How are you saved?

[Buzzard3]

It is not enough for some and have to keep adding to it, which is a clear tactic of satan.

Performing good works - aka holiness - aka obeying God's commandments ... yep, that's real satanic!

 

[Danthemailman]

Some people on here do not understand the power of the cross and the work Jesus done on it. It is not enough for some and have to keep adding to it, which is a clear tactic of satan. We can only pray God in His mercy touches their heart so they can also see what Jesus done.

Christ’s finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers. No supplements needed. (Romans 3:24-28)

 

[Buzzard3]

Christ’s finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers. No supplements needed. (Romans 3:24-28)

Does that mean a believer can give in to any and all temptation to sin and still be saved?

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

Performing good works - aka holiness - aka obeying God's commandments ... yep, that's real satanic!

There is nothing you can add to the cross. Jesus done it all on the cross. That people believe in their hearts is only a mercy of Heavenly Father. Our hearts are sinful and not capable of faith and obedience, God has to change our hearts for us to believe.

I did not say good works are satanic, but that if you think you need to add to the cross is. What to do you want to add to Jesus' perfect sacrifice? And you will always live in fear that you do not add enough and you are unsure of your salvation - totally wrong.

And even our good deeds are prepared for us by God, do not think you do good out of your own intitive. Look for example at King David when the Jews prepared all the gold, silver etc to build the temple, King David said that all of this was voluntary because it came out of God, He is the one who leans our hearts.

And the fruits of the Spirit....these are produced by Holy Spirit and not us. Look at John 15:1-2. If we bring something to God it is because God calls us to so and not of our own inititiave.

Now does that mean once Christian is saved he can do nothing rest of his life and be saved. Absolutely. But no Christian ever does that because he is like the woman at the dwell in John 4 who went to tell everyone when Jesus revealed to her He is a Messiah. Christians are like a bride, have you ever seen a bride sitting on her bed waiting until wedding? No. She is full of love, prepares herself, does eveything to please the bridegroom. Christians are the same.

 

[Buzzard3]

Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.

In Rev 3:4, Jesus declares certain believers "worthy" of salvation due to their works.

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

Performing good works - aka holiness - aka obeying God's commandments ... yep, that's real satanic!

Furthermore to my 1st post. Look at the first Church in the book of revelation in Rev 2. Jesus praised them for many good deeds yet because their heart was cold towards God and He told them to repent or to face judgement. Why? Because to love God with all your heart is the most and only important thing that matters. If your heart is not right with God then it doesn't matter how you live your life, you will never go to Heaven. If people who proclaim to be Christians sin, and they do not love Christ first, and they do not repent....they never been Christians in the first place. Every one of us needs a new heart from God that is capable to love Him, otherwise you will never enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Oh and btw what we consider good deeds and what God considers good deeds are two different things.

 

[Buzzard3]

Oh and btw what we consider good deeds and what God considers good deeds are two different things.

Good deeds (aka works/holiness) are simply keeping God's commandments ... which are described in the NT.

 

[Buzzard3]

did not say good works are satanic, but that if you think you need to add to the cross is. What to do you want to add to Jesus' perfect sacrifice? And you will always live in fear that you do not add enough and you are unsure of your salvation - totally wrong.

"If you love me, you will keep my commandments." (John 14:15)

"As obedient children, do not be conformed to the passions of your former ignorance, but as he who called you is holy, be holy yourselves in all your conduct; since it is written, “You shall be holy, for I am holy.” And if you invoke as Father him who judges each one impartially according to his deeds, conduct yourselves with fear throughout the time of your exile." (1Peter 1:14-17)

 

[Danthemailman]

Does that mean a believer can give in to any and all temptation to sin and still be saved?

Straw man argument. Genuine Christians are characterized by love, practicing righteousness and not sin. (1 John 3:9-10; 4:7) This does not mean that genuine Christian’s never sin at all, but they also do not live like the devil. (1 Corinthians 6:9-11)

 

[Danthemailman]

In Rev 3:4, Jesus declares certain believers "worthy" of salvation due to their works.

Worthy of salvation solely based on their own merits apart from the blood of Christ and the righteousness which is of God by faith? (Romans 3:24-28; Philippians 3:9) NO. You error by teaching “works righteousness.”

In Luke 20:35, we read - But those who are considered/counted/accounted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage.

In Romans 4:3, Abrahams’ faith was counted to him as righteousness, but does that mean he was righteous (apart from faith) in of himself? NO.

In Romans 4:5-6, we read - And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, 6 just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts/credits/imputes righteousness apart from works.

Get the picture?

