How can an atheist have a relationship with God?

singpraise · Dec 20, 2016

Mountain_Girl406 said:
Is it? Perhaps, but then I'd have to ask, what about those who aren't so fortunate? If having good things in life is evidence that the Christian God exists and has chosen to bless me, then those struggling with war, poverty, illness, addiction, loss, mental health issues, etc...what do they have evidence of?

Believers who struggle with poverty, war, illness, addiction, etc., have the comfort and strength of knowing God is with them in their struggles. EVERY life has struggles. Nobody escapes hardship. I personally have been through hellish struggles I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. The strength of God helped me through it. I've suffered a lot, but I've never suffered alone, because of Him.

Mountain_Girl406 · Dec 20, 2016

singpraise said:
I was thinking the same thing. Like, isn't that perfect evidence?

I guess it's all in the way you look at life. To me it seems sad to have the blessing of the beauty of nature in your life, but have no gratitude towards the creator of nature. Atheists miss out on so much joy and comfort. And peace. And certainty.

Well, sure, athiests miss out on this comfort of knowing that there is a God, which makes me wonder, if there really is such a being, why does He not reveal Himself?

Mountain_Girl406 · Dec 20, 2016

singpraise said:
Believers who struggle with poverty, war, illness, addiction, etc., have the comfort and strength of knowing God is with them in their struggles. EVERY life has struggles. Nobody escapes hardship. I personally have been through hellish struggles I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. The strength of God helped me through it. I've suffered a lot, but I've never suffered alone, because of Him.

So, hardship is evidence of God, and blessings are evidence of God...but it seems you already have to believe in God to recognize this? Where does one start then, if they don't yet believe in God?

vinsight4u · Dec 20, 2016

vinsight4u · Dec 20, 2016

Mountain_Girl406 · Dec 20, 2016

vinsight4u said:
A life without faith in God is a life going in the wrong direction now and for eternity. Those type of people will end up being abhorred as they are looked upon by the ones that worship God and are in flesh at the time of the new earth is here.

Isaiah 66:22-24

So what does one do if they are currently living a life without faith in God and want to change? Can you fake faith, or will it into existence?

vinsight4u · Dec 20, 2016

Aryeh Jay · Dec 20, 2016

singpraise · Dec 20, 2016

Mountain_Girl406 said:
Well, sure, athiests miss out on this comfort of knowing that there is a God, which makes me wonder, if there really is such a being, why does He not reveal Himself?

He has revealed Himself in a myriad of ways. He created everything. He created YOU. And He gave His Son. And He gave the Word of God (aka the Bible). You can choose to deny Him but that doesn't mean He hasn't done His part, because He most certainly has. And millions upon millions of people, much smarter than both you and I, believe in Him. People dedicate their entire lives to the study of how much God has revealed Himself to His creation - us humans. You will never be able to get to the end of how much He's revealed Himself if you just choose to look and listen.

singpraise · Dec 20, 2016

Mountain_Girl406 said:
So, hardship is evidence of God, and blessings are evidence of God...but it seems you already have to believe in God to recognize this? Where does one start then, if they don't yet believe in God?

Well, you could start with a simple prayer. You could ask Him if He exists to reveal Himself to you personally. I did that at one time, over 20 years ago. And He answered and has never left my heart since.

I would like to add, however, that I never doubted the existence of God, I just wanted to know Him as more than the Creator or "life force," that I believed Him to be. I was raised Catholic and struggled a lot, not to believe God existed but to have a personal relationship with Him, as a Person. That was and still is more important to me than just being aware of God's existence. I really wanted to know Him and have a change in my heart and in my life. I prayed the prayer, known as the Salvation Prayer (easily found if you choose to find it), and for once prayed sincerely and with humility. I am beyond thankful I did that because it changed my life from that point on.

Mountain_Girl406 · Dec 20, 2016

singpraise said:
He has revealed Himself in a myriad of ways. He created everything. He created YOU. And He gave His Son. And He gave the Word of God (aka the Bible). You can choose to deny Him but that doesn't mean He hasn't done His part, because He most certainly has. And millions upon millions of people, much smarter than both you and I, believe in Him. People dedicate their entire lives to the study of how much God has revealed Himself to His creation - us humans. You will never be able to get to the end of how much He's revealed Himself if you just choose to look and listen.

So, how do I go about that? I've chosen to look and listen for a long time, but haven't found him yet.

Mountain_Girl406 · Dec 20, 2016

singpraise said:
Well, you could start with a simple prayer. You could ask Him if He exists to reveal Himself to you personally. I did that at one time, over 20 years ago. And He answered and has never left my heart since.

I would like to add, however, that I never doubted the existence of God, I just wanted to know Him as more than the Creator or "life force," that I believed Him to be. I was raised Catholic and struggled a lot, not to believe God existed but to have a personal relationship with Him, as a Person. That was and still is more important to me than just being aware of God's existence. I really wanted to know Him and have a change in my heart and in my life. I prayed the prayer, known as the Salvation Prayer (easily found if you choose to find it), and for once prayed sincerely and with humility. I am beyond thankful I did that because it changed my life from that point on.

