M
Munising
Guest
I was asked a series of questions earlier, regarding my conversion from atheism. Below are my answers and my conclusion:
Why say "turn to God" when it would be less misleading to say "I came to believe that God exists"?It may be rude to answer "obviously" but, obviously.When you say "turn to God" do you believe that a god exists?
Precisely what happened (or what did you observe/experience) that caused you to go from unbelief to belief?I went from a state of unbelief to a state of belief in an instant. I'm not sure in whose interests it would be for some external third party to grant me a faith in God, and there was definitely no self-interest at work as I was perfectly happy as a non-believer, just as you are. Although, to be fair, I did hang around Christian forums just as you do, possibly waiting for that incontrovertible evidence which never came.Please explain what you personally experienced when "He granted" you faith. How would you know it was God who granted you faith?
Did you not have the ability to believe when you were an atheist? I am an atheist and I have the ability and capacity to believe a god exists. What's missing are demonstrations of omniscience and omnipotence that are undeniable the works of a supreme being.No, not asked to believe; given the ability to believe.When you say "called" do you mean to believe a god exists?
Given the god which Christians have posited - one that can do anything and knows everything - myself and other atheists would need to see undeniable and objectively measurable acts of a god's omniscience and omnipotence to believe that such a god exists.Wrong. No man will ever reach the conclusion that God exists and come to love him through intellectual strivings alone. Some may come to the conclusion that A "god" exists when comparing the two scenarios regarding the formation of the universe - that nothing times nothing equals everything, or that all was created. However, this isn't belief in a specifically Christian God.An atheist doesn't come to believe a god exists through his heart. He does it through his head - through evidence which when presented is compelling enough to warrant a belief that a god exists.
What would have happened if when you were an atheist, you chose to believe that a god existed?No, I don't mean making a choice. As an atheist I felt unable to choose God, no matter how hard I might have tried. That's where you are now. I mean I instantly believed in something which before I had been unable to believe in. No choice involved.When you say "turn to God" do you mean make the choice to choose to believe that a god exists?
If we both look at the sky and see the same thing, then why do you feel compelled to call it something other than what I call it? What real thing in this world is it you're calling "God"? The sky? Ants? All things in nature?Any thing at all. You look at the night sky and see the sky; I look and I see God's work. You look at an ant and see an ant; I see as miracle of engineering and the work of God. You see DNA and thing "that's a pretty impressive result from a series of happy accidents", where I see a plan.And what evidence is this?
If the god on the Harley demonstrated through acts of omniscience and omnipotence that he was a supreme being, then I would believe.No atheist is entirely neutral. If God turned up on a Harley with a host of angels your immediate first thought would not be "Now I believe". It would more likely be your last thought following a series of analytical judgements, the first thought being "It can't be". Presupposition.Atheists don't have presuppositions. They merely look at the evidence which is presented to them and come to a responsible and honest conclusion if the evidence warrants a belief that a god exists.
If the evidence you require is different from the evidence I require, then this thread is the type of place for you to ask why I have a different standard of evidence.They are all evidence to a believer. They are not proof however. So many people who claim to be intelligent debaters here don't know the difference between evidence and proof. Evidence is that which leads to a likely conclusion based upon presuppositions. You - "This hip bone is evidence of a transitional being between two known evolutionary states of existence"; me - "This hip bone is from a different animal". See what I mean? My conclusion is God, yours is "I dunno, but it can't be God".Small creatures are evidence of small creatures. The magnificent cosmos is evidence of the magnificent cosmos. Neither are evidence that a god exists.
When you say "God's hand at work", what real thing in this universe are you calling "God's hand at work"? It must be something, as when you and I see the ant, we both see the same thing. You just call it something different from what I call it.True. I'm talking about the value we each might assign to that ant and our understanding of how it came to be. You may see it as the pinnacle of ant-based evolution. The ant as we know it has been around for millions of years. I might see it as a wonderful example of God's hand at work.An ant is an ant regardless if humans believe a god exists.
That response has, "I'm hurt because you called me arrogant" written all over it. But most likely, you are wrong. I say that you don't have sufficient basis for holding the belief which you hold.I think the pinnacle of human arrogance lies in those who say "We don't know the answer, but yours must be wrong".Interesting that Christians are so certain about things like the cosmos, biology, the history of the universe, etc., yet scientists aren't sure about these things. And it's very ironic that these "know-it-all" Christians are telling atheists they must "humble" themselves in front of the lord. Atheists already admit they don't know. The Christians who claim to know this much are the pinnacle of human arrogance.
I'll be waiting. Please send him my way. If he's real, he'll show up.And I wouldn't dream of telling an atheist to humble himself in front of the Lord; if God wants you he'll come and get you just as he did me.
Upvote
0