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

Good deeds (aka works/holiness) are simply keeping God's commandments ... which are described in the NT.

But your heart needs to be right with God. There is no pleasing God without faith, and there is no genuine faith without the work of the Holy Spirit. We are spiritually dead, unable to keep God's commandments, unable to have connection with God. That is why one has to be born again. By grace one is born again, not by deeds. It doesn't work like you have to do this and that in order to be born again. Why do you think God gave Israel the commandments when He said no one can keep His commandments. So Israel would realise their sin and holiness of God so they would depend on Him for their salvation.

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

"If you love me, you will keep my commandments."

Yes I know this verse. But we are all sinners, incapable of loving God. We have all fallen in Adam and died spiritually, our hearts are like a stone, dead in sin. This heart is not capable to even recognise the true God let alone to follow His commandments. God in His mercy has to rip away this sinful heart and give you a new heart that is capable of loving. Only once God does this and you are born of the Spirit can you follow His commandments. It is this heart that desires to always please God and do His will. This is why you never see real Christians doing nothing, or living in sin, because they constantly want to please God and love Him, be in a loving relationship with Him, live joyfully before Him, awaiting Him every day, even when facing persecution still loving Him even more. This is what the NT teaches, that it will show in the life of the true believer, because He will model His life after Jesus, but that's only possible once you are born again.

 

[Buzzard3]

Once again, in Galatians 5, Paul was talking about those who practice such sins listed in verses 19-21 and in 1 Corinthians 6, Paul was talking about the unrighteous (not the righteous) who will not inherit the kingdom of God, as

In those verses, Paul is warning believers that their sins can result in not making it to Heaven. In other words, Paul preaches salvation thru faith and works.

Only a fool would twist Paul words and ignore his warning.

I already thoroughly explained to you.

I rejected your explanation on account of it being idiotic rubbish.

 

[Danthemailman]

In those verses, Paul is warning believers that their sins can result in not making it to Heaven.

I already proved otherwise from scripture, but you don’t seem to understand that genuine believers are not described as the unrighteous (1 Corinthians 6:9) or those who practice such sins. (Galatians 5:21)

In other words, Paul preaches salvation thru faith and works.

False! Your church may preach that, but Paul preaches salvation through faith, NOT WORKS. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9)

Only a fool would twist Paul words and ignore his warning.

It’s not genuine believers who twist Paul’s words and ignore his warning. It’s the unrighteous/those who practice such sins/make believers.

I rejected your explanation on account of it being idiotic rubbish.

You reject the truth from scripture as idiotic rubbish and there is a reason for that.

 

[Buzzard3]

I already proved otherwise from scripture, but you don’t seem to understand that genuine believers are not described as the unrighteous (1 Corinthians 6:9) or those who practice such sins. (Galatians 5:21)

False! Your church may preach that, but Paul preaches salvation through faith, NOT WORKS. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9)

It’s not genuine believers who twist Paul’s words and ignore his warning. It’s the unrighteous/those who practice such sins/make believers.

You reject the truth from scripture as idiotic rubbish and there is a reason for that.

Hilarious stuff ... next you'll be telling me that your bizarre interpretations of Scripture are the result of being infallibly guided the Holy Spirit.

 

[Danthemailman]

Hilarious stuff ... next you'll be telling me that your bizarre interpretations of Scripture are the result of being infallibly guided the Holy Spirit.

1 Corinthians 2:11 - For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God. 13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[Buzzard3]

I already proved otherwise from scripture, but you don’t seem to understand that genuine believers are not described as the unrighteous (1 Corinthians 6:9) or those who practice such sins. (Galatians 5:21)

If the believers in Gal 5:21 were righteous, Paul would have had no need to warn them of the potentially spiritually-fatal consequences of the their unrighteousness (sin). But Paul is warning ALL believers - including the righteous ones - since righteous believers too can fall into unrighteuosness if they chose to.

To claim that Paul's warning doesn't apply to all believers is ridiculous.

So in Gal 5, Paul is preaching that faith alone is not enough for salvation, but that righteousness (obedience/holiness) is also required.

Worthy of salvation solely based on their own merits apart from the blood of Christ and the righteousness which is of God by faith? (Romans 3:24-28; Philippians 3:9) NO. You error by

Rev 3:4 clearly describes Jesus granting salvation to certain believers who "have not defiled their garments" with unrighteous works (sin/disobedience). In other words, Jesus grants them salvation due to their fath and works (obedience/righteousness/holiness).

You want to sweep this verse under the carpet because it contradicts your false "faith alone" doctrine.

