How can it be a "New Language" when it "cannot be expressed in words"????

Daniel Marsh

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2015
9,750
2,615
Livingston County, MI, US
✟199,779.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Romans 8:26 "For example, we don't know what God wants us to pray for. But the Holy Spirit prays for us with groanings that cannot be expressed in words."

How can it be a "New Language" when it "cannot be expressed in words"????
 

John Hyperspace

UnKnown ReMember
Oct 3, 2016
2,385
1,272
53
Hyperspace
✟35,143.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Romans 8:26 "For example, we don't know what God wants us to pray for. But the Holy Spirit prays for us with groanings that cannot be expressed in words."

How can it be a "New Language" when it "cannot be expressed in words"????

What do you mean, "new language"? What is the "it"?
 
Upvote 0

Galatea

Well-Known Member
Oct 18, 2016
2,257
1,891
44
Alabama
✟70,081.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Upvote 0

Ken Behrens

Well-Known Member
Sep 5, 2016
1,494
417
76
Milford, Delaware, USA
Visit site
✟32,775.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Hey, I read tne links, but am not really understanding what sentics is all about. Can people's emotions create certain fingertip pressures? Where does sound come in? I never heard about this before, so my interest is piqued.
Every move you make, every sound you utter, contains a waveform. The waveforms are inborn, much as an animal can tell if the other animal's sound is fear or desire for sex, and are the same in all cultures. We are communicating all the time. This, plus environmental context, is the language of groaning.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: Galatea
Upvote 0

Galatea

Well-Known Member
Oct 18, 2016
2,257
1,891
44
Alabama
✟70,081.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Every move you make, every sound you utter, contains a waveform. The waveforms are inborn, much as an animal can tell if the other animal's sound is fear or desire for sex, and are the same in all cultures. We are communicating all the time. This, plus environmental context, is the language of groaning.
What exactly are the waveforms? Are they sounds or touches or both? It seems that the article was talking about fingertip pressures and people being able to tell the emotions from different pressures?
 
Upvote 0

yeshuaslavejeff

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Jan 6, 2005
39,944
11,098
okie
✟214,996.00
Faith
Anabaptist
Every move you make, every sound you utter, contains a waveform. The waveforms are inborn, much as an animal can tell if the other animal's sound is fear or desire for sex, and are the same in all cultures. We are communicating all the time. This, plus environmental context, is the language of groaning.
Sometimes it is even possible to tell,
if you happen to be within ten miles or so,
when a woman is in childbirth delivering a baby ....

:)

with no words at all.... (none that can be posted anyway ) haha
 
Upvote 0

Ken Behrens

Well-Known Member
Sep 5, 2016
1,494
417
76
Milford, Delaware, USA
Visit site
✟32,775.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
What exactly are the waveforms? Are they sounds or touches or both? It seems that the article was talking about fingertip pressures and people being able to tell the emotions from different pressures?
They are how you move into and out of changes in your body position, etc. They affect pretty much all your muscles. Like, say you are playing on the worship team, but thinking about the cute girl in the front row? Or jealous of the other guitar player because of his new effects pedal? Your finger will move the guitar string different, or the drumsticks different. Instead of a straight stroke, you will start slower and move faster as you make the move, then slow down again, but in step with the waveform of jealousy or sexual response. This will shape the sound of the note slightly. Usually the congregation is dimly aware that there is "some kind of spirit in the room" if it happens a lot, but I have seen very few who have any idea why.

Say you are angry with the guy puling out (or not pulling out fast enough) of the parking lot ahead of you. You will lean on the gas or brake just a little different, softer then harder, but timed to the waveform of anger. Others will see the car move and feel your anger.

Watch people on the street, as they walk, move, drive, look around. Every move tells you something, if you are sensitive. The Scripture simply tells us that to pray with these responses is fine with God.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: Galatea
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Ken Behrens

Well-Known Member
Sep 5, 2016
1,494
417
76
Milford, Delaware, USA
Visit site
✟32,775.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Sometimes it is even possible to tell,
if you happen to be within ten miles or so,
when a woman is in childbirth delivering a baby ....

