How can anyone justify not believing in capital punishment?

[Hammster]

So let me get this straight. A man orchestrates the ruthless murder of tens of thousands of innocent people. And if he is captured, he should not be put to death because of the possiblility he might "convert".

That truly is one ridiculous argument against capital punishment. Go tell all the families of his victims that. And what about the families of all the victims that are NOT Christian? They wouldn't care less if he "converted" or not.

You obviously have no idea how offensive your sin is to God.

 

[Hammster]

Capital Punishment is sub-christian, it is not now nor has it ever been an acceptable way to deal with society's failures.

It was pre-law. God ordained it. See Gen 9.

 

[WilliamB]

I was ecstatic when I heard of that inhumane monster, Osama Bin Laden, was killed by U.S. forces-finally!

And then I think of despicable bleeding heart liberals and their namby pamby fairlyland beliefs of never killing anyone. Could you imagine capturing such a monster as Bin Laden and just letting him live in jail for the rest of his life? There is no other punishment suitable for him that death. The same with serial killers and other terrorists and such.

How can any reasonable person not agree with punishing people like Osama with death?

I feel a tremendous amount of pity for you, just as I do for OBL. It's really heart breaking that a child of God would still be living under the old covenant. Capital punishment is absolutely against the teachings of Christ, you should know that but just in case, now you know.

As for OBL becoming a Christian. All things are possible through Christ. While I try to respect the opinions of others, you sir....have filled your heart with hate and slander God's great name with your ignorant, non-biblical comments. That makes you no better than OBL, except the weapon you use to kill and destroy is your tongue.

Do not judge so that you will not be judged. For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.

I forgive you for such ignorance just as I forgive OBL for his deeds. May God have mercy on his soul. I hope that God is working on your heart to let His love in. I will pray for you. God Bless!

The one who says he is in the Light and yet hates his brother is in the darkness until now. 10 The one who loves his brother abides in the Light and there is no cause for stumbling in him.
11 But the one who hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness, and does not know where he is going because the darkness has blinded his eyes. 1 John 2:9-11

 

[Hammster]

I feel a tremendous amount of pity for you, just as I do for OBL. It's really heart breaking that a child of God would still be living under the old covenant. Capital punishment is absolutely against the teachings of Christ, you should know that but just in case, now you know.

Actually, capital punishment isn't against the teachings of Christ. Now you know.

As for OBL becoming a Christian. All things are possible through Christ. While I try to respect the opinions of others, you sir....have filled your heart with hate and slander God's great name with your ignorant, non-biblical comments. That makes you no better than OBL, except the weapon you use to kill and destroy is your tongue.

None of are better than OBL. At least not better enough where it makes a difference.

Do not judge so that you will not be judged. For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.

I forgive you for such ignorance just as I forgive OBL for his deeds. May God have mercy on his soul. I hope that God is working on your heart to let His love in. I will pray for you. God Bless!

a bit arrogant, aren't you? How are you in a position to offer forgiveness?

The one who says he is in the Light and yet hates his brother is in the darkness until now. 10 The one who loves his brother abides in the Light and there is no cause for stumbling in him.
11 But the one who hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness, and does not know where he is going because the darkness has blinded his eyes. 1 John 2:9-11

This is talking about Christian loving Christians. Not all are our brothers.

 

[WilliamB]

Originally Posted by WilliamB

I feel a tremendous amount of pity for you, just as I do for OBL. It's really heart breaking that a child of God would still be living under the old covenant. Capital punishment is absolutely against the teachings of Christ, you should know that but just in case, now you know.
​

Actually, capital punishment isn't against the teachings of Christ. Now you know.

Sigh...

As for OBL becoming a Christian. All things are possible through Christ. While I try to respect the opinions of others, you sir....have filled your heart with hate and slander God's great name with your ignorant, non-biblical comments. That makes you no better than OBL, except the weapon you use to kill and destroy is your tongue.

None of are better than OBL. At least not better enough where it makes a difference.

Fair enough, but you get my meaning.

Do not judge so that you will not be judged. For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.

I forgive you for such ignorance just as I forgive OBL for his deeds. May God have mercy on his soul. I hope that God is working on your heart to let His love in. I will pray for you. God Bless!

a bit arrogant, aren't you? How are you in a position to offer forgiveness?

Because I'm in a position to be offended by someone else's comments. Thus, instead of harboring hatred or anger in my heart, I choose to forgive.

The one who says he is in the Light and yet hates his brother is in the darkness until now. 10 The one who loves his brother abides in the Light and there is no cause for stumbling in him.
11 But the one who hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness, and does not know where he is going because the darkness has blinded his eyes. 1 John 2:9-11

This is talking about Christian loving Christians. Not all are our brothers.

