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How are we to explain these "miracles?"

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Neogaia777

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How do you know that the accounts attributed to Matthew and John were actually written by them?

I read it in a magazine article somewhere, and no not a christian magazine or publication either, (U.S. news, I think it was) that said that due to the determined time and date written they were most likely written by them.
 
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Kylie

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I read it in a magazine article somewhere, and no not a christian magazine or publication either, (U.S. news, I think it was) that said that due to the determined time and date written they were most likely written by them.

Given that we don't actually have the originals, and given that all the evidence that we have suggests that they were first written about 50-70 years after the events they describe, I don't think that this magazine is a proper source of information.
 
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AV1611VET

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There simply isn't any contempory historical records of Jesus.
Why would there be?

With the Romans investing a good chunk of their assets to squelch Christianity before it ever got started, I would imagine it would be the death penalty for anyone having such records in their possession.

In addition, so effective was Saul of Tarsus, that it would be suicide to have anything lying around.

Acts 8:3 As for Saul, he made havock of the church, entering into every house, and haling men and women committed them to prison.
 
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Sayre

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Isn't it a rather strange thing for God to reveal Himself in such a way (through Christ) in an environment where the impact would be minimal? Why do that?
 
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AV1611VET

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Isn't it a rather strange thing for God to reveal Himself in such a way (through Christ) in an environment where the impact would be minimal? Why do that?
The impact wasn't minimal?

God's timing was perfect.

Galatians 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

Three things made the time ripe:

  1. Jewish sacerdotalism instilled the sense of sacrifice.
  2. The Greek languange insured the widest spread of information.
  3. Roman roads made access to all points in the Old World available.
 
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lesliedellow

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There simply isn't any contempory historical records of Jesus.



No, Paula Fredriksen is not a Christian, but she is a New Testament scholar.
 
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bhsmte

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Isn't it a rather strange thing for God to reveal Himself in such a way (through Christ) in an environment where the impact would be minimal? Why do that?

Just one of the many things difficult to reconcile with the Christian story.

God sends someone, that will save all mankind (if people believe in him - Jesus), but then only exposes him to a remote part of the world. And, I have heard many reasons to explain this away, but I have yet to hear one that is anything more than psychological gymnastics at work.
 
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lesliedellow

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Isn't it a rather strange thing for God to reveal Himself in such a way (through Christ) in an environment where the impact would be minimal? Why do that?

I wouldn't exactly say that the impact has been minimal, would you? It would be difficult to think of anybody who has had a greater influence upon the last 2,000 years of world history.
 
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bhsmte

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I wouldn't exactly say that the impact has been minimal, would you? It would be difficult to think of anybody who has had a greater influence upon the course of world history.

Would you admit that the majority of the population had limited or no exposure to Jesus? Would you admit that this is one of the primary reasons people in certain parts of the world practice religions other than Christianity?
 
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TLK Valentine

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Why would there be?

With the Romans investing a good chunk of their assets to squelch Christianity before it ever got started, I would imagine it would be the death penalty for anyone having such records in their possession.

Your imagination is duly noted.

In addition, so effective was Saul of Tarsus, that it would be suicide to have anything lying around.

Acts 8:3 As for Saul, he made havock of the church, entering into every house, and haling men and women committed them to prison.

One must wonder if Saul's zeal comes from his Roman citizenship, His Jewish sensibilities, or something deeper...
 
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HitchSlap

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There's no evidence for this assertion either. Christianity wasn't even a blip on the Roman empire radar. They were mostly concerned with keeping the Jews under their thumb, and didn't have time for upstart "prophets" and the like and it seems they were a dime a dozen popping up everywhere. There is zero extrabiblical sources mentioning Jesus or Paul, although it's generally accepted Paul was a real individual. At any rate, you'd think there be at least some extrabiblical confirmation of a man who supposedly changed the world, yet nary a scant. Makes you go hmmmm....
 
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AV1611VET

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There are extrabiblical sources mentioning Jesus or Paul; and I have a feeling you know that.

But for the record, let's say there weren't.

Would that surprise you?
 
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Heissonear

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In relation to Him on High and His miracles those who are worldly minded seek tangible evidence in the physical. They think they can discern the Spiritual through the natural. The evidence please crowd of atheists on this forum continue down this dark methodology path. What they start with they finish with, Spiritual Barrenness and unbelief.

.

.
 
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Heissonear

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Your words are mere words. You present confusion and error.

One miracle from Jesus overturns your "no god - no spiritual world".

I have witnessed Him, His Spirit, and attesting miracles. Miracles that cannot be explained by the natural world.

You are ignorant of the Spiritual Dynamics that are around us. All you can reply is denial and unbelief. You cannot overturn those who have witnessed miracles. There is no worldly evidence that you could present that could overturned what they have witnessed on earth.

God's Kingdom consists of Power. Miracles attest to this, not men's mere words.
.
 
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HitchSlap

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There are extrabiblical sources mentioning Jesus or Paul; and I have a feeling you know that.

But for the record, let's say there weren't.

Would that surprise you?

No contemporary sources, chief. But I have a feeling you knew that.
 
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HitchSlap

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Your credulity does not impress me.
 
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