:)

with no words at all.... (none that can be posted anyway ) haha
Jewish Bible commentary tells us that before the fall, Adam's consciousness covered the entire earth. It's great Jesus is restoring gradually what Adam lost.
 
Upvote 0

Galatea

Well-Known Member
Oct 18, 2016
2,257
1,891
44
Alabama
✟70,081.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
They are how you move into and out of changes in your body position, etc. They affect pretty much all your muscles. Like, say you are playing on the worship team, but thinking about the cute girl in the front row? Or jealous of the other guitar player because of his new effects pedal? Your finger will move the guitar string different, or the drumsticks different. Instead of a straight stroke, you will start slower and move faster as you make the move, then slow down again, but in step with the waveform of jealousy or sexual response. This will shape the sound of the note slightly. Usually the congregation is dimly aware that there is "some kind of spirit in the room" if it happens a lot, but I have seen very few who have any idea why.

Say you are angry with the guy puling out (or not pulling out fast enough) of the parking lot ahead of you. You will lean on the gas or brake just a little different, softer then harder, but timed to the waveform of anger. Others will see the car move and feel your anger.

Watch people on the street, as they walk, move, drive, look around. Every move tells you something, if you are sensitive. The Scripture simply tells us that to pray with these responses is fine with God.
So it's basically body language that results in sounds? I know I'm sounding stupid, but I don't really understand how the people in other cultures can know what people felt via fingertip pressure sounds?
 
Upvote 0

Ken Behrens

Well-Known Member
Sep 5, 2016
1,494
417
76
Milford, Delaware, USA
Visit site
✟32,775.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
So it's basically body language that results in sounds? I know I'm sounding stupid, but I don't really understand how the people in other cultures can know what people felt via fingertip pressure sounds?
Body language that affects sounds. It also affects movements. And everything you create.

Let's see if I can get specific: http://www.rexresearch.com/clynsens/clynes.htm Let's compare one I gave as an example; joyful praise of God form the stage vs. looking at the cute girl in the front row. Compare the left and right drawings at the bottom of the columns. Every two seconds your body cycles one or the other. If I recall correctly the top line is vertical pressure, the bottom horizontal pressure. In the beginning of each two seconds that you are "making a joyful noise", your finger comes down about 100 grams harder than the base line, but there is no lateral movement. If the music is at 120 beats per minute (common in praise music), you naturally accent every first beat of four, which comes every 2 seconds (that's what makes it sound like praise music in fact - it mixes with the inborn response). Now, start looking at the cute girl. The pressure increases, become a little later in the cycle, and your hand also moves horizontally. You sort of miss the beat both timewise, and where it is to fall. It sounds like you are distracted. This sets the other musicians on edge (and the congregation too) if it continues.

Now, take the same situation on a street. You are walking along, at 120 steps per minute, because you are happy, accenting every fourth step. You see the cute girl, and you lose your rhythm and almost trip to one side. Anyone watching sees the distraction, and, because the waveforms are inborn, can easily make a joke about what happened to you.

The waveform affects whatever muscles you are using at the moment - fingers, feet, balance, speech.......The precise timing of the accents and imprecision of the results tells all.

If you can get interpreting the graphs in your head, try groaning for the different emotions, like love, joy, reverence, grief, and you'll get the idea.

The waveforms are inborn, thus cros-scultural.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: Galatea
Upvote 0

Galatea

Well-Known Member
Oct 18, 2016
2,257
1,891
44
Alabama
✟70,081.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Body language that affects sounds. It also affects movements. And everything you create.

Let's see if I can get specific: http://www.rexresearch.com/clynsens/clynes.htm Let's compare one I gave as an example; joyful praise of God form the stage vs. looking at the cute girl in the front row. Compare the left and right drawings at the bottom of the columns. Every two seconds your body cycles one or the other. If I recall correctly the top line is vertical pressure, the bottom horizontal pressure. In the beginning of each two seconds that you are "making a joyful noise", your finger comes down about 100 grams harder than the base line, but there is no lateral movement. If the music is at 120 beats per minute (common in praise music), you naturally accent every first beat of four, which comes every 2 seconds (that's what makes it sound like praise music in fact - it mixes with the inborn response). Now, start looking at the cute girl. The pressure increases, become a little later in the cycle, and your hand also moves horizontally. You sort of miss the beat both timewise, and where it is to fall. It sounds like you are distracted. This sets the other musicians on edge (and the congregation too) if it continues.

