How are we justified?

[Waters]

Shalom ImAHebrew,

Long winded? When I go sailing I'll allow you to stand at the stern so you can blow us to shore. I'm joking, I did like reading what you wrote.
I like dumb animals though. You say that Yeshua's sacrifice was to turn us from a life of sin. I basically have the same question for you then. If there was forgiveness before Yeshua's sacrifice, what did his sacrifice do for the Fathers if anything. I am looking at this from B.C.E perspective. Most think as some here do that they were not really forgiven until the sacrifice of Yeshua.
This is assuming that there was forgiveness of sin before Yeshua died, why would it have taken him to die before the graves of the saints were opened (Matt 27:52).

I am basically trying to look at the mechanics of how his sacrifice fits if there was forgiveness already. While this could have turned a sinner from their sin, what about those like Abraham, who already had faith in HaShem even if it was a dumb animal who turned them.

Shalom

 

[koilias]

There's also one important thing to realize in discussing the mechanics of sacrificial atonement.

The temple sacrifices only cover over the sins committed against HaShem. They don't atone for the sins we commit against others...

Shalom

 

[yod]

I am basically trying to look at the mechanics of how his sacrifice fits if there was forgiveness already. While this could have turned a sinner from their sin, what about those like Abraham, who already had faith in HaShem even if it was a dumb animal who turned them.

Shalom

all of your questions in this regard are best answered in the Book of Hebrews chapters 9 & 10

The temple sacrifices only cover over the sins committed against HaShem. They don't atone for the sins we commit against others...

I believe that is what the "peace offering" was for.

it was an offering made to the Lord (because ultimately it was a sin against Him) but was to be eaten among brothers,

 

[koilias]

I believe that is what the "peace offering" was for.

it was an offering made to the Lord (because ultimately it was a sin against Him) but was to be eaten among brothers,

Perhaps, but as far as I'm aware the only sins that can be atoned for with sacrifice are those which put one at fault directly with HaShem (in swearing falsely for example)...The onus is still on us to make peace with our brothers and/or sisters, in fact all mankind. The sin won't be forgiven otherwise.

 

[Andre]

Shalom.

Pray4Israel & Andre

Q4U - If sins could be forgiven before Yeshua arrived, what then would be the need to take the punishment of your sin, or be your sacrifice? Andre - is there a difference between atonement and being forgiven? Yeshua clearly forgave sinners before he died. For what purpose could they not reach heaven?

Shalom.

This is how I see it, before the sacrifice of Yeshua the sin's of men (believers in the Messiah to come) were forgiven, but they hadn't been paid off yet, the sins were still in record, but the believers/followers of G-d where not condemmed they were waiting for the complete payment in full that happened at the time of Yeshua's sacrifice, if there was by any means complete forgiveness of sin before His death then he died in vain.

 

[yod]

)...The onus is still on us to make peace with our brothers and/or sisters, in fact all mankind. The sin won't be forgiven otherwise.

Of course that is correct...I didn't mean to imply otherwise because there are specific remedies in the Torah that have to be fulfilled before the peace offering....and honestly I'm not sure if the peace offering was done for this specific reason. It was as much a question as a comment.