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You're correct in recognizing that Hebrews 6 is directed at early Jewish Christians who had gone back to Judaism rather than continuing with Christianity. I've heard some commentators state that since it was directed at Jews that it only applied to Jews. That doesn't make sense to me, as it is the same as saying that a gentile Mithraist who converted to Christianity then renounced Christ to return to Mithraism is somehow exempt from it. It applies to everyone equally.
Based on the answers you've gotten to your questions, there is seemingly an unanswered question, and that is "can a person apostacize from Christianity"? What becomes of a person who does? Can that person ever return? That seems to be a very big and important question. As you have rightly pointed out, Hebrews 6 states in no uncertain terms that a person can in fact apostacize, yet your bible college didn't seem to think enough of it to even mention it. I think that is a glaring omission.
Given the number of replies you've had from users in this forum who emphatically deny that it is possible to apostacize, regardless of what Hebrews 6 clearly states, we have to ask the question of who exactly is the apostate here. Is the apostate the one who reads the scripture for what it is and accepts it regardless of how much that truth may hurt, is it the person who reads the scripture and denies that it means what it says and that based on their own tradition it means something else, or is it the bible college that doesn't so much as mention something from the bible of such importance?
Now if all these people you are surrounded by are so wrong about something so basic, so simple, and so seriously grave, what else are they wrong about?
Trust me, this is leading to the answer to your question.
I believe an apostate is defined as, those who have once been enlightened, tasted the heavenly gift, become partakers of the Holy Spirit, tasted the good word of God and the miracles of the coming age, and then fall away, or turn from their allegiance.You're correct in recognizing that Hebrews 6 is directed at early Jewish Christians who had gone back to Judaism rather than continuing with Christianity. I've heard some commentators state that since it was directed at Jews that it only applied to Jews. That doesn't make sense to me, as it is the same as saying that a gentile Mithraist who converted to Christianity then renounced Christ to return to Mithraism is somehow exempt from it. It applies to everyone equally.
Based on the answers you've gotten to your questions, there is seemingly an unanswered question, and that is "can a person apostacize from Christianity"? What becomes of a person who does? Can that person ever return? That seems to be a very big and important question. As you have rightly pointed out, Hebrews 6 states in no uncertain terms that a person can in fact apostacize, yet your bible college didn't seem to think enough of it to even mention it. I think that is a glaring omission.
Given the number of replies you've had from users in this forum who emphatically deny that it is possible to apostacize, regardless of what Hebrews 6 clearly states, we have to ask the question of who exactly is the apostate here. Is the apostate the one who reads the scripture for what it is and accepts it regardless of how much that truth may hurt, is it the person who reads the scripture and denies that it means what it says and that based on their own tradition it means something else, or is it the bible college that doesn't so much as mention something from the bible of such importance?
Now if all these people you are surrounded by are so wrong about something so basic, so simple, and so seriously grave, what else are they wrong about?
Trust me, this is leading to the answer to your question.
Then go back man.I'd do anything to come back.
Pray then, read your Bible and walk. Don't doubt it. Speak to a pastor about it.I'd do anything to come back.
This shows you did not go to bible college.
sure...haha
...no such thing
lol...of course...it was that tricky Satan playing matchmaker again
lol...very active imagination for sure
I hope that i only suffer in this life for what I have done. If i do somehow come out of this, the Lord will use me to set many free from the bondage i'm experiencing.There is no out from God’s Word in Hebrews 6 once you have been truly born again. Have you experienced a certain fearful looking for of fiery indignation reserved for the advisary? Consider King Saul and what he went through after being disobedient to God’s order. However, when he visited the witch of Endor, Samuel told him that he and as I recall his sons would die the next day but that King Saul would be wherever Samuel was. I honestly don’t think that based on my own born again story that you have gone through this yet. I read your entire story and you will suffer for what you have done in that you intended to commit willful sin. I doubt that anyone on earth can say that they have never sinned since being born again. I can also tell you that I was prepared by Christ to go through the born again experience and it’s not something that you will ever forget or doubt.
Heb.10 Verses 25 to 27
I know that I have been born again. However, I still ended up sinning but not in a continuous willful manner. However, I still have had to suffer that certain fearful looking for of judgement and fiery indignation. After experiencing this for some years, I have been scourged and chastised. When Christ truly sets you free, you will not suffer lust for women or money. Christ builds a hedge around you to protect you from yourself and the world. My advice is to continue in prayer and strive to be obedient to God’s Word. There is a great deal more that I could share with you on this topic but I feel that you are not yet ready. Do you still have to fight lust in your life? Have you ever been set totally free from lust? You can contact me privately via this site.
