How can I be reasonably sure God still exists?

[Gumph]

"babe" fully accepts their need to receive from God, they will find a way to get to him, a more self-reliant, "sophisticated" person will seek to inderstand God on their own terms, not his.

You need to "come and see".

Sorry, but I find the biblical quotes difficult to understand. Even your above message is not clear to me. I assume a "babe" is a very young person. Surely them fully accepting anything, should not be seen as a good example of how to make decisions?

 

[Gumph]

aiki, same problem I'm afraid. I appreciate that much of what you quote is obvious to you, but it is painfully unclear to me.

They all seem to be giving reasons why people don't see God. It doesn't seem to give any reasons as to why he doesn't make it obvious. It might indicate that its there, but we are choosing not to see it perhaps? I see plenty of things every day which I would prefer not to, that doesn't mean that I can't see them.

 

[Receiver]

Sorry, but I find the biblical quotes difficult to understand.

Indeed, the easy way is to just do as Jesus says and as I keep counselling, "come and see", once you get a glimpse of the destination, the directions make more sense.

Even your above message is not clear to me. I assume a "babe" is a very young person. Surely them fully accepting anything, should not be seen as a good example of how to make decisions?

"Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein." Mark 10:15

A child is not full of it's own importance, it has a "show me" attitude.

 

[Gumph]

A child is not full of it's own importance, it has a "show me" attitude.

Ummm, this whole thread has been about asking for him to be shown. I'm starting to draw the conclusion that its simply a matter of what level of "evidence" one is prepared to accept. Some are happy with a hunch, others need more.

The level at which the "evidence" has been set worries me though, because far more people fail to believe in Jesus than those that do believe. This could mean one of several things: The process or the designer is flawed - I doubt Christians would accept this; Its an elitist religion for a chosen few; or ...?

 

[faroukfarouk]

"But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him." (Hebrews 11.6)

 

[Receiver]

Ummm, this whole thread has been about asking for him to be shown. I'm starting to draw the conclusion that its simply a matter of what level of "evidence" one is prepared to accept. Some are happy with a hunch, others need more.

I have repeatedly given you the answer Jesus gave, "come and see".
You cannot "see" just by words on a screen that play into your own limited conception of God's love, power etc.

"For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power." (1 Cor. 4:20)

If you choose not to come then you make the same error as Adam & Eve to me "master (god / lord) of their own destiny" without relying on God, relying on your own assessment of "good and evil" and your own independent power to attain to good. Like them you will immediately become aware of your own nakedness and hide yourself from the light of God who calls to you. The real reason many people stay away from what God is actually doing is that thy know it means change, and they don't want to change, the thought of laying aside their own chosen ways fills them with "trepidation".
If they could see, or just get a glimpse of what happens when you do, it makes it simple & obvious and the only trepidation is not doing so!

 

[Gumph]

"But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him." (Hebrews 11.6)

I realise you are attempting to help, but I'm sorry, bible quotes alone don't help me. Even if I understand all the words, they might be out of context, or I might be interpreting the passage differently to you. An explanation with the quote is required please.

 

[Gumph]

I have repeatedly given you the answer Jesus gave, "come and see".
You cannot "see" just by words on a screen that play into your own limited conception of God's love, power etc.

And I have turned down your offer and agree that that is a possible fault of mine. I simply can't bear the thought of another religious meeting with strangers and yes, you have been (possibly unfairly) prejudged based on my experiences with other religious groups.

Having given this some more thought, I suppose it boils down to this. Why does God require me to get his message via strangers?

When asked what I could expect there, your answer was a bit vague. It pretty much boiled down to being convinced by the actions and discussions of the group. Its a group of humans. I'm sure they are mainly very nice, but why does this message have to be conveyed through humans with all our faults? There has to be a betty way, surely?

If you choose not to come then you make the same error as Adam & Eve

Nope, they had a direct experience with God. You are asking me to meet up with people. They had their information straight from the source. I am being asked to deal through intermediaries.

The real reason many people stay away from what God is actually doing is that thy know it means change, and they don't want to change, the thought of laying aside their own chosen ways fills them with "trepidation".

Could we not say the same about many "Christians" today? They grow up in a Christian family or culture and stay there through fear of change?

I agree, change is scary, which is why I expect sound reasoning before making change, rather than hope.

If they could see, or just get a glimpse of what happens when you do, it makes it simple & obvious and the only trepidation is not doing so!

I agree. It would be lovely if he presented us with glimpse, or better yet, evidence.

 

[drich0150]

I have read all 11 pages, but has anyone suggested you simple Ask Seek Knock as outlined in Luke 11? After all Christ Showed Thomas exactly what He needed to see, so why would you be treated any differently?

