How are we to explain these "miracles?"

[Neogaia777]

I never asked "why are there miracles?" or "what are the types of miracles?" or even "what is a miracle?"

My question, my ONLY question, which you have avoided like the plague, is and remains:

"How does one determine if a "series of strange coincidences" or "hearing voices" or "Strange dreams" or "signs and wonders in nature, and/or your environment around you" is a miracle or not?"

Just thought I'd try and fill in the blank from my own personal experiences...

God Bless!

 

[Kylie]

But then what is reality.
Quantum Reality

Modern physicists do not have a single picture of "the way the world really is;" instead there are eight ideas of "quantum reality." These eight views of reality are quite different; yet all are considered by leading scientists to be valid, or a least successful in terms of explaining experiments.

Worldviews of Prominent Physicists and Philosophers

• There is no deep reality.
• Reality is created by observation.
• Reality is an undivided wholeness.
• Reality consists of a steadily increasing number of parallel universes.
• The world obeys a non-human kind of reasoning.
• The world is made of ordinary objects.
• Consciousness creates reality.
• The world is twofold, consisting of potentials and actualities

Scientists will admit that quantum theories do not correspond to "common sense"---meaning, the law of cause and effect. The principal features of quantum theory contradict "cause and effect" relationships by assuming that random, spontaneous events can and do occur within a quantified limit (specified by the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle).
The majority of leading modern physicists seriously believe the first view; "There is no deep reality" and claim that there is no objective reality. For them, "physics is not physical, but metaphysical."
Common Sense Science | Quantum Reality

[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], really?

Your argument is, "We can't actually really be sure what reality is, therefore God?"

 

[stevevw]

De Broglie–Bohm theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Keep in mind that there are entirely 'determinist' views of QM, they are simply far less 'popular' than the "standard" version.

Yeah well I' just trying to get my head around reading about it. It seems a particle in the quantum world can be one of many things but is only one of something when you actually looked at. OK that is crazy stuff. I found this short video explains it fairly well.
Quantum Mechanics Explained - YouTube

 

[stevevw]

[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], really?

Your argument is, "We can't actually really be sure what reality is, therefore God?"

No not really, that doesn't follow automatically. But to me the way things are with the quantum world seems to show that there is more to existence than our reality. The way a particle can effect another even when millions of light years apart and how a particle can have many different probabilities seems to relate to God being everywhere at the same time. It certainly speaks of something beyond our reality and more than what we know with relativity.

 

[Heissonear]

I never asked "why are there miracles?" or "what are the types of miracles?" or even "what is a miracle?"

My question, my ONLY question, which you have avoided like the plague, is and remains:

"How does one determine if __________ is a miracle or not?"

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Your question has been answered multiple times fundamentally, that being "How does one determine if something is a Miracle or not?"

Since you put in a "fill in the space" segment then it could be about anything. So it seems you need to give a few specific examples, of which I may say once again I will need more information, for it is the Spirit that bears Witness to the truth, I'm a listener and can then speak from what I've heard.

If I have personally experienced the Miracle, encountering the "event Dynamics and specifics", then I probably already was sensitive to and picked up His Witness during the Event, since He was there and the One doing it.

This brings up a point - unless you are really to be a part of the Miracle, chosen to witness the Miracle, the "physical residuals" are not what one typically goes by. Why? The Miracle is over.

Naturalistic people will probably say no, the Miracle is not over, the arm was changed, look at it, a Miracle happened, it was real! But they do not look at the Miracle for what it is - a display of His Power over the Natural. The Miracle is the substance of Him manifesting Spiritual Supernatural Power; the change in the physical is only the result of a Miracle; the physical residue only shows what happened. The Real Substance, "The Miracle" is gone, it is over.

So many people have posted the need for physical evidence of an almost unending list of items before "they know for sure" it was "a real Miracle", and not a trick, delusion, imagination, psychosis, and so on. This "list of evidence" is proof that "they missed the Miracle" and from the "left over evidence" THINK a Miracle occurred. Their belief is in the residual physical evidence and not in the Miracle Event, Miracle Dynamics. This latter is where the "believe" is to be based. Otherwise someone will always question the Event. It should be known that belief through physical evidence does not remove a root of doubt and unbelief unbelievers have. It takes His Power to remove such from a person.

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[TLK Valentine]

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Your question has been answered multiple times fundamentally, that being "How does one determine if something is a Miracle or not?"

Then humor me -- without the doubletalk, if at all possible...

Since you put in a "fill in the space" segment then it could be about anything. So it seems you need to give a few specific examples, of which I may say once again I will need more information, for it is the Spirit that bears Witness to the truth, I'm a listener and can then speak from what I've heard.

So let's generalize it -- a highly imporbable event occurs -- how does one tell the difference between miracle or coincidence?

If I have personally experienced the Miracle, encountering the "event Dynamics and specifics", then I probably already was sensitive to and picked up His Witness during the Event, since He was there and the One doing it.

