... You needed encouragement, but all I've done is to discourage you even more!" So I mentioned what my father had said and he blurted out "You really did see your father that night!"

When I need your arrogant know-it-all opinion, I'll ask for it.

The words "respectfully and understanding the importance of the event to you" were not some idle throwaway, but a compassionate and empathetic recognition of how much the experience meant to you. I regret that your sensitivity on the matter caused you to overlook or misinterpret these words. Since you don't value my opinion, and why should you, there was really no reason to get so upset about it. I'll try to avoid distrubing your beliefs in future.