Now, take the same situation on a street. You are walking along, at 120 steps per minute, because you are happy, accenting every fourth step. You see the cute girl, and you lose your rhythm and almost trip to one side. Anyone watching sees the distraction, and, because the waveforms are inborn, can easily make a joke about what happened to you.

The waveform affects whatever muscles you are using at the moment - fingers, feet, balance, speech.......The precise timing of the accents and imprecision of the results tells all.

If you can get interpreting the graphs in your head, try groaning for the different emotions, like love, joy, reverence, grief, and you'll get the idea.

The waveforms are inborn, thus cros-scultural.
Thanks for explaining this. It's quite interesting. I know about body language and its importance in communication, but did not know that our body language also makes sounds. This is something I had not thought of before now.
 
Upvote 0

Ken Behrens

Well-Known Member
Sep 5, 2016
1,494
417
76
Milford, Delaware, USA
Visit site
✟32,775.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Thanks for explaining this. It's quite interesting. I know about body language and its importance in communication, but did not know that our body language also makes sounds. This is something I had not thought of before now.
The body language does not make sounds. It affects sounds as you make them. The sound changes depending on what the body is expressing.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: Galatea
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Biblicist

Full Gospel believer
Mar 27, 2011
7,023
992
Melbourne, Australia
✟51,094.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
This particular 'sub-topic' of the Tongues-Glossolalia thread if handled properly could end up being one of the better discussions that could be found on this forum. When Rom 8:26 is discussed it is often done so in isolation from the rest of this intensely Pneumatic chapter. (The term ‘Pneumatic’ or ‘Pneumatology’ refers to the study of the Person and Ministry of the Holy Spirit).

As a Pentecostal I should be expected to understand how Paul is emphasising the role of the Holy Spirit within the life of the individual Believer, but the more time I spend considering this majestic chapter I really wonder if I have appreciated as much as I think that I do.

In my opinion, for those who have not spent all that much time on this chapter, it would be well worth their time to go through it and maybe spend a few weeks pondering over Paul’s Paterology, his Christology and Pneumatology. In the following verses I have left a few passages blank to concentrate on Paul’s Pneumatology which connects with the primary verses of 26 & 27.

Romans 8 (NIV) - Life Through the Spirit

1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,
2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death.
3 . . .
4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
5 Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires.
6 The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace.
7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so.
8 . . .
9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.
10 But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness.
11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you.
12 . .
13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.
14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God.
15 The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.”
16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children.
17 . . .
18 . . .
19 For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed.
20 . . .
22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time.
23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies.​
24 . . .
25 . . .
26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans.
27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God.​
28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.
29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters.
30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.​
In the following graphic I have marked verse 26 as it connects back to the previous verses with “In the same way…” where other versions will say much the same thing with ‘Likewise…’, ‘And in a like manner…’

The words that are highlighted in yellow are also vitally important and of course the stenagmois found in the circle is where most discussions revolve around. In verse 27 the yellow highlights show how Paul is emphasising the connection where it the Holy Spirit who directly intercedes on our behalf (when we pray in the Spirit being tongues) and that it is the Father who searches our hearts (motives) as the Spirit is praying for us.

Rom 8_26-27 (GEINT).jpg

Gordon Fee in God's Empowering Presence (1996) allocated 12 pages to verses 26 & 27 alone so the following is only an excerpt.

God's Empowering Presence: The Holy Spirit in the Letters of Paul, Gordon D. Fee (1996) pgs.575-586 [pp.581-82 shown and all footnotes excluded]

2. The present sentences, in fact, correspond remarkably with what Paul elsewhere calls “praying with/in the Spirit” (1 Cor 14:14-15; Eph 6:18). These correspondences occur at two crucial points: (a) the Spirit is the subject of the verb “interceding,” that is, the Spirit himself is seen as praying from within us and (b) the persons involved do not understand what the Spirit is saying—or not saying, as the case may be.