In other words, you just know because you're special, and we should take your word for it -- check.

This brings up a point - unless you are really to be a part of the Miracle, chosen to witness the Miracle, the "physical residuals" are not what one typically goes by. Why? The Miracle is over.

So only special people such as yourself can tell what a miracle is or isn't, and the rest of us should take your word for it -- check.

Naturalistic people will probably say no, the Miracle is not over, the arm was changed, look at it, a Miracle happened, it was real! But they do not look at the Miracle for what it is - a display of His Power over the Natural. The Miracle is the substance of Him manifesting Spiritual Supernatural Power; the change in the physical is only the result of a Miracle; the physical residue only shows what happened. The Real Substance, "The Miracle" is gone, it is over.

douobletalk.

So many people have posted the need for physical evidence of an almost unending list of items before "they know for sure" it was "a real Miracle", and not a trick, delusion, imagination, psychosis, and so on. This "list of evidence" is proof that "they missed the Miracle" and from the "left over evidence" THINK a Miracle occurred. Their belief is in the residual physical evidence and not in the Miracle Event, Miracle Dynamics. This latter is where the "believe" is to be based. Otherwise someone will always question the Event. It should be known that belief through physical evidence does not remove a root of doubt and unbelief unbelievers have. It takes His Power to remove such from a person.

It takes His power to make a person special such as yourself, who can tell immediately whether or not a miracle has occurred -- check.

 

[Heissonear]

Then humor me -- without the doubletalk, if at all possible...

So let's generalize it -- a highly imporbable event occurs -- how does one tell the difference between miracle or coincidence?

In other words, you just know because you're special, and we should take your word for it -- check.

So only special people such as yourself can tell what a miracle is or isn't, and the rest of us should take your word for it -- check.

douobletalk.

It takes His power to make a person special such as yourself, who can tell immediately whether or not a miracle has occurred -- check.

.

How many redirecting posts are you going to give and not discuss Him Ruling over the natural? How He demonstrates He Creates out of nothing, like lengthening a deformed arm? Who is like Him? Who lives without Him? Why do people settle for searching physical residuals by posting for more "information"? You act like you are secondary, and cannot find Him nor firsthand meet Him.

 

[TLK Valentine]

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How many redirecting posts are you going to give and not discuss Him Ruling over the natural?

It's going to take more than your say-so to make it worth discussing, regardless of how special you claim to be.

How He demonstrates He Creates out of nothing, like lengthening a deformed arm?

Hoax. And an easy one, at that.

Who is like Him? Who lives without Him? Why do people settle for searching physical residuals by posting for more "information"? You act like you are secondary, and cannot find Him nor firsthand meet Him.

We prefer facts to doubletalk -- sorry if you missed that,

 

[Heissonear]

It's going to take more than your say-so to make it worth discussing, regardless of how special you claim to be.

Hoax. And an easy one, at that.

We prefer facts to doubletalk -- sorry if you missed that,

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Firsthand witnesses through the centuries testify that you present error in labeling Miracles as hoax. But you do not want your little world shattered by finding the Power of God existing amongst us, to you your physical realm world of Dust and deterioration is worth more than the Eternal Realm and meeting Him who has been, who is, and who is to come. We cannot have that happen to your world, can we. Lets keep claiming hoax, tricked, and such about the reality of Miracles to comfort those in unbelief, who enjoy believing lies about Him.

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[TLK Valentine]

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Firsthand witnesses through the centuries testify that you present error in labeling Miracles as hoax.

I didn't call them all hoaxes -- just the one you're trying to pass off.

Just because you think you're too special to be tricked, that doesn't make it so -- smarter people than you have been hoaxed throughout the centuries.

Incidentally, firsthand witnesses saw David Copperfield make the Statue of Liberty disappear... and then put it back. Miracle, or not?

But you do not want your little world shattered by finding the Power of God existing amongst us, to you your physical realm world of Dust and deterioration is worth more than the Eternal Realm and meeting Him who has been, who is, and who is to come. We cannot have that happen to your world, can we. Lets keep claiming hoax, tricked, and such about the reality of Miracles to comfort those in unbelief, who enjoy believing lies about Him.

Whatever you need to make yourself feel special, Heiss.

 

[Kylie]

No not really, that doesn't follow automatically. But to me the way things are with the quantum world seems to show that there is more to existence than our reality. The way a particle can effect another even when millions of light years apart and how a particle can have many different probabilities seems to relate to God being everywhere at the same time. It certainly speaks of something beyond our reality and more than what we know with relativity.

It seems to me like your argument is, "Complicated science stuff, therefore, maybe God is in there."

Seems like God of the Gaps to me...

 

[stevevw]

It seems to me like your argument is, "Complicated science stuff, therefore, maybe God is in there."

Seems like God of the Gaps to me...