[25] Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
[26] For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
[27] But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
I want righteousness thru faith. However I can't seem to muster true repentance
But does 1 John 1:9 say that nobody can walk away from His hand?
I hope that i only suffer in this life for what I have done. If i do somehow come out of this, the Lord will use me to set many free from the bondage i'm experiencing.
The epistles' sole purpose is to expand upon the gospels teachings. Jesus said that nobody can take you from His hand. Yes, if you remain in His hand. Everything Jesus promised was conditional. "Remain in me, and..1John is the apostle John's letter.
Jesus is quoted in the gospels.
You are a bible college graduate and should be well aware of the difference and of the verse, which I did not quote in full or give a reference for.
There is still the problem when you go to the Greek. Technically, it cannot be accurately translated to English. There will always be translation variations.It's not a problem if you go to the Greek, upon which my post is based.
Please explain moreJust curious, did you ask God what to do?
I'm short on time, so I can't look it up right now, but there is a story about one of the prophets. His wife was being a continuous harlot but he took her back in the end. It was an example of God with Israel lived out. Obviously it has an impact on the relationship, but it does not have to be over. I have to tell you though, enough is enough. You need to assert your will in alignment with God because you are in a very dangerous place. No more games.
The epistles' sole purpose is to expand upon the gospels teachings. Jesus said that nobody can take you from His hand. Yes, if you remain in His hand. Everything Jesus promised was conditional.
God Bless you. The Love of God abounds in your heart. It is clearly evident.No, that's works.
That would be saying, "my love, grace, salvation, promises are dependant upon YOU doing YOUR bit."
God loves because he is love. He shows grace, mercy, kindness etc because he is all those things. He sent Jesus to die for sinners - godless, wicked, death deserving sinners, Romans 6:23; Romans 5:8.
Read your own story and look at how many times he spoke to you, prompted you - like to put on your motorcycle helmet - gave visions through a friend, and so on. You yourself have testified to being overwhelmed with his love, ignoring it and going off to sin, only for him to speak to you again.
I think you probably ARE in his hand, but have chosen to turn your back on him and say "I need to figure out for myself how to see his face."
Try turning round - which is what repentance is; turning away from sin. Don't look at sin, look at your heavenly Father.
For me and my life, I have experienced to a lesser extent what King Saul experienced but after what seemed like a long time, things a gotten almost back to normal. The actual Scripture I quoted from Hebrews 10 cannot be escaped. However, that Scripture tells us that instead of a simple heartfelt repentance, there is punishment to deal with. As a result of that, I feel that because of The Grace of God The Father, I’m back under a state of Grace. However, you might have to endure more before that happens. Only God knows that.I hope that i only suffer in this life for what I have done. If i do somehow come out of this, the Lord will use me to set many free from the bondage i'm experiencing.
God Bless you. The Love of God abounds in your heart. It is clearly evident.
I believe an apostate is defined as, those who have once been enlightened, tasted the heavenly gift, become partakers of the Holy Spirit, tasted the good word of God and the miracles of the coming age, and then fall away, or turn from their allegiance.
My bible college may have mentioned it, I said that i didn't pay mind if they did.
The sheer number of people claiming it is impossible for a Christian to apostacize is not in and of itself proof that i'm misinterpreting scripture. A great majority of "Christians"... especially in America believe that you can be saved, as long as you Say a pray and ask Jesus into your heart. Even if you live as if you never knew Him.
So, the majority does not define Truth, or my opinion. I could care less what the majority thinks.
Hebrews 6 clearly and plainly states that one can become apostate. What i'm not sure about, and honestly I'm not sure that anyone with intellectual scriptural honesty can be sure about... is if the person described in Hebrews 6 is truly born again, or not.
I truly believe it describes someone who was never truly born again and regenerated. I can give a detailed explanation of why I believe this.
That being said, I do not believe, I was ever truly born again.
So then, the question becomes, is it impossible for me to be restored to repentance?
I have found, despite probably a hundred different times that I have decided to follow Christ for good, that I never have been able to hold fast.. no matter how powerful my resolve. I wonder if Hebrews 6 is simply the explaination of why this is happening.
Dear Curtis,I first want to start by requesting that you'll only answer if you have a solid foundation on bible doctrines. Saying to me, "well that doesn't apply to you because God is love He wouldn't send you to hell; or well you care so you're saved;" will not help at all, nor is biblically sound. I desperately need help, but I need the help to be correct..