When we turn to Paul’s other notations about prayer, especially private prayer, besides the prayer reports of various kinds (which describe intelligible praying), we have especially the description of his own prayer life in 1 Cor 14:14-15, that it is of two kinds: praying with his mind and praying with his S/spirit. Although this text is too allusive for us to know for sure what “praying with his mind” meant, the context suggests that it does not mean “prayer without words,” that is, inaudible, but prayer in which he could understand the words that he spoke because they basically generated from within his own mind. As we noted in our discussion of that text, “praying in the Spirit” in that context can refer only to the praying in tongues about which he speaks in vv. 2, 19, and 28—private, articulated but “inarticulate” with regard to his mind (that is, the Spirit prays and the mind itself is unfruitful in this case), and “to himself and to God.” He further affirms that he does this more than all of them (v. 18), and wishes such prayer for all of them (v. 5) precisely because it edifies the one so praying (v. 4)—but not in the assembly, of course (v. 19), because there it does not edify the community as a whole (v. 4).

Even though there is still some mystery here—for all of us—several features about that second form of praying are noteworthy for our present purposes: (a) On the one hand, Paul himself distinguishes between the uninterpreted tongue in private prayer and that which is public and therefore needs interpretation (v. 19). (b) On the other hand, Paul indicates (14:14-15) that private “praying in tongues” requires no interpretation; rather, one’s prayer is “by him/herself” and “to God” (vv. 2, 28); thus in such praying “the mind” does not enter into the prayer as such (v. 13). (c) Such prayer is specifically said to be “by the Spirit” (v. 2); and in vv. 14-15 he says “my S/spirit prays,” i.e., the Spirit prays in tongues through me. (d) In such prayer by the Spirit one speaks “mysteries” to God. (e) That such praying is “vocalized” almost goes without saying; how does one “speak” in a “tongue” and not do so “aloud”? And (f) even though such prayer does not proceed by way of the mind, Paul is nonetheless adamant that he will engage in it (vv. 14- 15) and that those so praying are “edified” (v. 4). Finally, since this is the only form of prayer in Paul’s letters that is specifically said to be 7cv8ujicm (“by the Spirit”), and since Paul wishes that all would so pray (v. 5), it is arguable, although not certain, that this is also what he meant when he urged the Ephesians to “pray ἐν πνεύματι” (6:18, q.v.).

The significant areas of correspondence are (a) that the Spirit prays within the believer, and (b) does so with “words” that are not understood by the person praying. The other possible correspondence, of course, is between “speaking mysteries by the Spirit” in 1 Cor 14:2 and “the Spirit interceding with inarticulate groanings” in our present passage.

A Shorter Guide to the Holy Spirit, Anthony C. Thiselton (2016) pp.184-86

Prayer and Worship in the Context
of the Spirit and the Trinity

1. Prayer as Intra-Trinitarian Dialogue:
To God through Christ by the Holy Spirit
Of the Christian experiences which conspicuously depend on the ministry of the Holy Spirit, prayer and worship constitute probably the most striking. Just as we cannot try to make ourselves holy without the aid of the Holy Spirit, so also we are disinclined to give God his due in worship, reverence, thanksgiving, and love, unless we are responding to the promptings of the Holy Spirit. Prayer is notoriously challenging and “difficult Paul acknowledges this and explains in Romans that we cannot pray alone without the aid of the Holy Spirit.

This becomes abundantly clear in Rom. 8:26-27. In 8:16 Paul declares that it is the Holy Spirit who witnesses within us that we are children of God. Then in 8:26-27 he is more explicit. He writes, “The Spirit helps us in our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we ought, but that very Spirit intercedes with sighs too deep for words. And God, who searches the heart, knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.”

