How can baptism be required for salvation?

[BNR32FAN]

Are you saying that very few Church congratulations believe that baptism is the point of salvation? You are correct: there are very few congregations that teach the Biblical truth on this topic.

According to Scripture, water immersion (baptism ) is the point at which the Holy Spirit takes action to remove our sins, unite us with Christ, come to live in our heart, and resurrect our souls to life in Christ.

Personally I think this can still take place without a drop of water in sight.

 

[Doug Brents]

If one was not already saved, the water just got them all wet!

Not at all. Rom 6:1-11 and Col 2:11-14 both say that the Holy Spirit meets us in the water of baptism and there removes our sin. Acts 2:38 says that when we repent and are baptized our sins are forgiven and we receive the Holy Spirit.

 

[Doug Brents]

Those verses could be referring to a baptism of the Spirit. Cornelius and his household experienced a baptism of the spirit before they were baptized in water.

Not true. There is only one New Testament baptism (Eph 4:5-6). And it can be demonstrated that that baptism is in water by looking all through Acts (for instance the Ethiopian Eunuch).

 

[BNR32FAN]

Not at all. Rom 6:1-11 and Col 2:11-14 both say that the Holy Spirit meets us in the water of baptism and there removes our sin. Acts 2:38 says that when we repent and are baptized our sins are forgiven and we receive the Holy Spirit.

Those verses could be referring to a baptism of the Spirit instead of water baptism. There are several different mentions of baptism. There’s a baptism of water, Spirit, fire, repentance, and death.

 

[Doug Brents]

Personally I think this can still take place without a drop of water in sight.

If that were true, that would make Scripture to lie or contradict itself. And I believe that there is no contradiction in Scripture.

 

[Albion]

It is not the “public display” that saves.

I agree.

It is obedience to the Living God.

That's an interesting theory, made especially interesting since you just were arguing that baptism doesn't accomplish anything. How could going through with such a ritual then possibly show any obedience or honor to God?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Not true. There is only one New Testament baptism (Eph 4:5-6). And it can be demonstrated that that baptism is in water by looking all through Acts (for instance the Ethiopian Eunuch).

In Acts 19 Paul had to baptize 12 men a second time because they had received the baptism of repentance from JTB they had not received the Holy Spirit so Paul baptized them in the name of Jesus then they received the Holy Spirit. Cornelius and his household received the Holy Spirit before they were baptized in water.

 

[BNR32FAN]

If that were true, that would make Scripture to lie or contradict itself. And I believe that there is no contradiction in Scripture.

Again your disregarding what took place in Cornelius’ house. That also is written in scripture brother.

 

[BNR32FAN]

If that were true, that would make Scripture to lie or contradict itself. And I believe that there is no contradiction in Scripture.

The scriptures do not say that a person will not receive the Holy Spirit until they are baptized in water.

 

[Doug Brents]

That's an interesting theory, made especially interesting since you just were arguing that baptism doesn't accomplish anything. How could going through with such a ritual then possibly show any obedience or honor to God?

I didn’t say that baptism doesn’t accomplish anything ever. I said without belief in Christ it doesn’t accomplish anything.

God, through the Apostles on Pentecost, commanded that those who repent and are baptized will be forgiven of their sins and receive the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38). Jesus said that those who believe the Apostles’ teaching and are baptized will be saved (Mark 16:16).

 

[Albion]

Are you saying that very few Church congratulations believe that baptism is the point of salvation? You are correct: there are very few congregations that teach the Biblical truth on this topic.

Your opinion about the testimony of Scripture aside, if Baptism just gets you wet--as I've been told a thousand times by skeptics--then it cannot possibly be important to do for any reason.

According to Scripture, water immersion (baptism ) is the point at which the Holy Spirit takes action to remove our sins,...

Actually, there is not a single verse in Scripture that refers to baptism by immersion.

 

[Doug Brents]

Again your disregarding what took place in Cornelius’ house. That also is written in scripture brother.

I understand what you are saying, and when you read chapter 11 of Acts, the reason for what happened there becomes clear. Peter explained what happened to the other Apostles and they realized that the Holy Spirit coming in the GENTILES was to show the Jews that He had accepted them into the. Hutch as well as the Jews. It did not say anything about their salvation. They were still baptized for the forgiveness of their sins.

 

[Albion]

Not at all. It make a great deal of difference is you believe in Christ.

So faith or believing is NOT all that matters (?), leaving baptism to be just a gesture done in order to show the person whom God already knows is His by faith that this person is being obedient in going through with an otherwise meaningless ceremony (or something like that)?

 

[Doug Brents]

The scriptures do not say that a person will not receive the Holy Spirit until they are baptized in water.

Acts 2:38 makes reception of the Holy Spirit a result of the condition of being baptized.
No baptism, no Spirit.

 

[Doug Brents]

Your opinion about the testimony of Scripture aside, if Baptism just gets you wet--as I've been told a thousand times by skeptics--then it cannot possibly be important to do for any reason.


Actually, there is not a single verse in Scripture that refers to baptism by immersion.

That is the meaning of the Greek word: to immerse. The translators of the KJV had the practice of sprinkling, so instead of exposing their false practices, they took the Greek, made it into a new English word (transliteration) and defined the new word to what they wanted it to mean.

 

[Doug Brents]

So faith or believing is NOT all that matters (?), leaving baptism to be just a gesture done in order to show the person whom God already knows is His by faith that this person is being obedient in going through with an otherwise meaningless ceremony (or something like that)?

Faith requires action (James 2:26). Without action, faith is dead and worthless; it can do nothing (does not save).

 

[Albion]

Acts 2:38 makes reception of the Holy Spirit a result of the condition of being baptized.
No baptism, no Spirit.

Which would mean rejecting the idea which was advanced earlier to the effect that having a conversion experience is what matters and baptism, therefore, isn't really necessary for the reception of the Holy Ghost or anything else. Is that right?

 

[Albion]

Faith requires action (James 2:26). Without action, faith is dead and worthless; it can do nothing (does not save).

I think we all know this ^, but it's not a reference to baptism.

 

[Albion]

That is the meaning of the Greek word: to immerse.

That is one meaning. The same word also means to wash or dip or several other such actions. It doesn't necessarily refer to immersion.

The translators of the KJV had the practice of sprinkling,...

I doubt it, since sprinkling is not the prescribed method of baptism in their church. Wasn't then; and isn't now.

 

[Doug Brents]

Which would mean rejecting the idea which was advanced earlier to the effect that having a conversion experience is what matters and baptism, therefore, isn't really necessary for the reception of the Holy Ghost or anything else. Is that right?

That is very confusing.
Let me state as clearly as I can my understanding of what Scripture says about salvation.
1. Hear the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
2. Believe the Gospel.
3. Repent of sins (turn away from sin toward Christ).
3. Confess Jesus as Lord publicly.
4. Be baptized.
Salvation (forgiveness of sins and resurrection with Christ) occurs at this point.
From this point forward, daily repent (turn back to God as Satan continually try’s to turn us back to himself), and study to grow deeper roots in Christ so Satan cannot uproot us or weeds choral is out (parable of the seeds) and we lose our salvation.