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How biologist vs creationists organizes life

AV1611VET

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I don't think we have a disagreement there. But as you can tell from my graphs I don't think creationist plays this game very well.
Neither do I.

As I have said before: it's the witchcraft version of connect-the-dots.
In situ said:
The reason for this is because they don't know the rules of the game. Creationist think it is a free for all in where you can just make up any rule you like.
I don't think the dots are made up.

I think they are supported by actual pieces of evidence somewhere.

Homo erectus is in a museum somewhere, Homo [whatever] is in another museum somewhere else.

But those two dots require a line be drawn between them, else the general public isn't going to buy it.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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Can you tell me what you perceive to be the evidence?
It was also unclear to me if you believe in theistic evolution or something else?

The sheer wonder found in nature simply goes beyond the realm of science. That birds can 'see' the electromagnetic field of the earth for example is almost supernatural, never mind their remarkable migratory habits. It's a matter of being empowered from within (evolution) and being empowered from without (creation). Creation wins hands down.

Regarding TE, I don't know how God did it and I don't think too much about it. I'm guessing it's beyond my comprehension in any case.
 
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Loudmouth

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The sheer wonder found in nature simply goes beyond the realm of science. That birds can 'see' the electromagnetic field of the earth for example is almost supernatural, never mind their remarkable migratory habits. It's a matter of being empowered from within (evolution) and being empowered from without (creation). Creation wins hands down.

Regarding TE, I don't know how God did it and I don't think too much about it. I'm guessing it's beyond my comprehension in any case.

Yet another example of a theist trying to pretend the natural is supernatural.
 
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In situ

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The sheer wonder found in nature simply goes beyond the realm of science. That birds can 'see' the electromagnetic field of the earth for example is almost supernatural, never mind their remarkable migratory habits.

I respect your romantic view and awe of nature, however, have you considered that other people might know something that you do not know, people like scientist, and that they may think this is wonderful perhaps, but not in any way or sense magical?

In any case, this is not the evidence scientists looks at when concluding a common ancestor, so no, we do not look at the same evidence. Not even remotely the same. Therefore when you first said:

"What appears to be evolution is just different creatures made from the same stuff, more or less."

I understand it as you hold this belief due to ignorance of the evidence for evolution. Do you agree to my understanding of this?

Regarding TE, I don't know how God did it and I don't think too much about it. I'm guessing it's beyond my comprehension in any case.

But you regard it to be within your own comprehension to conclude god must had created life?

But my question was not how you think god made it but more if you believe that evolution have happen, or none at all? Do you believe in an old Earth or a young ?
 
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In situ

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The whole thing is supernatural. :bow:

It is sometime remarked that people from a sufficient advanced civilization will look like magic users to a more primitive civilization. In fact there are people today that believe that some of the technology we posses today has been give to use by space aliens - despite the history record of how science and engineering has evolved. In the same way there are people today that believe god created all life - despite the history record we have of how life have evolved.

Btw, is there any beliefs or supernatural contained within the graphs I made in the OP? I am asking, because the evidence for evolution and a common ancestor is encoded in those graph. So if you see no supernatural in them, then there is no supernatural phenomena nor any beliefs involved in evolution.
 
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In situ

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Connect the dots.


I just had a look at the video you posted. It was amusing, however there is small problem with the analogy. The problem is the usually creationistic parody version of science.

The creationistic parody states that you 1) start with a blank paper with dots (wrong), and then 2) draw a tree (wrong), by 3) connecting similar (wrong) dots with lines. This is utter nonsense and a straw man of gigantic proportions since this is not even remotely close to how it is done.

Relationships are built by separating that which is most different from everything else. That involves starting with a fully connected graph which you prune until you gone through a comparison of everything against everything. After pruning is done the end result should be a tree or else somethings is wrong.

(A remaining graph implies a loop and if a loop exists then you have either been using bad data, e.g. characteristics which is not inherent, or you have falsified the theory of evolution and can collect the Nobel Prize in Biology. Example on what wold create loops are crockoducks, griffins, centaurs and unicorns).

This is the completely opposite of what creationist claims to be the case. (Not to mention ignorant claim that evolution says anything is possible such as cockoducks and other forms of ridiculous chimeras). For this reason and many others, I don't hesitate to say that creationist are liars which obscures science in general and biology in particular.

What you seems not to know or ignore is the fact that the conclusion of a common ancestry has its foundation in well established theoretical mathematical theories such as graph and set theory. Set theory is related to mathematical logic. That means the power of logical reasoning can be expressed as set. Graphs and trees are sets, do I need to say more? Most of that math I do not understand, but I know enough to understand what it has to say about the theory of evolution. The math clearly states: common ancestor is a fact!

Every fool seems to think they are qualified to have a critical opinion in biology and particular common ancestor, but the fact is most non-biologists have no clue what they are talking about (and I am including myself in this). Every critical non-biologist lack the necessary knowledge (the biology and the math) to understand biology at a deeper level, most does not even get the simplest basics high school biology correct. In particular this is true when it comes to creationists which knowledge is close to zero on virtual any subject except the bible.

Creationist's claims implies the supporting math theories are wrong... how likely is that considering we have not seen any refutation of these mathematical theories in any peer reviewed math journal ? Not very likely at all....

Put it another way; if God is the great mathematician, does creationists then claim God to be a liar? I am prone to say 'yes' to that.

For the now utterly confused reader I present the simplified short version:

The Official Creationist to English Dictionary
:
Lie 1 similar = different
Lie 2 connect = disconnect
Lie 3 single = everything

Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour!
 
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AV1611VET

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I just had a look at the video you posted. It was amusing, however there is small problem with the analogy. The problem is the usually creationistic parody version of science.
tl;dr
 
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OldWiseGuy

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[/QUOTE]
But you regard it to be within your own comprehension to conclude god must had created life?

Isn't the appearance of life a different subject altogether?

But my question was not how you think god made it but more if you believe that evolution have happen, or none at all? Do you believe in an old Earth or a young ?

I'm an OEC, a GAP believer. Changes over time are directed from without, not from within an organism. Consider a ball rolling down a hill. It appears to be moving of it's own volition. But someone had to get it rolling in the first place. Theistic Evolution, as it's called, is still creation. God is still 'the man behind the curtain'.
 
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joshua 1 9

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scientist claims
A scientific claim is a lot like a greased monkey in a tag match. Just about the time you pin them down to actually making a claim that can be falsified or verified they will slip out from under that claim or tag their partner with an alternate claim.
 
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Loudmouth

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A scientific claim is a lot like a greased monkey in a tag match. Just about the time you pin them down to actually making a claim that can be falsified or verified they will slip out from under that claim or tag their partner with an alternate claim.

Projection.
 
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Loudmouth

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It sure seems that way at the time.

resized_fry-can-t-tell-meme-generator-i-can-t-tell-if-this-is-funny-because-you-re-joking-or-if-it-s-funny-because-you-re-serious-747525.jpg
 
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Loudmouth

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Yep, takes one to know one.

You are the person who makes all these claims about science saying this or that. When challenged to show us where science says that you suddenly change your tune. You hop from claim to claim, never having any intention of supporting any of them.
 
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joshua 1 9

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You are the person who makes all these claims about science saying this or that. When challenged to show us where science says that you suddenly change your tune. You hop from claim to claim, never having any intention of supporting any of them.
It is not my job to do your homework for you. I back up everything I say with a link and a source. Is this a personal attack? Sure sounds like it to me.
 
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