No not really. I dont state anything but just pose the question. Complicated science stuff is just how science is sometimes and they have to work all that out by testing and verifying. But while science can say they can test and verify results with our material world doing the same in the quantum world is different. I just wonder if there is an answer to find and if its just beyond what they can ever put a mathematical or scientific solution to. Thats why there are theories like multi universes, string theory, worm holes and holograms ect. They propose these hypothesis because they are needed to fit the things they are seeing with the quantum world and a finely tuned universe for life and the weird way they are seeing how the quantum world is behaving.

 

[Heissonear]

I didn't call them all hoaxes -- just the one you're trying to pass off.

Just because you think you're too special to be tricked, that doesn't make it so -- smarter people than you have been hoaxed throughout the centuries.

Incidentally, firsthand witnesses saw David Copperfield make the Statue of Liberty disappear... and then put it back. Miracle, or not?

Whatever you need to make yourself feel special, Heiss.

Your slant on posts and posters do not bare truth. You give replies that are full of error, and pass error on.

Care to discuss Creative Miracles to educate us? What has to happen in these Power from on High manifestations? Or do you want to speak of error and degrade posters as your objective?

Let's hear it about true Miracles. Touch people who have no clue about what Does Happen all the time by Him. Or do you want to side line such and inject David Copperfield, etc., etc., etc. Your posts are adding up.

Step up and speak forth what He Creatively (Creates out of nothing) still does to and before people!

.

 

[Heissonear]

It seems to me like your argument is, "Complicated science stuff, therefore, maybe God is in there."

Seems like God of the Gaps to me...

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A little wisdom for you to weigh:

It is not good to only lean on and only use your own understanding.

Things not understood should be "shelved" till He brings about understanding.

There is a world of difference between the two. The first any and everyone can do and most people live by. The latter requires Spiritual Maturity and a learning process and way of living that intricately requires Him.

Ultimately, we are to be led by the the Spirit not our head.

And no, get real, He gave us a brain so we know to turn on the light switch when we enter a room, etc.

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[TLK Valentine]

Your slant on posts and posters do not bare truth. You give replies that are full of error, and pass error on.

Jealous?

Care to discuss Creative Miracles to educate us? What has to happen in these Power from on High manifestations? Or do you want to speak of error and degrade posters as your objective?

I think the posters are doing a bang-up job of degrading themselves, actually. The more they try to pass themselves off as special and superior to the rest of us, the sadder they seem.

Let's hear it about true Miracles. Touch people who have no clue about what Does Happen all the time by Him. Or do you want to side line such and inject David Copperfield, etc., etc., etc. Your posts are adding up.

What true miracles? I've been asking for one, and so far, none of the special people have delivered the goods.

Then I offered up one as a a possibility, and all I got was a lot of tap-dancing.

Step up and speak forth what He Creatively (Creates out of nothing) still does to and before people!

Throwing in the towel, and expecting others to do your work for you? How typical.

 

[[serious]]

It is not good to only lean on and only use your own understanding.

...

Ultimately, we are to be led by the the Spirit not our head.

We are not gods, we are men. The choice is not between mans wisdom and God's wisdom, but between man's wisdom and man's foolishness.

 

[TLK Valentine]

We are not gods, we are men. The choice is not between mans wisdom and God's wisdom, but between man's wisdom and man's foolishness.

And sometimes, between man's wisdom and man's hubris.

 

[Kylie]

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A little wisdom for you to weigh:

It is not good to only lean on and only use your own understanding.

Things not understood should be "shelved" till He brings about understanding.

There is a world of difference between the two. The first any and everyone can do and most people live by. The latter requires Spiritual Maturity and a learning process and way of living that intricately requires Him.

Ultimately, we are to be led by the the Spirit not our head.

And no, get real, He gave us a brain so we know to turn on the light switch when we enter a room, etc.

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Circular logic. You are assuming what you want to prove. Reality doesn't work that way.

 

[stevevw]

I checked out the miracles that were associated with the visions in Cairo Egypt in 1968 to 1970. There have been a few of these sightings witnessed by 1/2 million or more. What do you think it is maybe an illusion with the lights or something more than that. There have been a few miracles associated with Lourdes ect as well where people have been cured of cancers and things like Multiple sclerosis ect. Also there are the incorruptible where the body of a holy person never decays. There seems to be one in particular of St Bernadette.
Top 10 Astonishing Miracles - Listverse

http://listverse.com/2007/08/21/top-10-incorrupt-corpses/

It seems that St Bernadette died in 1879 and was exhumed 3 times in 1909, 1919 and 1925. Each time the body still hadn't really decayed. But since then she has had some cosmetic work done being 130 years old. She may have been subject to some mummification. There are other cases that are very interesting. What do others think.

 

[Heissonear]

Circular logic. You are assuming what you want to prove. Reality doesn't work that way.

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You forget to look at the most important parameter! The Work of the Holy Spirit!

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