Every phrase here carries weight. First, Paul affirms that, if we try to pray on our own, “we [humans] do not know how to pray” appropriately. Most Christians would endorse this as true to experience. Prayer is often called a difficult subject, which is hardly solved by repeatedly using only historical formularies. This shows our “weakness.” Second, God “knows what is the mind of the Spirit,” and the Holy Spirit prays within us both individually and corporately. The Spirit prays appropriately because the Spirit knows the will of God. Hence the context of prayer is the interactive

dialogue between the Father and the Holy Spirit, which is ultimately addressed to the Father through the Son. Hence this may correctly be called intra-Trinitarian dialogue. The normal or ideal, but not invariable, practice of Christians, therefore, is to pray to God the Father, as Provider and Sovereign, through Jesus Christ as Mediator and Savior, by (or in the power of) the Holy Spirit, who initiates, inspires, and articulates appropriate prayer, according to the will of God.

The upshot of this, as we expressed it in our Doctrine Commission Report for the Church of England, is that Christians are “graciously caught up in a divine conversation,” in which they have “the experience of being ‘prayed in’.” God is the source and goal of all things (Rom. 11:36). He is the Fatherly Provider, to whom Jesus encouraged us to direct our prayers and worship in the model prayer, “Our Father.” It is also the Holy Spirit who brings to the surface of our minds what has hitherto been unconscious or hidden within our hearts. Thus Paul speaks of “the secrets of the heart” in Rom. 2:12-16; 1 Cor. 4:1-5; 14:20-25. Writers as diverse as Ernst Kasemann, Gerd Theissen, and Frank Macchia all understand “sighs too deep for words” in these verses as glossolalia or tongues-speech. Even if we cannot be fully certain of this exegesis, clearly the Holy Spirit brings order and expression out of human confusion or from barely conscious thought. Here Freud argues that the libido and repressed wishes are at work, although the Christian would add that longings to praise God adequately, and to give him glory through Jesus Christ, also find a place in the hidden secrets of the heart. Kasemann observes, “Christians do not know by virtue of their humanity ... what God really wants of us_____ It comes about once more through auto to pneuma [‘that very Spirit’, NRSV]... directly God-inspired ... heavenly tongues.”

In Rom. 8:15 Paul notes that the believer’s prayer life mirrors that of Jesus, for whom “Abba! Father!” was a hallmark. This was prompted by the Spirit of adoption, who established our filial relationship with God as . . . . . . [page 86 omitted]​
 
Upvote 0

Daniel Marsh

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2015
9,750
2,615
Livingston County, MI, US
✟199,779.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
In the Greek the word for Tongues is better translated as Language. Back in 1611 the definition for tongues was in fact Language. There is a dictionary encyclopedia set in many libraries where that can be verified.



groan

See more synonyms on Thesaurus.com
noun
1.
a low, mournful sound uttered in pain or grief:
the groans of dying soldiers.
2.
a deep, inarticulate sound uttered in derision, disapproval, desire, etc.
3.
a deep grating or creaking sound due to a sudden or continuedoverburdening, as with a great weight:
We heard the groan of the ropes as the crane lowered the heavycargo into the ship's hold.
verb (used without object)
4.
to utter a deep, mournful sound expressive of pain or grief.
5.
to make a deep, inarticulate sound expressive of derision,disapproval, desire, etc.
6.
to make a sound resembling a groan; resound harshly:
The steps of the old house groaned under my weight.
7.
to be overburdened or overloaded.
8.
to suffer greatly or lamentably:
groaning under an intolerable burden.
verb (used with object)
9.
to utter or express with groans.
 
Upvote 0

Biblicist

Full Gospel believer
Mar 27, 2011
7,023
992
Melbourne, Australia
✟51,094.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
In the Greek the word for Tongues is better translated as Language. Back in 1611 the definition for tongues was in fact Language. There is a dictionary encyclopedia set in many libraries where that can be verified.
I would say that you might want to change the library that you attend as the following chart that I compiled a few months back will show you quite the opposite.