I grew up in a Christian home. It was forced on me by my parents, so naturally I rebelled against it in my teenage years. I became an, "atheist." Well one day, when I just turned 18, my football coach offered salvation through Jesus Christ to me. I declined, but due to circumstances set up by God, accepted his offer a week later. I chose to believe in Jesus Christ as savior, but He was not yet Lord. But God did deliver me from the insurmountable situation. I have been told my whole life that I have a Call of God on my life.
God called me to bible college in 2013, and I obeyed Him and went. There, I was heavily trained in Bible Theology, as well as ministry. I received hands-on experience with how to be used by the Holy Ghost as a vessel. I preached to people, was persecuted, had demons manifest around me, laid hands on the sick and saw miraculous healings, ect. (even saw a broken bone snap back into play with a loud, "pop" sound.)
The problem was that It was never truly about the Lord to me. I wanted to marry a girl that went to the college with me. She was an idol to me, and I never truly put God before her. I would only serve God with her in mind as the end result. It was never about the Lord Jesus Christ.
By the end of my time in the bible college in 2015, she decided to be with someone else, whom she is to this day married to. I left the bible college as well as the call of God on my life. I said to God, something to the extent of, "Jesus, God, Holy Spirit, I'm done with you."
I then began sinning intentionally with the specific intent and purpose of silencing the voice of the Holy Ghost in my heart. Since then, I have slept with 30 women, and have fallen into a more sinful state than I ever was previously in. 7 times worse sounds about right.
Since then, I have found myself in a place of absolute despair. I have found no place in my heart for repentance of any sort. I feel no sorrow for my sins, cannot hear from God, continue living a wicked lifestyle.. ect. I'm telling you, I cannot seem to break through this problem. I cry out day and night, but my heart remains wicked. If i'm honest, I only care because I know hell is at stake.
I can almost believe with certainty that nobody currently alive has studied Hebrews 6 more than I have. I have read what seems to be every commentary, every translation, and every interpretation many times over. I probably have, without exaggeration, put 100 hours study into Hebrews 6:4-6. I know the Calvanist, Armenian, and pretty much every other interpretation, as well as the flaws behind them.
The only interpretation that is completely flawed throughout is the one that says, "the writer is describing that it is impossible to fall away and lose your salvation." - the bible does not speak in such complex verbiage. It is made to where the simple minded can understand. I'm no slouch when it comes to the English Language, but trying to read it in the way they describe is completely confusing and asinine.
That being said, I have decided, based on 100 hours of research that this verse means either one of two things.
1. If a person is indulged in the things of God to the extent that I was, and does not backslide, but rather consciously turns their back on the faith.. then it is impossible that they, under any circumstance, ever return to repentance. It's not that God wouldn't forgive them if they did, but rather that their hearts will never be able to be changed, due to their prior exposal to the things of God.
2. If a person falls away after being in the fulness of the things of God, then it is impossible for any man to lead them back to the way of righteousness. (There are numerous scriptures in the NT talking about leading people going astray, back to repentance.) This interpretation says that BECAUSE they are crucifying to themselves the Son of God afresh, it is impossible. They cannot be reasoned with. But if they decide to, then they can come back.
I truly do not know which one of these is correct.
Does anybody have anything that I have missed? Does anybody have insight or a first hand experience related to this? All answered are greatly appreciated.
If you have read enough and just want answer the quick question, then stop here.. but i'm going to further expand on the backstory in this situation, to show you how crazy it really is if you keep reading.
6 months after leaving bible college, I got into a motorcycle accident that almost killed me. Before leaving the house that night, I felt something nudging at me as if insisting me to put on my motorcycle helmet, which i never would normally wear. My life was spared because of that.
In the hospital, I felt what I believed to be the presence of God, flooding the hospital room. It was to the point where even a single thought about God would make me begin weeping uncontrollably. I can't say that I've had such easy access to His presence in my lifetime.
However, in the hospital, I decided that when I recovered, I would go back into the world, once more. And so I did. This time, darker and deeper than before.
A year and a half goes by, and I meet a girl in Rhode Island. The way we met was as if supernatural coincidence set it up. (I'll spare the details but please take my word for it)… If anyone had met a person in this manner, and had the connection with the other person the way that we did, and they didn't know better.. they would think that God matched us up together. But I know what the voice of Jesus is like, and it was not Him orchestrating this meeting. I knew it was Satan.
