Hoping for some real fellowship

[BlackSab]

Hi everyone. I'm new to this web site, and this is my first posting here also. I was recommended to come here by a very nice, understanding fellow.

I was posting previously on the Pentecostal site. I was in that demonination for 20 years, and ended up leaving a wreck. My faith was nearly destroyed, I haven't been to church for years and I have been harbouring such hate and anger towards the church and Christians.

But I've been slowly getting better. I only now hate the Pentecostal Christians, heheheheh. Sorry, black humour, can't help it. lol.

But seriously, I went on their forum site for some explanations of things. I told my story in one particular thread, and then things started turning nasty when this one particular character decided I was a Satan worshipper, simply because I enjoyed my secular music, hence my user logo, short for 'Black Sabbath', my favourite band.

Mine is a long story but I'll give you a very brief one. My family converted from Catholic to Pentecostal. In time, with all the hype and emotion, it became a part of me. I was fanatical charasmatic, judgemental, dogmatic and dead against the "world." I became ultra conservative and gave up my secular music, ( Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple etc ) and read, listened and watched exclusively Christian material.

But in the last 5 years, I have been through personal and spiritual hell. The wheels fell of my beloved Pentecostalism as I got ripped off, abused, neglected, lied to by fellow church members and right up to my pastors. I was in my last church for 10 years, giving generously and playing drums whilst working full time shift work. The one time in all that long period when I raised an objection about a church financial matter, I was told that I am not a member and have no right to comment. The very last service I attended this same pastor told my, when I made a suggestion about the person replacing me on the drums, that I wasn't a muso, and again have no right to comment.

I felt like I was under some curse. Nothing but trouble with all the fellow charasmatics. My faith was being destroyed. 2 years after I left, I decided to forgive and forget and called my ex-pastors up. I told them that I would be in their area the next month, giving an obvious hint that I would have loved to visit them. They didn't get the hint. I said this a few times, and they said nothing. So I finally said we'll have to catch up when I get there. His response, " we'll meet in a cafe!"

All my hatred and anger came back. A cafe, like I'm some sort of ex-serial murderer, and after 10 years serving.

Something snapped in me. My ultra conservativeness just fell off me, simply because I could clearly see now that the most abusive, unloving, hurtful and rude so Christians were also the most conservative ones, who didn't participate in secular activities, wouldn't dream of ever having an occasional social drink, never would go into a club, etc.

I just saw that all this external "do not touch, do not handle" philosophy of these people made them no better. In fact, all this denying of everything made them far worse than the average non believer.

I don't mean to be sacrilegous or blasphemous, but it would not be unfair of me to say that if I had been a member of a Satanic church for that length of time serving in that way, I would have in the end being better treated. My God, the way Christians, right up to the leaders can be so evil, far out does the average non believer.

And so after all this disappointment, I had a desire to return to my secular music. I saw that all this exclusive Christian stuff made people not one tiny bit better, and something new and deep in my heart said that my secular wouldn't make me any worse.

I will admit that everyone on the Pentecostal forum was nice, except for this one awful person, who just kept affirming that I'm now a child of the Devil. He even said that Black Sabbath is the greatest evil the world has ever known! That's saying something, don't you think? Worse than the inquisitions, holocaust, genocide, communism, Nazism, black slavery.

And so if you all agree that I'm some demonic satanist, then please someone please just say so diplomatically and I will leave. I wouldn't want my stench corrupting anyone else.

I am close to quitting my faith, I have had just about enough of Christians. But if you're nice, I'll go in peace.

Bless you.

 

[5solas]

I am close to quitting my faith, I have had just about enough of Christians.

Hi
It is a shame and a great problem how far too many Christians treat each other - I think it's because the love in many will grow cold (Mt 24:12).

... It's great that you have arrived here! Welcome! But don't bother so much about your own problems (and the behaviour of God's staff) in the first place - keep your eyes firmly fixed on Jesus Christ, Lord and Saviour - think about Him, occupy yourself with Him - that's far the best thing to do and then you will discover what things glorify Him most (that's what it is all about, isn't it?)

If you are a true believer you cannot quit your faith - impossible. God will keep you. Perhaps it won't be easy and from what you described it really hasn't been easy for you - but He is the faithful one:

1Co 1:9 God is faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.
Joh 10:28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.

Joh 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

Joh 6:47 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.

God bless!

 

[BBAS 64]

Hi everyone. I'm new to this web site, and this is my first posting here also. I was recommended to come here by a very nice, understanding fellow.