The chart shows the following Greek words for 1Cor 14:7-11
  • φωνή phone
  • φθόγγος phthoggos
  • γλῶσσα glossa
  • λόγος logos
  • ἄφωνος aphonos
If you follow the blue column it starts at the top with Tyndale's NT (1526) and you will see that Tyndale used voice in the two key verses of 10 & 11, which was 150 years before the KJV. As you go down the blue column it increases by year where you will notice that language only came into vogue in about 1971. With regard to the Greek word glossa, in verse 9 there is not a single version that has employed language for glossa, though the TNIV (2001) comes close to doing so.

In verse 10 the translations started to play games with the Greek word phone starting in 1971 but the NRSV, the Complete Jewish Bible and the King James 2000 stayed faithful to the Greek by using either sound or voice.

What is really interesting with the chart is that it certainly shows how inconsistent the translation committees have been (except for the NRSV) with a single Greek word across four verses.

1 Cor 14_10 (phone-sounds)_7 & 11.png
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

swordsman1

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2015
3,940
1,064
✟252,547.00
Faith
Christian
This particular 'sub-topic' of the Tongues-Glossolalia thread if handled properly could end up being one of the better discussions that could be found on this forum. When Rom 8:26 is discussed it is often done so in isolation from the rest of this intensely Pneumatic chapter. (The term ‘Pneumatic’ or ‘Pneumatology’ refers to the study of the Person and Ministry of the Holy Spirit).

As a Pentecostal I should be expected to understand how Paul is emphasising the role of the Holy Spirit within the life of the individual Believer, but the more time I spend considering this majestic chapter I really wonder if I have appreciated as much as I think that I do.

In my opinion, for those who have not spent all that much time on this chapter, it would be well worth their time to go through it and maybe spend a few weeks pondering over Paul’s Paterology, his Christology and Pneumatology. In the following verses I have left a few passages blank to concentrate on Paul’s Pneumatology which connects with the primary verses of 26 & 27.

Romans 8 (NIV) - Life Through the Spirit

1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,
2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death.
3 . . .
4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
5 Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires.
6 The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace.
7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so.
8 . . .
9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.
10 But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness.
11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you.
12 . .
13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.
14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God.
15 The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.”
16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children.
17 . . .
18 . . .
19 For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed.
20 . . .
22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time.
23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies.24 . . .
25 . . .
26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans.
27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God.28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.
29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters.
30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.In the following graphic I have marked verse 26 as it connects back to the previous verses with “In the same way…” where other versions will say much the same thing with ‘Likewise…’, ‘And in a like manner…’

The words that are highlighted in yellow are also vitally important and of course the stenagmois found in the circle is where most discussions revolve around. In verse 27 the yellow highlights show how Paul is emphasising the connection where it the Holy Spirit who directly intercedes on our behalf (when we pray in the Spirit being tongues) and that it is the Father who searches our hearts (motives) as the Spirit is praying for us.

rom-8_26-27-geint-jpg.185953
Gordon Fee in God's Empowering Presence (1996) allocated 12 pages to verses 26 & 27 alone so the following is only an excerpt.

God's Empowering Presence: The Holy Spirit in the Letters of Paul, Gordon D. Fee (1996) pgs.575-586 [pp.581-82 shown and all footnotes excluded]

2. The present sentences, in fact, correspond remarkably with what Paul elsewhere calls “praying with/in the Spirit” (1 Cor 14:14-15; Eph 6:18). These correspondences occur at two crucial points: (a) the Spirit is the subject of the verb “interceding,” that is, the Spirit himself is seen as praying from within us and (b) the persons involved do not understand what the Spirit is saying—or not saying, as the case may be.

When we turn to Paul’s other notations about prayer, especially private prayer, besides the prayer reports of various kinds (which describe intelligible praying), we have especially the description of his own prayer life in 1 Cor 14:14-15, that it is of two kinds: praying with his mind and praying with his S/spirit. Although this text is too allusive for us to know for sure what “praying with his mind” meant, the context suggests that it does not mean “prayer without words,” that is, inaudible, but prayer in which he could understand the words that he spoke because they basically generated from within his own mind. As we noted in our discussion of that text, “praying in the Spirit” in that context can refer only to the praying in tongues about which he speaks in vv. 2, 19, and 28—private, articulated but “inarticulate” with regard to his mind (that is, the Spirit prays and the mind itself is unfruitful in this case), and “to himself and to God.” He further affirms that he does this more than all of them (v. 18), and wishes such prayer for all of them (v. 5) precisely because it edifies the one so praying (v. 4)—but not in the assembly, of course (v. 19), because there it does not edify the community as a whole (v. 4).

