How Are Your End Time Views Different?

[NannaNae]

I really am skeptical on Constatine as well. So, this is another reason why I am not big on a pure historicist version.

In general, on most things of Revelation, I am "I do not know".


I want to know, but I need evidence. I hold a lot of theories, but the evidence seems weak.

I'm with you I hold a lot of veiws lightly and a few a little more so.. but these peterists (sp?) views are only fulfilled in part because It is his word and his prophesy/ breath/ the WORD is alive and so it was! in part and it IT IS being, the I am IS NOW .. these then are double witnesses to the fact" it will be" also and in full that time.

the woman clothed with the sun.. it will have three fulfillment's because it his , his words his picture his revealing.. .. and he is alive/life , his words alive and his words are life.

 

[Midst]

I'm with you I hold a lot of veiws lightly and a few a little more so.. but these peterists (sp?) views are only fulfilled in part because It is his word and his prophesy/ breath/ the WORD is alive and so it was! in part and it IT IS being, the I am IS NOW .. these then are double witnesses to the fact" it will be" also and in full that time.

the woman clothed with the sun.. it will have three fulfillment's because it his , his words his picture his revealing.. .. and he is alive/life , his words alive and his words are life.

Some could be fulfilled in part. I think the "partial fulfillment" arguments do have some basis in Scripture. For instance, Jesus quoted "I have come to declare good news" at the beginning of his sermon, halving a quote in Scripture which ends speaking of the Day of Judgment, the Second Coming.



But... many of these viewspoints I just do not see. It just seems like guesses. Throwing a dart randomly at a board.

 

[NannaNae]

so much of the bible's truth is what you learn from him directly .
at best I can only hint of those things because if he hid them in there, why should we declare them , isn't it his right in his time ? because most of it is about our personal part of his plan.
sorry I'm not talking about that ever.. I could barely think about it, much less repeat those things..
so the foundations of his truth are in his words and details are to be revealed as he is revealed to us and truly only those who seek him and will find him and his truths. .. because we become responsible for what we know , because of who we know.

He is not going to give personal knowledge and details , unless we are in commitment with him right?

 

[interpreter]

It is, just check out wiki on some of the main symbols of Revelation. I remember Hank Hanagraff finally disclosing himself as historicist. There is strong evidence in Revelation of some sort of historicist view. I am unpersuaded myself, as there is a difference between *conclusive* evidence and strong evidence.

Also, as I noted, Catholicism, is, of course, very big and while I disagree with a lot of their viewpoints, they do have a number of the historicist viewpoints... and with some good reason.

But, I tend to view, instead, the events of the past as likely related to something happening in the future.

I think, besides, for instance the major failings of Christian majority states: the inquisition, colonialism, neo-colonialism, the mess the US has been making in Muslim lands, and so on... this, though, remains a problem for me.

My view is more that these nations want to seduce Christians with the idea that they are with them, but their actions seem to show they are against them.

I have to say God surely was behind some of these behaviors, however, even if they were savage. God is known to work with where people are and with even their savage tendencies. Otherwise, how would we as human beings have any converse with God at all?


I am not at all so sure about fulfillment of the last seven plagues being as you say. Cancer has been around but only recently identified as such, for instance. You see really horrendous plagues in the Middle Ages. And then in the last century you saw really incredible evil in Hitler and Stalin, as well as across the world (Hoover, Pol Pot, Mao, and so on).

Hitler and Stalin are prophesied. Hitler was the antichrist, and Stalin/Moscow are the great harlot who sits on 7 hills and many waters (5 seas).
Besides the plagues of skin cancer, red tides, and global warming, the Euphrates was dry on 9/11, and we are now dropping 100 pound "hailstones" on the 7th head of the beast.

 

[Midst]

Hitler and Stalin are prophesied. Hitler was the antichrist, and Stalin/Moscow are the great harlot who sits on 7 hills and many waters (5 seas).
Besides the plagues of skin cancer, red tides, and global warming, the Euphrates was dry on 9/11, and we are now dropping 100 pound "hailstones" on the 7th head of the beast.

Hitler and Stalin definitely are of the anti-christ, but being "the" antichrist, I do not share your confidence with your conclusions there.

And I do not share your confidence with Moscow being the city of seven hills. That typically is said to be Rome or Jerusalem.