Anyways, when I flew to see her a month later, we were staying together in a hotel for a week, doing nothing good.. when she went to take a shower. When I was sitting on the bed, I suddenly had a vision: I saw myself, with her. I saw in the vision, her distracting me... and hell was beneath us. I saw a large black arm rise out of hell, grab me, and pull me into hell. The vision was so profound and intense that it made my body physically jump, though I carried on in my life without paying any mind to it.
A year later, her and I broke up. I thought to myself, "well, at least the vision didn't come to pass." But, lo and behold; 6 month later, due to supernatural circumstance, we began speaking again, and ended up getting back together.
Well, my spirit man was constantly eating at me about this.. I could not shake the vision I had of me going to hell a year prior.
So I began to pray, more fervently than I have ever prayed before: With tears and screaming, I said "Jesus, if I'm going to end up fulfilling the vision by being with her, at least make it to where I know I'm on the way to hell without a shadow of a doubt!!"
The next morning I woke up to a text from my most radical Christian friend, who knows nothing about me. the text says the following message that I'm going to copy and paste:
"I felt God told me to anoint myself with oil and then to sit down and listen. I did so, and immediately I heard the word "friend". I continued to listen and set my heart upon Him, when I began to see a vision. It was you, walking behind a girl. I couldn't see her face at first, but only her back. She wore a long dress that followed behind her. She seemed to be young and beautiful. Delicacies like candy and color objects followed close to her.
I saw you and it seemed you were drawn to her, as if you wanted to be with her. You were attracted to her and had a desire to engage with her. You got close and even tried to touch her dress and even smell it; it seemed you would even taste it if you could.
The girl continued to walk with her back to me until I came closer to her front. I then saw her face and it looked like that of a living corpse, even a hideous insect. There was obvious evil and wickedness about her. She then turned to you and grabbed you and killed you in front of me. She left the scene and all I saw was your grave.
I was then taken to another vision in which I saw you with God. In this scene you had refused the woman and were drawn to the Lord. He showed you creation and brought you through mountains and valleys. You were both friends. He brought you before many people and you proclaimed the message of salvation to them. You were enraptured by Him and He with you.
In this scene I have just mentioned, you were consumed with love for God and it did not matter that you were single. Marriage was not even on your mind. You were fulfilled in your relationship with Jesus Christ. "
Terror struck my soul upon reading this text message. I contacted her and told her that we were over, and that I would never speak to her again. I also told her why. She was very understanding.. and it was deeply hurtful to both of us.
I, however, believe that I felt an absolute assurance from the Holy Ghost that I was a child of God at that point. I felt a peace beyond understanding, despite the immense pain, and breaking of my willpower this burdened me with.
The following 3 to 4 nights, I began pleading with God that He would allow me to be with her without it taking me to hell. I told God how much I loved her. I told God, "even if she isn't the best you have for me, I want to be with her. I love her." I talked to her about all of this and she ended up one night, saying a prayer to give her life to the Lord, and began taking it upon herself to read the word for hours on end, and pray. However, I was skeptical that it may have been a false conversion, just to get me back.
While I was seeking the answer.. I BELIEVE to have had the Lord say this to me... "I will allow you to marry her without it taking you to hell. However, if you do, you will never be able to fulfill the calling I have place upon your life."
I chose to marry her. It felt like I was doing the wrong thing, but I went through with it.
Now you're pretty much caught up to where I'm currently at.
What are your thoughts? Does Hebrews 6 describe the reason why I keep falling back into darkness, and just have not been able to truly repent?
Please, any advice is helpful. God bless.
Can you please find out the pastor or mans name? That sounds exactly like my storyDear Curtis,
Your story reminds me of Samson. He missed Gods calling for the same reason....a woman. So that he accepted as you must.
I have no experience in your choices nor have counseled anyone there. But your post reminds me of a pastor who did. He was counseling a man who had been a fruitful Christian who had at a point chosen gross sin and fell away. He had come to the pastor to repent and return.
Now this was a very wise pastor who had long since realized that claiming forgiveness is not recognized in Heaven. He did not think one can find a verse and march before the Throne saying God has to do this or that.
So the man came week after week seeking forgiveness. God did not grant it. (He did not know he was forgiven)
So the pastor wisely sought God about it and God told him the man was very sorry what his choices had done to his life and his eternal future was not looking rosy. The man was sorry about the consequences but not sorry about the sin. So God was not forgiving him as he just wanted out of the just punishment.
When the man heard this, he responded and prayed differently to which God responded and gloriously forgave and restored him.
He did not return to his sin (really bad) but is a church leader now to
this day.
Does this story ring any bells with you? ( I cannot know only offer this as an idea.)
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