I have prayed those prayers since I first started doubting forty years ago.

Mountain_Girl406 · Dec 20, 2016

vinsight4u said:
They need to realize their sin of rejecting God and turn to faith in Jesus Christ that He arose from the dead as their Saviour and offers them eternal life.

To me, some fake faith. Sitting in church does not make one a believer in Jesus Christ. Maybe it is just a habit or looks good to others, so they go. God hates certain things and that means a person must leave those things behind - such as idolatry...lying...murder/hating his brother...and sin in general.

as for willing faith into existence>
Not sure just what you mean. Jesus Christ wills that none perish and we find it written as to whosoever will may come.

I have no faith and I don't understand how to get it.

JoeP222w · Dec 20, 2016

To the original question: No, an Atheist cannot have a relationship with God.

Hebrews 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

singpraise · Dec 20, 2016

Mountain_Girl406 said:
I have no faith and I don't understand how to get it.

I'm sad for you and will include you in my prayers. Faith is a gift. But, God always honors and answers sincere and humble prayers in accordance with His will. God would NEVER say NO to someone who truly desired the gift of faith in Him through His Son Jesus Christ.

In fact, God goes out of His way to give people every chance to believe before he allows their hearts to become permanently hardened. It takes more energy to block out the presence of God than it does to allow Him in once He pursues a person, and pursue a person He will. (Read the non-fiction works of C.S. Lewis and how he came to really know God, for example. Or, read The Hound of Heaven, by Francis Thompson, a remarkable work of poetry, for further explanation).

Would you mind sharing more of your story as to what originally caused you to stop believing in God? Did you experience a severe tragedy in your life that caused you to lose your faith?

You list your faith as "Catholic" and you're participating on a Christian forum, which would lead me to believe you have some modicum of faith. Or, have you felt like you've always been merely mouthing the words of faith without having allowed the Spirit to truly enter you? I'm only guessing here, of course. I would sincerely like to help if I can and if you're interested.

Something I've noticed with a few atheists I've known personally tends to be a rather smug and disdainful attitude towards believers. I'm not saying you have that attitude but I've encountered those who feel more educated, more intelligent, more "scientific," etc., than those whom they misperceive as being less intelligent, i.e., the "typical believer," in their opinion. Which only shows their ignorance as some of the most intelligent, scientific, brilliant and highly educated minds in the history of the world became believers. Those things don't go hand-in-hand with belief, in fact, at times a high intelligence and level of education can be a stumbling block to faith. That's the meaning of Proverbs 3:5: "Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding."

If you think you'll find God through your logic or your intelligence or your wit you won't. God honors a sincere and humble person who truly wants to receive His gift of salvation. It does take a sincere humbling of the heart and mind, it's true. Nobody can approach God with a sense of pride and think it will get them anywhere fast.

2PhiloVoid · Dec 20, 2016

Mountain_Girl406 said:
So, hardship is evidence of God, and blessings are evidence of God...but it seems you already have to believe in God to recognize this? Where does one start then, if they don't yet believe in God?

What I'm about to say, I'm not saying to imply any lack of intelligence on your part, Mountain_Girl, but rather it is meant to perhaps make at least a hair-line crack in the complex of ambiguity you are sensing as you assess the meaning of Christian "evidences."

I think what you're missing is that while both evil and good can be seen as "evidences" of God, the particular angles that may enable us to view these things as appropriate evidences for faith are dependent on the contextual relations these angles have with the Jewish people as a historical ethnic and spiritual group, as well as with their direct ties to the meanings and connections that have been expressed through the "Jewishly Initiated" Scriptures.

Without these contextual relations bearing upon your willingness to look at the Christian faith, you will probably recognize very little of what you were meant to see as being evidence for the kind of presence God actually has in the world and has had through Christ.

Just something to think about ...

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

Mountain_Girl406 · Dec 20, 2016

So, if God says no to me, it means I don't truly desire to believe?

My story in a nutshell. ...around 7 or 8, as common with many kids, I began wondering how the world worked and looking for evidence to help understand it. I concluded that magic tricks weren't real magic but clever acts (and learned to appreciate them more when I learned how they worked), learned the tooth fairy was just my folks (what a relief), learned that what happened on TV shows was created in a studio by actors, Santa Claus was a lovely and fun myth, how cars worked, etc...
Then because it was natural to do so, I started wondering the same thing about God...was He real or not.
At 8, I wondered how one could know...logic, an encounter with God, on the word of a trusted adult?
Although I've collected a lot of evidence and experience in the 41 years since then, I still don't know if God exists. I have my doubts, but also think it might be nice to have faith so I hang out here and continue to attend church.

singpraise said:
I'm sad for you and will include you in my prayers. Faith is a gift. But, God always honors and answers sincere and humble prayers in accordance with His will. God would NEVER say NO to someone who truly desired the gift of faith in Him through His Son Jesus Christ.

In fact, God goes out of His way to give people every chance to believe before he allows their hearts to become permanently hardened. It takes more energy to block out the presence of God than it does to allow Him in once He pursues a person, and pursue a person He will. (Read the non-fiction works of C.S. Lewis and how he came to really know God, for example. Or, read The Hound of Heaven, by Francis Thompson, a remarkable work of poetry, for further explanation).