 

[Buzzard3]

In Romans 4:3, Abrahams’ faith was counted to him as righteousness, but does that mean he was righteous (apart from faith) in of himself? NO.

And God tested Abraham's faith by commanding Abraham to sacrifice his son, Isaac. If Abraham disobeyed God's command, would he have remained justified?

What you don't seem to understand is that serious sin (disobedience) can destroy the initial justification/grace gained thru faith. That's why Paul, for example, warns believers (who have been initially justified by faith) of the possibly disastrous consequenes of their sins in Gal 5 and 1Cor 6.

 

[Danthemailman]

If the believers in Gal 5:21 were righteous, Paul would have had no need to warn them of the potentially spiritually-fatal consequences of the their unrighteousness (sin). But Paul is warning ALL believers - including the righteous ones - since righteous believers too can fall into unrighteuosness if they chose to.

False. Those who practice such sins in Galatians 5:19-21 are not genuine believers/those who are born of God.

1 John 3:7 - Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; 8 the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. 9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

Proverbs 24:16 - For a righteous man may fall seven times and rise again, But the wicked shall fall by calamity.

Psalms 37:28 - For the LORD loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever; But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.

So the warning from Paul in Galatians 5:19-21 is necessary because there are genuine Christians and there are “nominal” Christians and it’s not hard to find them mixed together within various Christian churches that ALL claim to be Christian. It’s also not always easy to tell apart the wheat from the tares. Even Judas Iscariot looked like the real deal to the other disciples, yet Jesus knew his heart and said he is a devil! (John 6:70)

To claim that Paul's warning doesn't apply to all believers is ridiculous.

Since you use the term “believer” loosely and don’t seem to understand the difference between genuine believers and make believers, I’m sure it does sound ridiculous to you.

So in Gal 5, Paul is preaching that faith alone is not enough for salvation, but that righteousness (obedience/holiness) is also required.

False. Paul does not preach “type 2 works salvation.” So how much obedience/holiness must we accomplish and “add” as a supplement to Christ’s finished work of redemption in order to “help” Christ save us? Christ’s finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save (genuine) believers. No supplements needed. (Romans 3:24-28)

Paul clearly preaches salvation through faith (rightly understood) in Christ alone. (Acts 13:39; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18; Romans 3:24-28; 4:2-6; 5:1; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9 etc..)

Rev 3:4 clearly describes Jesus granting salvation to certain believers who "have not defiled their garments" with unrighteous works (sin/disobedience). In other words, Jesus grants them salvation due to their fath and works (obedience/righteousness/holiness).

Jesus points out the lifeless state of the church in Sardis - "..you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead." This church may have had a name of being alive, but they were spiritually lifeless. In other words, the church was filled with unsaved people going through the motions of religion who needed to wake up and repent IN CONTRAST with a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their garments; and they will walk with Jesus in white.

*White garments are mentioned elsewhere in Revelation. The church at Laodicea mentions white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed.(Revelation 3:18). The 24 elders wear white garments (Revelation 4:4). The martyrs waiting for God’s judgment are given white robes to wear (Revelation 6:11). The armies appearing with the Messiah also wear white and clean linen (Revelation 19:14). The great multitude of the saved in Revelation 7:14 wear robes made white in the red blood of the Lamb. The color paradox makes the point and implies that the color white stands for God’s people made spiritually pure and justified by Jesus’ blood. That means the few in Sardis who were given white robes had been made right and just before God.

In Revelation 3:5, we read - "He who overcomes I will never blot out his name from the book of life." The "overcomer" mentioned in this letter to Sardis is the Believer/Christian. Compare this with 1 John 5:4: "Everyone who is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world--our faith. So we are saved through faith IN CHRIST ALONE and not by works.

You want to sweep this verse under the carpet because it contradicts your false "faith alone" doctrine.

I’ve swept nothing under the carpet and unlike you, I properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching my conclusion on doctrine. It’s you who sweeps multiple verses under the carpet because they contradict your “salvation by works” doctrine.

 

[Danthemailman]

And God tested Abraham's faith by commanding Abraham to sacrifice his son, Isaac. If Abraham disobeyed God's command, would he have remained justified?

If Abraham would have disobeyed God’s command to sacrifice his son Isaac, then he would have demonstrated a lack of faith, but of course, that was not the case. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.

What you don't seem to understand is that serious sin (disobedience) can destroy the initial justification/grace gained thru faith. That's why Paul, for example, warns believers (who have been initially justified by faith) of the possibly disastrous consequenes of their sins in Gal 5 and 1Cor 6.

Roman Catholic eisegesis.