I was posting previously on the Pentecostal site. I was in that demonination for 20 years, and ended up leaving a wreck. My faith was nearly destroyed, I haven't been to church for years and I have been harbouring such hate and anger towards the church and Christians.

But I've been slowly getting better. I only now hate the Pentecostal Christians, heheheheh. Sorry, black humour, can't help it. lol.

But seriously, I went on their forum site for some explanations of things. I told my story in one particular thread, and then things started turning nasty when this one particular character decided I was a Satan worshipper, simply because I enjoyed my secular music, hence my user logo, short for 'Black Sabbath', my favourite band.

Mine is a long story but I'll give you a very brief one. My family converted from Catholic to Pentecostal. In time, with all the hype and emotion, it became a part of me. I was fanatical charasmatic, judgemental, dogmatic and dead against the "world." I became ultra conservative and gave up my secular music, ( Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple etc ) and read, listened and watched exclusively Christian material.

But in the last 5 years, I have been through personal and spiritual hell. The wheels fell of my beloved Pentecostalism as I got ripped off, abused, neglected, lied to by fellow church members and right up to my pastors. I was in my last church for 10 years, giving generously and playing drums whilst working full time shift work. The one time in all that long period when I raised an objection about a church financial matter, I was told that I am not a member and have no right to comment. The very last service I attended this same pastor told my, when I made a suggestion about the person replacing me on the drums, that I wasn't a muso, and again have no right to comment.

I felt like I was under some curse. Nothing but trouble with all the fellow charasmatics. My faith was being destroyed. 2 years after I left, I decided to forgive and forget and called my ex-pastors up. I told them that I would be in their area the next month, giving an obvious hint that I would have loved to visit them. They didn't get the hint. I said this a few times, and they said nothing. So I finally said we'll have to catch up when I get there. His response, " we'll meet in a cafe!"

All my hatred and anger came back. A cafe, like I'm some sort of ex-serial murderer, and after 10 years serving.

Something snapped in me. My ultra conservativeness just fell off me, simply because I could clearly see now that the most abusive, unloving, hurtful and rude so Christians were also the most conservative ones, who didn't participate in secular activities, wouldn't dream of ever having an occasional social drink, never would go into a club, etc.

I just saw that all this external "do not touch, do not handle" philosophy of these people made them no better. In fact, all this denying of everything made them far worse than the average non believer.

I don't mean to be sacrilegous or blasphemous, but it would not be unfair of me to say that if I had been a member of a Satanic church for that length of time serving in that way, I would have in the end being better treated. My God, the way Christians, right up to the leaders can be so evil, far out does the average non believer.

And so after all this disappointment, I had a desire to return to my secular music. I saw that all this exclusive Christian stuff made people not one tiny bit better, and something new and deep in my heart said that my secular wouldn't make me any worse.

I will admit that everyone on the Pentecostal forum was nice, except for this one awful person, who just kept affirming that I'm now a child of the Devil. He even said that Black Sabbath is the greatest evil the world has ever known! That's saying something, don't you think? Worse than the inquisitions, holocaust, genocide, communism, Nazism, black slavery.

And so if you all agree that I'm some demonic satanist, then please someone please just say so diplomatically and I will leave. I wouldn't want my stench corrupting anyone else.

I am close to quitting my faith, I have had just about enough of Christians. But if you're nice, I'll go in peace.

Bless you.

Good Day, BlackSab

In reading your post brought back memories of what I went though at a Penacostal Church that I was saved in. I can understand your feelings because I have been there and they do run deep.

You have had enough of christians , you are quitting Faith? Then why are you here on a Christain web site asking questions with reguard to Faith?

I am not making excuses for these people that have hurt you, what makes you think Christians are perfect? The pastor of that church may put forth a staw man of him self as perfect. I have news for him he is not, only Christ himself is!

I wish I had more time to share I have tried to share some of my thoughts has I work though the same problems, Turn you eyes to Jesus the author and finisher of your Faith.

Rom 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:


My He bless you!

Bill

 

[eutychus]

BlackSab,

Sorry to hear that you have been abused by legalism and man-made law. Though it's prominent in some denominations more than others, hopefully you won't encounter it as harshly in the church you are currently attending.

A lot of times people who rail against secular music are going on prejudice, and over-emphasize its power. Half the people who claim Black Sabbath is directly from Satan obviously haven't read their lyrics, or studied the band. I won't say they were altar boys, and I definitely won't say that they didn't stay away from thinking about the occult, but I can't fathom how something like "Fluff" could cause me to build an altar and sacrifice a pig to the Prince of Darkness.

Welcome to the forum.