Would you mind sharing more of your story as to what originally caused you to stop believing in God? Did you experience a severe tragedy in your life that caused you to lose your faith?

You list your faith as "Catholic" and you're participating on a Christian forum, which would lead me to believe you have some modicum of faith. Or, have you felt like you've always been merely mouthing the words of faith without having allowed the Spirit to truly enter you? I'm only guessing here, of course. I would sincerely like to help if I can and if you're interested.

Something I've noticed with a few atheists I've known personally tends to be a rather smug and disdainful attitude towards believers. I'm not saying you have that attitude but I've encountered those who feel more educated, more intelligent, more "scientific," etc., than those whom they misperceive as being less intelligent, i.e., the "typical believer," in their opinion. Which only shows their ignorance as some of the most intelligent, scientific, brilliant and highly educated minds in the history of the world became believers. Those things don't go hand-in-hand with belief, in fact, at times a high intelligence and level of education can be a stumbling block to faith. That's the meaning of Proverbs 3:5: "Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding."

If you think you'll find God through your logic or your intelligence or your wit you won't. God honors a sincere and humble person who truly wants to receive His gift of salvation. It does take a sincere humbling of the heart and mind, it's true. Nobody can approach God with a sense of pride and think it will get them anywhere fast.

Mountain_Girl406 · Dec 20, 2016

2PhiloVoid said:
What I'm about to say, I'm not saying to imply any lack of intelligence on your part, Mountain_Girl, but rather it is meant to perhaps make at least a hair-line crack in the complex of ambiguity you are sensing as you assess the meaning of Christian "evidences."

I think what you're missing is that while both evil and good can be seen as "evidences" of God, the particular angles that may enable us to view these things as appropriate evidences for faith are dependent on the contextual relations these angles have with the Jewish people as a historical ethnic and spiritual group, as well as with their direct ties to the meanings and connections that have been expressed through the "Jewishly Initiated" Scriptures.

Without these contextual relations bearing upon your willingness to look at the Christian faith, you will probably recognize very little of what you were meant to see as being evidence for the kind of presence God actually has in the world and has had through Christ.

Just something to think about ...

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

No, I think you're right on in that one of the biggest challenges to faith is that people look through things through the lens of their faith. My Hindu, Muslim and Pagan friends might see a positive event as an indication that their belief system is real, or see the face of their god (s) when they look at nature, and who is to say their experience is any less real than the Christian one?

PanDeVida · Dec 20, 2016

Athée said:
Hi all,

Deadworm threw down the gauntlet suggesting that I make an earnest effort to re-aquire my belief in God. I'm not sure what he has planned but I would very much like to be convinced so I will put myself in his hands for the journey.

I am not sure to what extent this will be an interactive, all participants welcome kind of thread, however of you feel like you have something to add please feel free to respectfully engage!

Peace,
Athée

Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk

Athee, God gave everyone a grace in their souls to find Him. Many utilize this grace and have found Him, many more do not utilize this grace. It seems to me that you are utilizing this grace, to find Him. How do I know this? I know this because you are here, wanting to learn of Him. Please do not bury this grace, but let it GROW, this Grace into Eternal Salvation.

Jesus Mary Bless you on your Journey Home.

2PhiloVoid · Dec 20, 2016

Mountain_Girl406 said:
No, I think you're right on in that one of the biggest challenges to faith is that people look through things through the lens of their faith. My Hindu, Muslim and Pagan friends might see a positive event as an indication that their belief system is real, or see the face of their god (s) when they look at nature, and who is to say their experience is any less real than the Christian one?

That's a different issue, Mountain_Girl, one that you are bringing into the proposal that I'm suggesting (and one that, if I weren't so willing to accommodate other people's efforts, I might surmise was meant to provide an obstruction to the point I'm trying to suggest).

Sure....Hindus (of various yogas, castes, and stages of life), Buddhists (of either Big Raft or Little Raft belief), Muslims (of 3 or 4 kinds), Pagans (of both ancient and modern Wiccan strains), Shintoists, Taoists (Philosophical, or religious, or popular), along with Judaism's now multiplex of choices, and the many denominational perspectives on the Bible, will all have some peculiar values and a required "understanding of approach" by which to enter into that particular view. But, so what? Whether Christianity is true or not is not dependent on how those other religions view themselves or as to how they mandate their respective praxis in order for an adherent to carry on.

So, regardless of what the OTHER religions require, what I'm suggesting is that in order for you to begin to see Christianity as "true," regardless of the denomination you are in, there are some various contexts both inside and outside of the Bible which will have to be recognized as integral to an understanding of the theology of the Bible, contexts that may provide you an epistemic position by which you will become enabled to "access" the Christian faith. Of course, I'd be remiss if I failed to say that in the process of all of this, somewhere in there, God Himself will have to play some role in your perception (and even conception) of assurance.

Do you see what I'm getting at? (But, let's not bring in what other religions do or need on a perceptual scale because that is, in essence, is a "red-herring." Don't do that to yourself!)

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

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