 

[aiki]

aiki, same problem I'm afraid. I appreciate that much of what you quote is obvious to you, but it is painfully unclear to me.

I felt the same way about Algebra when I first encountered it as a young teenager. But as I studied Algebra it became clearer, less of a mystery, to me. Have you applied yourself to careful study of the biblical and philosophical bases for the Christian faith? If not, why wouldn't it then be "painfully unclear" to you? Is there some good, objective reason why the Christian faith should not require such investigation and study?

They all seem to be giving reasons why people don't see God. It doesn't seem to give any reasons as to why he doesn't make it obvious.

Oh, I don't know...They seem to be saying that to those who really want to find God, He is not as obscure as you make Him out to be.

It might indicate that its there, but we are choosing not to see it perhaps? I see plenty of things every day which I would prefer not to, that doesn't mean that I can't see them.

Is there some good reason why this should hold true for everything? Must everything you wish not to see be nonetheless evident to you?

Selah.

 

[Gumph]

I have read all 11 pages, but has anyone suggested you simple Ask Seek Knock as outlined in Luke 11? After all Christ Showed Thomas exactly what He needed to see, so why would you be treated any differently?

How do I "ask"?
How do I "seek"?
How do I "knock"?

Practical, implementable instructions, in modern English. Dumb it down as much as you can please.

 

[Gumph]

I felt the same way about Algebra when I first encountered it as a young teenager. But as I studied Algebra it became clearer, less of a mystery, to me. Have you applied yourself to careful study of the biblical and philosophical bases for the Christian faith? If not, why wouldn't it then be "painfully unclear" to you? Is there some good, objective reason why the Christian faith should not require such investigation and study?

Well, I went to a Christian school, so there was some religious education, but in fairness I wouldn't say I applied myself to careful study. You do bring up a good analogy.

I think the biggest difference is in algebra, I could see practical examples early on, of how it worked in the real world. For example I could use it as a tool to solve maths problems involving money. I could recreate the equations on the page with physical tests using the cash in my wallet.

Then of course there is the not too small matter of algebra being disposed of by most people as they leave school with virtually no consequence. Christianity however claims that there are serious consequences from disposing it. IMO, something with such serious consequences should not require intensive study. It should be made obvious and tangible to everyone, not just those with the ability to study it.

Oh, I don't know...They seem to be saying that to those who really want to find God, He is not as obscure as you make Him out to be.

I still don't understand why anyone in their right mind would not want to really find an almighty powerful God who we will eventually be forced to meet anyway at death.

What makes you think someone else wants it less than you do?

Is there some good reason why this should hold true for everything? Must everything you wish not to see be nonetheless evident to you?

Sorry, you lost me here.

 

[drich0150]

How do I "ask"?
How do I "seek"?
How do I "knock"?

Practical, implementable instructions, in modern English. Dumb it down as much as you can please.

We Ask in Prayer. "God Please Send the Holy Spirit that I may see and Hear you more clearly. Open my eye so i may see, open my ears that i may hear, do what ever it takes to soften my heart to accept what my eyes and ears tell me you are saying."

We Seek, through questions we ask in places like this, Church and in Bible studies.

We knock like the persistant neighbor by repeating these processes till we get what we have been asking, and seeking after. (Which is the Holy Spirit.)

 

[aiki]

Well, I went to a Christian school, so there was some religious education, but in fairness I wouldn't say I applied myself to careful study. You do bring up a good analogy.

I think the biggest difference is in algebra, I could see practical examples early on, of how it worked in the real world. For example I could use it as a tool to solve maths problems involving money. I could recreate the equations on the page with physical tests using the cash in my wallet.

Then of course there is the not too small matter of algebra being disposed of by most people as they leave school with virtually no consequence. Christianity however claims that there are serious consequences from disposing it. IMO, something with such serious consequences should not require intensive study. It should be made obvious and tangible to everyone, not just those with the ability to study it.

I only used the Algebra analogy to highlight one particular point about study. I did not intend for it to be stretched any farther than the point I made. As you have noted, the analogy doesn't really sustain a broader parallel, which is why I didn't offer it as such.

It is not Christianity the religion - or its adherents - that levies punishment for living in defiance of God, but God Himself. God is the One who will judge and punish the unrepentant wicked, not the Christian faith or Christian believers.

I still don't understand why anyone in their right mind would not want to really find an almighty powerful God who we will eventually be forced to meet anyway at death.

What makes you think someone else wants it less than you do?