I am not sure how dry the Euphrates was on 911, now how that matters. I am aware Turkey has messed with the Euphrates up stream. How that relates to prophecy, I do not know.

Skin cancer, red tides, and global warming are things that happen. I do not see how one can specifically tie that into prophecy. Cancer, in general, has probably been around a very long time but only recently has it been described. So people can mistake it as being "new".

Some red water happenings have happened, but as far as I know, largely local events here and there.

 

[Midst]

This is referring to ultimately the destruction and dispersion of Israel. This happened somewhat in the first century, moreso in the second, and continued until recent times.

This does not mean God will reject Israel forever, even if it says "they will be thrown out" as if "for good". Because the people who were to be punished are not the same as Israel today.

The current Israel has been strongly prophesied towards. For instance, in another post I pointed out Ezekiel 38 & 39 and those uncanny prophecies there, some of which have come true.

There are many such verses, some such as that Israel would be a center of negative attention are often bandied about by people.

There is also a bias problem here: the evidence says one thing, but people do not want to believe that. They take it personally. They are neither Jewish nor Israeli. If they had confidence in their salvation, I believe, they would follow the evidence and not be concerned about twisting evidence to their own bias.

Put another way: unless you have fully come to terms with the prophecies which Israel has fulfilled in recent memory, you have not even considered them. Because you have not even thought the matter out. You believe something contradictory *and* **want** to believe that. Despite it not being from God.


Show me you understand the evidence about Israel in Scripture, and then how you dismiss them, plausibly, to persuade someone like myself. Otherwise, all you are doing is *not* mentioning the gorilla in the room, so we do.

 

[NannaNae]

"There is also a bias problem here: the evidence says one thing, but people do not want to believe that. They take it personally. They are neither Jewish nor Israeli. If they had confidence in their salvation, I believe, they would follow the evidence and not be concerned about twisting evidence to their own bias."

I do think God wants more than faith/believe in him , angels believe in him ..
I do think God looks for more than faith in salvation or in a prayer..
I think he wants relationship and thankfulness, love and forgiveness also...... only then can we forgive his people when we really know we are forgiven because they were not ... because only when we are thankful do we understand they were blinded for a reason and purpose and that purpose was us and our salvation . so then we have to offer them the same grace and love and support and forgiveness if they deserve it or not ,that they/ we seem to demand from God. we won't get it if we don't give it period.

 

[Midst]

A thought, Midst...

Read all sixteen chapters of Romans [KJV] a minimum of twenty-five through without attempting to understand any of it. Likewise with Ephesians.

I take it you are here trying to explain away what Paul stated by the Holy Spirit about Israel.

The fact is that what Paul said is clear and plain. It is the gorilla in the room. People *really* have to work and play a game of pretend to make that out to be something else. As it is not flattering to gentiles, and they are gentiles, there is some unflattering bias there that stands out, too.

Further, this is not the only verse which is a problem when someone tries to dismiss Israel. There are many. And everyone knows it.

This is a problem often in the Church: the infamous "are you going to believe me, and what you see, or your lying eyes".


Nobody has to give elaborate interpretations making gibberish out of self-evidence and plainly written statements regarding Israel.

In fact, these are very serious statements that prove the validity of prophecy which have come to pass within this generation.

I will even state what I consider to be two of the plausible explanations here that are contrary:

(1) That these were self-fulfilling prophecies
(2) That these are somehow metaphoric for spiritual Israel. Romans is very hard to argue in this way.


There is surely a major blocker here for people:

(1) they are gentile, and not in Israel, so this goes against their preferences... therefore, they believe **what they want to believe** instead of the truth


Do not forget, Jesus firmly stated to Jerusalem, "You will not see me again until you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the Name of the Lord'"

That has not happened yet, nor has the second coming already happened.

 

[NannaNae]

"Do not forget, Jesus firmly stated to Jerusalem, "You will not see me again until you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the Name of the Lord'"

That has not happened yet, nor has the second coming already happened." awesome!

 

[Interplanner]

It is not a prediction Nanna. it is a warning to them at that time. A group of his followers had sung Ps 118 (the source) but they had not. That's all he saying. If they would do it, they would "get" him; he is what the Psalm was about.

 

[vinsight4u]

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