 

[5solas]

A lot of times people who rail against secular music are going on prejudice, and over-emphasize its power.

that's true - and I would not want to scrutinize the classical music - one probably would be quite surprised...

The whole discussion reminds me of 1Cor 10

(1Co 10:31 So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.)

 

[oworm]

Im so glad and thrilled that you took the time to post on our forum.
You mentioned on a previous post on another forum that you had been impressed by a presbyterian friend! Well,some of our members here at SR are Presbyterians and some are Baptist but the thing that unites us is that we realise we are nothing more than sinners saved by Gods glorious grace and mercy and that there is nothing we can do to merit Gods favour. My prayer for you is that you will find God speaking to you as you interact and have fellowship with us. God bless you my friend

 

[FreeGrace]

Hello Blacksab,

Welcome to SR what you will find here is we are ALL sinners saved by Gods Grace alone. I was sorry to hear how you have been treated in the past.I pray you will find a church where your faith will be fed and built up glorying in Christ alone.
May Gods peace be with you

 

[Tinkerbell222222]

Hiya!

I'm sorry about what has happened to you...Life can be hard sometimes, and people, and all too often Christians, can be mean. I have a question though, why are you thinking of giving up your faith? Is it because of what others have done? Don't judge God based on the actions of those who claim to follow Him--we're sinners, although we've been given grace, and do make mistakes. God, on the other hand, does not...He is perfect in every way. Don't give up on God because of what someone who says that they follow Him says or does, look at who He is and what He does.

that's not to say that we don't have a responsibility to present the image of Christ to the world--we do.

I pray that you continue to seek after God and that you will find fellowship with other believers.

 

[BlackSab]

Good Day, BlackSab

In reading your post brought back memories of what I went though at a Penacostal Church that I was saved in. I can understand your feelings because I have been there and they do run deep.

You have had enough of christians , you are quitting Faith? Then why are you here on a Christain web site asking questions with reguard to Faith?

I am not making excuses for these people that have hurt you, what makes you think Christians are perfect? The pastor of that church may put forth a staw man of him self as perfect. I have news for him he is not, only Christ himself is!

I wish I had more time to share I have tried to share some of my thoughts has I work though the same problems, Turn you eyes to Jesus the author and finisher of your Faith.

Rom 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:


My He bless you!

Bill

Hi to everyone and thank you so much for all your kind and loving posts. I really appreciate it. Nice for a change for someone to say something nice to you.

I have put this quote in because many times I have been told by people to fix your eyes on Jesus. Christians are not Jesus, they say, and pastors and leaders are not Jesus, and so of course they will make mistakes and do wrong, just like you ( I ) will. They're only human, only Jesus was ever perfect.

Now I do understand this, and I'm not disputing this, but what I don't understand and dispute with as that I simply don't expect fellow Christians and especially pastors and leaders, to be doing the magnitude of the things I have seen people do. What I'm saying is this. Sure, we'll all now and then make mistakes, but total and complete unlovingness, greed for money, slander, use and abuse, unappreciativeness, exploitation, lies etc, I'm sorry, but I don't accept this as well they're just human.

Doesn't the Bible say about standards for Christians, and especially leaders? They're to be sober, not hungry for money, able to deal with all gently and etc. The type of things I have experienced are no excuse for any Christian, and especially a Pastor. When a person comes out of a church despising the church,and the name of Christ because of such hurtful experiences, these are not just the imperfections we are all prone to.

Or put it another way. Take as an example, 2 people, let's say for argument they're both mechanics. One has been a mechanic for 30 years, and has progressed to servicing expensive prestige vehicles. And one has only finished his trade a couple one year ago. Both will make mistakes. But both will not make the same type of mistake. The junior one will still sometimes make elementary mistakes, very basic and silly. The experienced one hasn't made that type of mistake for decades. And if the junior one does make a really silly obvious mistake, in his case it's acceptable. But it's not for the other guy.

I'm sorry, but when people are leading and teaching others, I just can't accept this sort of totally evil behaviour as merely mistakes as we're all human. This doesn't cut it. God has clear and higher standards for his leaders, and we should expect the same. Sure, even pastors will hurt us from time to time, but the ones that continue to do so, never admit they're wrong, hold it against you for years, as I put in my post, well they are not pastor material, and unacceptable for their position.

And that's not my opinion, but God's.

Again, thanks to all.

 

[5solas]

God has clear and higher standards for his leaders, and we should expect the same. Sure, even pastors will hurt us from time to time, but the ones that continue to do so, never admit they're wrong, hold it against you for years, as I put in my post, well they are not pastor material, and unacceptable for their position.