Even though there is still some mystery here—for all of us—several features about that second form of praying are noteworthy for our present purposes: (a) On the one hand, Paul himself distinguishes between the uninterpreted tongue in private prayer and that which is public and therefore needs interpretation (v. 19). (b) On the other hand, Paul indicates (14:14-15) that private “praying in tongues” requires no interpretation; rather, one’s prayer is “by him/herself” and “to God” (vv. 2, 28); thus in such praying “the mind” does not enter into the prayer as such (v. 13). (c) Such prayer is specifically said to be “by the Spirit” (v. 2); and in vv. 14-15 he says “my S/spirit prays,” i.e., the Spirit prays in tongues through me. (d) In such prayer by the Spirit one speaks “mysteries” to God. (e) That such praying is “vocalized” almost goes without saying; how does one “speak” in a “tongue” and not do so “aloud”? And (f) even though such prayer does not proceed by way of the mind, Paul is nonetheless adamant that he will engage in it (vv. 14- 15) and that those so praying are “edified” (v. 4). Finally, since this is the only form of prayer in Paul’s letters that is specifically said to be 7cv8ujicm (“by the Spirit”), and since Paul wishes that all would so pray (v. 5), it is arguable, although not certain, that this is also what he meant when he urged the Ephesians to “pray ἐν πνεύματι” (6:18, q.v.).

The significant areas of correspondence are (a) that the Spirit prays within the believer, and (b) does so with “words” that are not understood by the person praying. The other possible correspondence, of course, is between “speaking mysteries by the Spirit” in 1 Cor 14:2 and “the Spirit interceding with inarticulate groanings” in our present passage.

Romans 8:26 is nothing to do with the gift of tongues. Only a Pentecostal such as Gordon Fee would dare to make such a contrived connection.

Firstly tongues not mentioned in Rom 8, and would be completely out of place in this context. The context Rom 8 is Christians suffering in the world and wanting to pray but can't, and so the Spirit intercedes for us in "wordless groans". Second it is the Spirit who groans, not believers. The disciples were not 'groaning' at Pentecost. They were words of praise, not groans of suffering. Thirdly the groans are described as 'wordless', whereas tongues contains words (Acts 2:11, 1 Cor 14:19). Fourthly Rom 8:26 applies to all believers, whereas Paul tells us not everyone was given the ability to speak in tongues.

You may find the following commentary, widely recognized as one of the best on Romans, will help you to understand this verse better:

Romans (1998) by Thomas R. Schreiner (Professor of New Testament Interpretation at the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary)

Despite the appeal of seeing a reference to glossolalia, there are decisive reasons for rejecting this interpretation. The term ἀλαλήτοις could mean that which cannot be uttered in words, but it much more likely means "without speech," the absence of any vocalization at all. This seems to be the most natural way of translating a word that negates a word for speech. (2) The word στεναγμοῖς is not necessarily meant literally; that is, the groaning may not be audible. That groaning may be metaphorical is evident from the reference to the groaning of creation in verse 22. Indeed, the groaning in verse 26 must be metaphorical in some sense because the text says that it is the "Spirit" who groans. Nowhere else in the Bible does the Holy Spirit audibly groan, and thus a literal meaning here is not likely, One might reply that the Holy Spirit's groaning is expressed through the groaning of believers (cf. Rom. 8:15-16; 1 Cor. 14:14-15). This is probably the case, but even in that case the groaning is not necessarily audible. The point could be that believers have longings that are so deep that they are inexpressible. (3) The most serious objection to a reference to tongues speaking is that Rom. 8:26-27 refers to all Christians, while tongues speaking is reserved to only a few." There is no evidence in verses 26–27 that any believers are excluded from the assistance of the Spirit described here. Indeed, it would destroy the entire argument of chapter 8 if any believers were outside the pale of what Paul says. Fee thinks this argument is a weak one and says that texts in 1 Cor. 12-14 resolve the difficulty. He apparently refers to the texts that say believers should earnestly desire spiritual gifts (1 Cor. 12:31; 14:1) and all should desire to speak in tongues (14:5). It is mystifying to me how he thinks that this solves the problem. Let us take Paul's words in 1 Cor. 14:5 at face value and assume that Paul desires all Christians to speak in tongues. Even so, Fee's argument can prevail only if all believers did in fact speak in tongues. First Corinthians 12:30 testifies that not all did so. Alternatively, Fee would have to argue that the Spirit's assistance described in Rom. 8:26-27 is available only to those with the gift of glossolalia. But we have already seen that Paul did not exclude any believers in this section, which is designed to buttress their hope.