Really, that's strange given there were no "Christians" until sometime after Christ died. Therefore, he'd actually be talking to Jews. Your brother is any stranger. Do you check someone's church membership before you show them love? Do they need to be wearing a cross? If you see someone in need, do you ask if they're a Christian first and if not, refuse to help? When He said love your neighbor as you love yourself did He mean just the people that live next door to you? Hmmm...

 

[sealacamp]

Well none of us are living under the law, however Christ Himself said.

I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not even the smallest detail of God’s law will disappear until its purpose is achieved.

Now do you suppose that would indicate that those guilty of murder should be allowed to go unpunished? Should we just ignore what they have done and not fulfill what God has clearly indicated we should do? Should we just let the blood of the innocent cry out from the earth and ignore it?

Sealacamp

 

[WilliamB]

Well none of us are living under the law, however Christ Himself said.

I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not even the smallest detail of God’s law will disappear until its purpose is achieved.
​

Now do you suppose that would indicate that those guilty of murder should be allowed to go unpunished? Should we just ignore what they have done and not fulfill what God has clearly indicated we should do? Should we just let the blood of the innocent cry out from the earth and ignore it?

Sealacamp

You can not live under two covenants. You're either living under the old covenant or living under the new but you can not live under both.

So you either believe in eye for an eye, under the old covenant and choose to reject the peace of Jesus Christ. Or, you live by the new covenant where you let he who is without sin, cast the first stone. It's really simple but it is your choice.

 

[Celtic D]

What about "Thou shalt not kill" - even a mere liberal like myself is aware of that quote in the Bible, and after all the Bible is a literal document isn't it?

 

[Hammster]

What about "Thou shalt not kill" - even a mere liberal like myself is aware of that quote in the Bible, and after all the Bible is a literal document isn't it?

Don't murder.

 

[sealacamp]

What about "Thou shalt not kill" - even a mere liberal like myself is aware of that quote in the Bible, and after all the Bible is a literal document isn't it?

Lovely the way the truth gets twisted. Now why don't you all answer the question, should the guilty go unpunished? Is the punishment that God calls for not the correct one?

If you can't answer these questions then you obviously want to avoid the truth.

Sealacamp

 

[WilliamB]

Lovely the way the truth gets twisted. Now why don't you all answer the question, should the guilty go unpunished? Is the punishment that God calls for not the correct one?

If you can't answer these questions then you obviously want to avoid the truth.

Sealacamp

Like I said, you choose a covenant. I for one am rolling with Jesus in the New Covenant and that makes the judgement and or punishment for crimes not my responsibility. If they have broken God's laws, it is up to God to judge and punish them. If they have broken man's laws, then it is up to the courts of who's ever law they broke, to do the same.

In addition, did you personally witness OBL commit acts of terror? If you didn't see it, you are bearing false witness. Just because the news told you that, doesn't mean you are an eye witness. So should they go unpunished? I'm not God and I'm not the courts. It's not up to me to decide. I forgive him.

You choose to act in revenge based off the Old Covenant or in love and forgiveness of the New Covenant. What you choose is between you and God.

 

[Sketcher]

I believe capital punishment is right, and I'm happy for the victory we enjoyed when the SEALs got him. But I'm not elated over his death. I accept it as the worst of a short list of good options.

You can not live under two covenants. You're either living under the old covenant or living under the new but you can not live under both.

So you either believe in eye for an eye, under the old covenant and choose to reject the peace of Jesus Christ. Or, you live by the new covenant where you let he who is without sin, cast the first stone. It's really simple but it is your choice.

Capital punishment didn't cease to be acceptable with the New Covenant, as Romans 13:4 makes clear. It's not the place of the church itself to go around executing people, but it's good and right for governments to do that. They lock 'em up, and we pray for and evangelize to them.

 

[WilliamB]

I believe capital punishment is right, and I'm happy for the victory we enjoyed when the SEALs got him. But I'm not elated over his death. I accept it as the worst of a short list of good options.


Capital punishment didn't cease to be acceptable with the New Covenant, as Romans 13:4 makes clear. It's not the place of the church itself to go around executing people, but it's good and right for governments to do that. They lock 'em up, and we pray for and evangelize to them.

I don't that it ceases to be acceptable as shown in romans, however, I do think it becomes unacceptable to the loving and forgiving heart of those in Christ. Christ didn't have the adulterous woman stoned although she was guilty by the law. Why, because He is all love and forgiveness and we should strive to have a heart like Christ so we can walk and live as Christ did. Kind of difficult to do that if we're looking to execute those who have done wrong.

Additonally, that's not my covenant. My covenant is a freedom from the law so I can operate in righteousness. To me, it is not righteous to kill and I don't work for the courts of the non-believers so, it's not my issue to bear.