... and they will be judged more severely - but we must be careful not to be cought in the devil's trap! The best thing to do in your case (IMHO): forgive, pray, move on

 

[oworm]

Hi to everyone and thank you so much for all your kind and loving posts.

Its an honour for us to be able to try and minister to you!

I have put this quote in because many times I have been told by people to fix your eyes on Jesus. Christians are not Jesus, they say, and pastors and leaders are not Jesus, and so of course they will make mistakes and do wrong, just like you ( I ) will. They're only human, only Jesus was ever perfect

Now I do understand this, and I'm not disputing this, but what I don't understand and dispute with as that I simply don't expect fellow Christians and especially pastors and leaders, to be doing the magnitude of the things I have seen people do. What I'm saying is this. Sure, we'll all now and then make mistakes, but total and complete unlovingness, greed for money, slander, use and abuse, unappreciativeness, exploitation, lies etc, I'm sorry, but I don't accept this as well they're just human.Doesn't the Bible say about standards for Christians, and especially leaders? They're to be sober, not hungry for money, able to deal with all gently and etc. The type of things I have experienced are no excuse for any Christian, and especially a Pastor.

I absolutely agree with you on this.Scripture is clear that overseers and those in authority are to be "above reproach" (1 Tim 3:1-6) and "blameless" (Titus 1:5-7)

When a person comes out of a church despising the church,and the name of Christ because of such hurtful experiences, these are not just the imperfections we are all prone to.

Im sure you probably dont mean what you say about despising the name of Christ as im aware from your words that what you have been through has been at the hands of men and not God!

Or put it another way. Take as an example, 2 people, let's say for argument they're both mechanics. One has been a mechanic for 30 years, and has progressed to servicing expensive prestige vehicles. And one has only finished his trade a couple one year ago. Both will make mistakes. But both will not make the same type of mistake. The junior one will still sometimes make elementary mistakes, very basic and silly. The experienced one hasn't made that type of mistake for decades. And if the junior one does make a really silly obvious mistake, in his case it's acceptable. But it's not for the other guy.

Thats a good analogy and in line with what Paul said in 1 Tim 3:6.

I'm sorry, but when people are leading and teaching others, I just can't accept this sort of totally evil behaviour as merely mistakes as we're all human. This doesn't cut it. God has clear and higher standards for his leaders, and we should expect the same. Sure, even pastors will hurt us from time to time, but the ones that continue to do so, never admit they're wrong, hold it against you for years, as I put in my post, well they are not pastor material, and unacceptable for their position.

Mistakes are usually unintentional. What you have experienced seems to me to be nothing less than self appointed "pastors" and "elders" who have a personal agenda which isnt in line with the will of God. I may be wrong but im basing my observations on what you have told us and also on my own past experiences of those who feel they have an anointing from God which renders them unaccountable to fellow believers.


It may be the case that God is infact in all this and is drawing you away from what you thought was genuine and leading you to a deeper experience of Himself.
The very fact that you have come to CF looking for answers and have found a similar attitude akin to what you experienced in your church, may; in a negative sense, be evidence that God is calling you "out of" and "into" something else.
So much of your experience has been about negativity :"Dont do this" "Dont listen to that" etc etc. "Dont do" Christianity misses the whole concept of the gains of knowing Christ and the freedom and liberty of grace! What you've experienced is what i term "Restrictive theology" or Servile fear that if you fall out of line your in danger of severe judgement. The bible speaks of the fear of God as the beggining of wisdom, but its filial fear which doesnt want to offend God on account of his love and not his judgement.
Can i suggest that you take up your bible and read through Pauls letter to the Romans. Its probably the best commentary you will get on what the Christian life should be!

 

[5solas]

It may be the case that God is infact in all this and is drawing you away from what you thought was genuine and leading you to a deeper experience of Himself.
The very fact that you have come to CF looking for answers and have found a similar attitude akin to what you experienced in your church, may; in a negative sense, be evidence that God is calling you "out of" and "into" something else.
So much of your experience has been about negativity :"Dont do this" "Dont listen to that" etc etc. "Dont do" Christianity misses the whole concept of the gains of knowing Christ and the freedom and liberty of grace! What you've experienced is what i term "Restrictive theology" or Servile fear that if you fall out of line your in danger of severe judgement. The bible speaks of the fear of God as the beggining of wisdom, but its filial fear which doesnt want to offend God on account of his love and not his judgement.
Can i suggest that you take up your bible and read through Pauls letter to the Romans. Its probably the best commentary you will get on what the Christian life should be!

... thanks, that's very helpful and I think you have just given us a very good summary