I have met many people who do not want God. As they have explained to me, He cramps their style; He interferes with what they want to do; He makes them feel guilty for the bad things they do; He demands their worship and a holy, pure life. Truly acknowledging God always means submission to Him and conformity to His will and way. A great many people simply don't want to submit and conform. They are their own god, the captain of their own fate; their life is their own and they have no intention of thinking or living otherwise. They like very much living without God and they are determined not to live otherwise.

Selah.

 

[oi_antz]

How do I "ask"?
How do I "seek"?
How do I "knock"?

Practical, implementable instructions, in modern English. Dumb it down as much as you can please.

I have not actually followed this conversation, but I did notice this question, and I have been following your thoughts on the other thread. I think you are asking this because you haven't done it before, and perhaps you haven't really known anyone that does this, and that results in some confusion or uncertainty about what exactly this is.

I am looking at why, if someone can assume that God is omnipresent and can always be approached, would they ask these questions. What I can see is that such a person doesn't really believe that God is present and can be approached. There could be a few reasons for that belief (the belief that God is not present), and those reasons will determine how easily that obstacle can be removed. Then once someone does sufficiently believe that He is present and can be approached, I think these questions will not really exist for that person any more because they will have already asked, sought and found. I don't know if this will be helpful, it doesn't seem to have come out in words the way I had pictured it in mind.

 

[AvgJoe]

Most of the laymen discussions I've entered into about whether God exists tend to focus on how the world was created and whether Jesus existed. The arguments seem to be vague and go round and round without much resolution, mainly because of the time that has lapsed since those events.

I would like to know how (as a current agnostic) I could explore and perhaps be convinced that there is a God who is currently present in our every day lives?

Perhaps put another way: If I woke up with amnesia tomorrow, how could you try and convince me that God still exists?

How do we know that God exists? And more specifically, how do we know that the God of Christianity, as proclaimed in the Bible, exists and is the real, true, one and only God? The simple answer is, because the Bible says so. BUT, that begs the question, how do we know that the Bible is true?!

If the Bible is true, Christianity is true and the God of Christianity is the one, true God, and by extension, all other religions are false because they all have one, or more, beliefs that contradict the essential truths the Bible.

The Bible was written over a period of 1,600 years, by 40 God chosen men, who lived on 3 separate continents and they all wrote about the same thing, the Gospel of Jesus Christ. There were no mail delivery trucks, no drop ship planes, no Federal Express, no UPS and no email, yet when all of the writings were put together they present one unified message. The Bible is truly the inspired Word of God.

If the Bible is true, Christianity is true. How much research have you done on proving the validity of the Bible? Following are some topics and links I hope you will look into, concerning the validity of the Bible. Please lay your doubt aside and proceed with an open mind, and heart, and see what the evidence has to say.

An excellent ebook on the subject: In Defense of the Bible's Inspiration

Proof of Textual Evidence
Old Testament: The Dead Sea Scrolls and Biblical Integrity
New Testament: http://www.carm.org/questions/textualevidence.htm
More on the Bible: http://www.carm.org/bible.htm

Proof of People Living at the Time of Christ
http://www.carm.org/questions/extrabiblical_accounts.htm
http://www.carm.org/questions/Josephus.htm

Proof of Archaeology
http://www.christiananswers.net/archaeology/home.html#general
http://www.biblicalarcheology.net/
http://www.carm.org/questions/evidence_archaeological.htm

Proof of Science
Statements Consistent With Paleontology
Statements Consistent With Astronomy
Statements Consistent With Meteorology
Statements Consistent With Biology
Statements Consistent With Anthropology
Statements Consistent With Hydrology
Statements Consistent With Geology
http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/science.shtml
http://www.carm.org/bible/ms_science.htm
http://www.eternal-productions.org/101science.html

Proof of Prophecy (Messanic & dealing with nations)
http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/m_prophecies.shtml
http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/fulfill.shtml
http://www.carm.org/bible/prophecy.htm
http://prophecyrevealed.com/friendbook9thPrinting.pdf (awesome eBook)
http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/b_proof.shtml

Biblical prophecy is one of the strongest proofs for me. No one, but God, can tell you what's going to happen, before it happens, with 100% accuracy. Two, of the many, incredible prophecies of the Bible is the foretelling about what would happen to the city of Tyre~~~> http://apologeticspress.org/apcontent.aspx?category=13&article=1790 and the Rebirth of the nation of Israel in 1948~~~> http://www.grantjeffrey.com/pdf/JeffBIBLE-EzekVision2.pdf.

If the Bible is true, Christianity is true. In Christianity, faith is required but it does not have to be a blind faith.