 

[Sketcher]

I don't that it ceases to be acceptable as shown in romans, however, I do think it becomes unacceptable to the loving and forgiving heart of those in Christ. Christ didn't have the adulterous woman stoned although she was guilty by the law. Why, because He is all love and forgiveness and we should strive to have a heart like Christ so we can walk and live as Christ did. Kind of difficult to do that if we're looking to execute those who have done wrong.

Jesus was being merciful. But just because he was merciful in that situation doesn't mean that stoning her to death wouldn't have been acceptable if the Romans hadn't been occupying and the man she was with had also been there to be executed.

Additonally, that's not my covenant. My covenant is a freedom from the law so I can operate in righteousness. To me, it is not righteous to kill and I don't work for the courts of the non-believers so, it's not my issue to bear.

Fun fact about covenants: there are multiple covenants in the Old Testament. There's the covenant of Noah, which is for all mankind, and which contains the first mandate for the death penalty. There's the covenant with Abraham, which established his seed as God's chosen people. There's the covenant with Israel, which was given through Moses with the law - this only pertains to the Jews. And there's the new covenant in Christ. There's plenty in Scripture to say this was replacing the covenant with Israel as promised, but none to say that it was setting aside the covenant with Abraham (rather the opposite, it fulfills it) or the covenant with Noah. We're all still under that one, which at minimum says to execute murderers, be kind to animals though we may eat them, and that God will never again use a flood to destroy us. Scholars have extrapolated additional laws out of this covenant as well, but the point is this covenant is still alive, it includes capital punishment, and there is no conflict between it and Christ's new covenant.

 

[Hammster]

The loving thing to do, I guess, is let all of the inmates out. After all, God is love.

 

[WilliamB]

Jesus was being merciful. But just because he was merciful in that situation doesn't mean that stoning her to death wouldn't have been acceptable if the Romans hadn't been occupying and the man she was with had also been there to be executed.

Really? Then why did He reattach the solidesr ear and say no, when they came to condemn Him? Because He is all mercy. Trying to put words in Jesus' mouth is just wrong. He did what He did and said what He said and it is sufficient until His return. Don't add to that based on your own beliefs.

Fun fact about covenants: there are multiple covenants in the Old Testament. There's the covenant of Noah, which is for all mankind, and which contains the first mandate for the death penalty. There's the covenant with Abraham, which established his seed as God's chosen people. There's the covenant with Israel, which was given through Moses with the law - this only pertains to the Jews. And there's the new covenant in Christ. There's plenty in Scripture to say this was replacing the covenant with Israel as promised, but none to say that it was setting aside the covenant with Abraham (rather the opposite, it fulfills it) or the covenant with Noah. We're all still under that one, which at minimum says to execute murderers, be kind to animals though we may eat them, and that God will never again use a flood to destroy us. Scholars have extrapolated additional laws out of this covenant as well, but the point is this covenant is still alive, it includes capital punishment, and there is no conflict between it and Christ's new covenant.

It's not about conflict between covenants. The law is just and good even though we are free from it. It's a matter of righteousness, not law. In order to seek to have someone executed you must harbor hatred, anger or revenge in your heart. Not love. You're not suggesting execution out of love are you? I seriously doubt that. This is where the problem lies. Not in the law. We are free from the law to do what is right by walking in love through the Spirit. We can not be walking in love through the Spirit if we are harboring hatred, anger and revenge in our hearts.

 

[WilliamB]

The loving thing to do, I guess, is let all of the inmates out. After all, God is love.

You're right, it would be a tremendous act of love, compassion and forgiveness. However, it may not be the righteous thing to do.

 

[Faith.Man]

I was ecstatic when I heard of that inhumane monster, Osama Bin Laden, was killed by U.S. forces-finally!

And then I think of despicable bleeding heart liberals and their namby pamby fairlyland beliefs of never killing anyone. Could you imagine capturing such a monster as Bin Laden and just letting him live in jail for the rest of his life? There is no other punishment suitable for him that death. The same with serial killers and other terrorists and such.

How can any reasonable person not agree with punishing people like Osama with death?

My reaction was a bit different. I felt nothing. He was just another death in the war on terror. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad justice was meted out quickly and decisively instead of waiting for Attorney General Eric Holder to have some show trial in New York or wherever. But there is no closure. The war on terror will go on until Jesus returns. In the mean time, someone will take Bin Laden's place.

I am proud of our Navy Seals and all our military personnel on-site and behind the scenes in support of our men and women in harms way. Special Forces are special people. They deserve our utmost respect, and later when they transition to civilian service of whatever they choose, they deserve whatever help necessary to ensure a successful shift to civilian life. I am proud of all our men and women who have put their lives on hold to serve in the military.

 

[Hammster]

You're right, it would be a tremendous act of love, compassion and forgiveness. However, it may not be the righteous thing to do.

How is something loving, but not righteous?

 

[jacks]

In one breath we pray our enemies will be punished for their sins. In the next breath we pray we won't be.