If the text does not refer to glossolalia, what does Paul have in mind? Some have said that since the groanings are attributed to the Spirit we are entirely oblivious to the Spirit's intercession on our behalf. In other words, the Spirit is constantly interceding for us and we are not conscious of his aid, nor are the groans specified here ours (e.g., Niederwimmer 1964: 262-64; Moo 1991: 562; Fitzmyer 1993c. 518–19). We are fortified with hope because we know that the Spirit interposes for us. It seems more likely to me that the groanings are genuinely those of believers that originate from the Holy Spirit (so Schlatter 1995: 190–91; Murray 1959: 312; O'Brien 1987: 70–73; Stott 1994: 244-45). These groanings are not audible. They are the inexpressible longings that arise in every believer's heart to do and know the will of God. That the groanings arise in the hearts of believers is suggested by verse 27, which says that "God searches the hearts." This is most naturally understood to refer to the hearts of believers. God searches the hearts of believers and finds unutterable longings to conform their lives to the will of God. The Holy Spirit takes these groanings and presents them before God in an articulate form. Even though believers cannot specify their requests to God adequately since they do not know his will sufficiently, the Holy Spirit translates these groanings and conforms them to God's will.

Verse 27 is a significant conclusion to this thought. "The one who searches the hearts" (ὁ δὲ ἐραυνῶν τὰς καρδίας, ho de eraunōn tas kardias) is not the Spirit but God the Father (cf. 1 Chron. 28:9; 29:17; Ps. 7:9; 139:1,23; Jer, 17:10). He is the one who discerns the groanings in the hearts of believers and discerns in them "the mindset of the Spirit" (το φρόνημα του πνεύματος, το phronέinα τοι priεμnatos). The mind-set or intention of the Spirit here refers to the intercession of the Spirit. It is ultimately immaterial whether the succeeding őtt (hoti) is causal (Wilckens 1980: 161) or explicative (Cranfield 1975: 424), for the meaning is essentially the same in either case. The point is that since the Spirit intercedes in accord with God's will, his prayers are always answered. The prayer of believers is not always answered affirmatively since we do not always know what God's will is. Thus Paul prayed to have the thorn in the flesh removed three times and God revealed to him that this was not his will (2 Cor. 12:7–10). By contrast, the Spirit's prayers are always anSwered with a yes, precisely because he always prays in accordance with God's will (so O'Brien 1987: 71-72). The main point of the paragraph therefore emerges. Believers should take tremendous encouragement that the will of God is being fulfilled in their lives despite their weakness and inability to know what to pray for. God's will is not being frustrated because of the weakness of believers. It is being fulfilled because the Spirit is interceding for us and invariably receiving affirmative answers to his pleas. The deepest longings (groanings) of our heart are to accomplish the will of God. The Spirit, Paul teaches, is carrying out these desires via his intercessory ministry. We can see how nicely this fits with the next verses, where Paul teaches that all things work together for good and that God has designed all things so that we are conformed to the image of his Son. No wonder all things are working out for our good-the Spirit is effectively praying for us so that the will of God will be accomplished in our lives.

 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums