Homosexuality

[Percivale]

I have limited experience with homosexuals, so here are some theories and thoughts I'd like feedback on.

What makes people homosexual--I don't think anyone was born that way; I don't think anyone is born with sexual attractions of any kind. I think they develop through childhood experiences and then are cemented at puberty. So those who don't have good friends and role models of their sex in childhood, or who don't fit in well, will identify with their own sex less and thus be more attracted to it ("opposites attract"). So its not a choice, but is a result of negative things.

Since same sex attraction stems from feeling different, lacking role models, or being left out, homosexuals tend to feel insecure and struggle with self acceptance more than people on average, and that's the main reason the topic becomes so emotional and the movement is so hard on anyone that believes the lifestyle is sin. Those who drink alcohol or are promiscuous don't accuse people of hate crimes or discrimination who call those things sin. But if someone has trouble accepting himself, he'll be more hurt if someone else doesn't accept him, and may react with more anger. That cows others into supporting him sometimes.

The Bible seems pretty clear in calling it sin. That is, only the sex act. Emotional love for others is encouraged, and sexual attraction is temptation, not sin. A celibate person with same sex attraction should be given at least as much acceptance and respect as a heterosexual, and more support and understanding. Homophobia is a real problem, and we should work toward overcoming it.

How we have sex or are attracted should not be the core of our identity. We shouldn't let it define us or how we see others.

 

[Marius27]

I have limited experience with homosexuals, so here are some theories and thoughts I'd like feedback on.

What makes people homosexual--I don't think anyone was born that way;

Sexual Orientation is hardwired at birth. The gay brain is physically wired differently. Science supports this. Nobody chooses who they're attracted to. You either are or you aren't.

 

[GenetoJean]

Subscribing for as long as the thread lasts.

 

[Kristen.NewCreation]

ADMIN HAT ON​

This thread has been closed for staff review.

Update: This thread has been cleaned and is being moved from the Ethics & Morality forum to the Non-Denominational forum.

​

ADMIN HAT OFF​

 

[retlaw]

Sexual Orientation is hardwired at birth. The gay brain is physically wired differently. Science supports this. Nobody chooses who they're attracted to. You either are or you aren't.

I won't speak for all Christians but I do not believe this to be true at all. I do not believe God created any of us with some program in our brain that forces us to sin. It's a choice we all make. I believe the idea that they are born that way is a lie told by Satan to keep people from resisting their sin. It would be no different than if I decided I was hard wired to cheat on my wife so it must be ok.

 

[BryanW92]

Sexual Orientation is hardwired at birth. The gay brain is physically wired differently. Science supports this. Nobody chooses who they're attracted to. You either are or you aren't.

So, its a brain abnormality?

Here's the logic on that. We are hardwired to reproduce. That is essential to continuation of the species. So, if a gay person is hardwired to engage in non-productive sex, then they are a nonviable mutation. That is also science.

I think that everyone is a sinner and everyone has a favorite sin. The practicing homosexual just chooses to be defined by his or her favorite sin, and our humanist culture enables that behavior. Culture celebrates that behavior precisely because it is a deviant behavior that flies in the face of normalcy.

Science also says that arsonists, pedophiles, and serial killers are hardwired differently. Science says that porn addicts have had their brains rewired. Do any of those throw Pride Parades? Are any denominations considering ordaining those people?

 

[ForJesusChrist]

I guess Satan is doing something to these people.

 

[Paradoxum]

So, its a brain abnormality?

Here's the logic on that. We are hardwired to reproduce. That is essential to continuation of the species. So, if a gay person is hardwired to engage in non-productive sex, then they are a nonviable mutation. That is also science.

Why does that matter? If someone doesn't reproduce, that's okay. Even some straight people don't reproduce, by choice or circumstance. Some gay people do have children too.

I think that everyone is a sinner and everyone has a favorite sin. The practicing homosexual just chooses to be defined by his or her favorite sin, and our humanist culture enables that behavior. Culture celebrates that behavior precisely because it is a deviant behavior that flies in the face of normalcy.

Being gay isn't bad though. It doesn't harm anyone, and they are in a loving committed relationship. Everyone's happy and no one is violated.

Science also says that arsonists, pedophiles, and serial killers are hardwired differently. Science says that porn addicts have had their brains rewired. Do any of those throw Pride Parades? Are any denominations considering ordaining those people?

No, but the reason isn't because there's a brain problem. The problem is that they harm people. Well not porn addicts.

 

[BryanW92]

Why does that matter? If someone doesn't reproduce, that's okay. Even some straight people don't reproduce, by choice or circumstance. Some gay people do have children too.

It matters because you want to use "science" prove that homosexuality is normal. If you want to use "science", then you have to use all of science. The scientific purpose of mating (coupling) is to reproduce and protect the product of that reproduction.

Don't reproduce and Can't reproduce are totally different things. The first is a choice and the second is a biological mandate . By definition, a gay couple cannot reproduce. They can bring in a third person (in person, by surrogacy, or by sperm donation) but the gay couple cannot reproduce.

Homosexuality used to be defined as mental disease (i.e. "hardwired wrong") but the APA bowed to pressure from the gay lobby (mostly closeted gay psychologists) to reclassify it as a lifestyle choice that is not a brain abnormality. After that, people began to see it as a poor lifestyle choice (during the AIDS epidemic in the gay community), so the gay lobby got back on the "different wiring" approach again, only this time they declared that it is a normal, but different set of wires.

 

[Paradoxum]

It matters because you want to use "science" prove that homosexuality is normal. If you want to use "science", then you have to use all of science. The scientific purpose of mating (coupling) is to reproduce and protect the product of that reproduction.

There isn't a purpose in science. There are descriptions of what happens. ie: penis vaginal sex tends to lead to pregnancy (depending on other factors too).

Don't reproduce and Can't reproduce are totally different things. The first is a choice and the second is a biological mandate

Man-date, hehe.

By definition, a gay couple cannot reproduce. They can bring in a third person (in person, by surrogacy, or by sperm donation) but the gay couple cannot reproduce.

I agree, but that doesn't make is wrong.

Homosexuality used to be defined as mental disease (i.e. "hardwired wrong") but the APA bowed to pressure from the gay lobby (mostly closeted gay psychologists) to reclassify it as a lifestyle choice that is not a brain abnormality. After that, people began to see it as a poor lifestyle choice (during the AIDS epidemic in the gay community), so the gay lobby got back on the "different wiring" approach again, only this time they declared that it is a normal, but different set of wires.

You think it's a conspiracy, while I (and the experts) don't think homosexuality is a mental disease. I don't see why it's a problem.

 

[tremble]

man-date... lol sorry Bryan but seriously, that was kinda funny.

I thought the op was nicely worded. Love isn't wrong. Feeling attraction for the same sex isn't wrong, just as fantasizing about stealing a pizza isn't wrong.

The wrongness comes when we choose to act on our temptations. I don't think God will condemn a celibate gay just for feeling attracted to someone he/she shouldn't be attracted to. If that is the case then a great many heterosexuals will be facing the same judgment.

I don't know if people are born gay or are influenced to be gay at an early age. I've talked to gay people who have expressed both scenarios as their origin story for why they feel the way they do. There are many cases of people being born with with abnormalities.

However, I suspect that its more likely to be early childhood influence which causes same-sex attraction to one another. They won't remember those influences and because it happened at such a young age they feel as though its something that they must have been born with.
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[Omena]

Do any of those throw Pride Parades? Are any denominations considering ordaining those people?

I notice, Bryan, that you like to bring up the issue of pride parades when making arguments against homosexuals, and for the most part I agree with you that a parade to flaunt pride about ANY sin is bad. However, I wonder if you've considered the fact that not ALL gay people participate in pride parades. Some gay people keep to themselves a lot, and in fact many are afraid to "come out of the closet". I wonder what your feelings are toward them, because I know for myself, I find it hard to condemn them when I too have hard time being honest about my sins and my struggles.

 

[Andrea411]

I have limited experience with homosexuals, so here are some theories and thoughts I'd like feedback on.

What makes people homosexual--I don't think anyone was born that way; I don't think anyone is born with sexual attractions of any kind. I think they develop through childhood experiences and then are cemented at puberty. So those who don't have good friends and role models of their sex in childhood, or who don't fit in well, will identify with their own sex less and thus be more attracted to it ("opposites attract"). So its not a choice, but is a result of negative things.

Since same sex attraction stems from feeling different, lacking role models, or being left out, homosexuals tend to feel insecure and struggle with self acceptance more than people on average, and that's the main reason the topic becomes so emotional and the movement is so hard on anyone that believes the lifestyle is sin. Those who drink alcohol or are promiscuous don't accuse people of hate crimes or discrimination who call those things sin. But if someone has trouble accepting himself, he'll be more hurt if someone else doesn't accept him, and may react with more anger. That cows others into supporting him sometimes.

The Bible seems pretty clear in calling it sin. That is, only the sex act. Emotional love for others is encouraged, and sexual attraction is temptation, not sin. A celibate person with same sex attraction should be given at least as much acceptance and respect as a heterosexual, and more support and understanding. Homophobia is a real problem, and we should work toward overcoming it.

How we have sex or are attracted should not be the core of our identity. We shouldn't let it define us or how we see others.

I had three siblings that are homosexual. One has passed away from AIDS, before he passed, he accepted the lord and walked in celibacy.
I have another brother who is a complete pervert... no details, I haven't seen him in over 10 years and have no desire to. I pray for him.
My sister is a wonderful person, giving and I pray for her continually. Recently she was helping me paint and she said something about the Lord, I told her I was always afraid to approach her bc of the whole 'gay issue'.... she said "don't talk to me about that Jesus". IDK all she thinks or has heard about what the church thinks, I assured her that the Lord loves her and that often what people hear about the Lord is like someone talking about someone for years and bad mouthing them, then you meet them and find out they were really very nice and nothing like what you'd heard. I left it there... she had closed down.

My father was a pedophile, my older brothers continued what they'd learned from him... I can't see how anyone would hold it against someone who had been abused from the time they were toddlers... it is no wonder they are messed up... through no fault of their own. I want my sister to know the Lord, I want to reach out to her and tell her how much the Lord loves her... BUT I don't want to deal with the BUT!!! I simply don't know how and I can't compromise Christ. Yet I know He loves her.... it is difficult... pray the Lord give me wisdom and revelation, andrea

 

[tremble]

Wow, that's a powerful testimony Andrea. thanks for sharing it.

 

[crixus]

I won't speak for all Christians but I do not believe this to be true at all. I do not believe God created any of us with some program in our brain that forces us to sin. It's a choice we all make. I believe the idea that they are born that way is a lie told by Satan to keep people from resisting their sin. It would be no different than if I decided I was hard wired to cheat on my wife so it must be ok.

Right on! And thanks for not bowing to that PC mumbo jumbo (lies).

 

[tremble]

Right on! And thanks for not bowing to that PC mumbo jumbo (lies).

Do you think there is anything you can agree with from those people who are apparently talking mumbo jumbo?

I think the atmosphere of this thread has been fairly good so far despite some posters already disagreeing with one another.

I'm sure if you were to voice your concerns in a positive way, that others would be fine to address them also in a positive way. What do you think about that?

 

[Andrea411]

Do you think there is anything you can agree with from those people who are apparently talking mumbo jumbo?

I think the atmosphere of this thread has been fairly good so far despite some posters already disagreeing with one another.

I'm sure if you were to voice your concerns in a positive way, that others would be fine to address them also in a positive way. What do you think about that?

How do we as Christians with our present understanding of scripture write positively about homosexuality? I don't know. I only know that when you know someone who is gay and loves the Lord it really matters. My brother said, the Lord delivered him from homosexuality but gave him nothing, asexuality. Before he passed he had asked Jesus to be his Savior and found out a few months later that he had AIDS. He said when he got the diagnosis, the first words out of his mouth were "thank God I'm going home". This was when AIDS had first appeared and there was little hope and no quality of life but he lived for 5-6 years and grew in the Lord. He died well, although I can't say he ever found any happiness in this world. Life is difficult when your very center, your formative years are so twisted. For those of us who are blessed with having no significant handicaps, for us to judge others is just plain ghoulish. There are children all over the world being raised right now as sex slaves. From birth they are taken and trained in the art of sex and sold, some even infants, for pedophiles or into secretive countries where sex slavery is considered culturally 'legal'.
How do we judge those people if and when they hear the gospel, but if they never hear the gospel, how will God judge them?
I have to see homosexuality as an aberration, like being born blind. You have to deal with what you have. It is not 'the perfect' but we are talking about human beings made in the image of God and we can judge or wish till we're blue and it won't help anyone.
Our churches are full of perfect people, ugh... it is so sad. Where are the hurting, the lost, the developmentally challenged, the physically handicapped. Our churches should be full of these people but they are only the over flow from families that go to church. They are not sought or truly wanted.
I want a church that preaches the gospel with compassion and asks people that are homosexual to understand what we read in the scriptures but we honestly don't know everything the Lord has or why He does what He does, so we will love you where you are and let you judge for yourself what the scriptures say. BUT be honest, there is not a one of us that can fulfill all righteousness in thought and deed. Not a one of us that doesn't need to ask for forgiveness on a daily basis. Why are homosexuals treated any differently? They are one of us. Sinners in need of a Savior.
When we witness to people the gospel of Jesus Christ, would anyone hear us if we told them before hand, you'll have to give up everything. But its true for all of us. We must be willing to give up everything. Most of us learn that as we grow into Him. But would we have followed Him if we knew before hand, that we might have to lay down our lives for Him. And when we come to that realization, it is a personal moment with the Lord. Not a teaching, or a prayer said in church but a time when you know with all your heart, that you do anything He asked... sell it all, give it all or die for Him.
So we approach homosexuals, who already think Christians hate them and say well you'll have to be something different or your a reprobate and not wanted in this place. What kind of a message is that to another human being that doesn't know the Lord.
Instead we might say, IDK why or how but I'm going to struggle with you if you'll struggle with me...

God bless, andrea

 

[RBPerry]

It is a fact that homosexuality is a sin. It is also a fact that some homosexuals are gay from birth. Those who dispute that haven't studied the research that has been done in this area.
Example is twins separated at birth, both becoming homosexuals. The studies that have been done weren't done to support political correctness but to understand the sexual orientation. There are also many that become homosexuals due to many social reasons.
I have questioned generational sin as possibly being a factor, but that is pure speculation.
As a Christian I'm to love all people, that doesn't mean I condone their sin. I think we must have compassion for all people. I believe we need to accept homosexuals into our congregations with the understanding that although we can not condone their sexual orientation, we can love them and lead them to Christ.

 

[peterandrewj]

Were you born a servant of sin? Were you shaped by sin? To understand homosexuality I think you need to understand yourself.

Prejudice, intolerance, bigotry is not of God. As you use God to justify your feelings, remember the mercy Jesus showed you. You'll have to humble yourself to reflect it.

 

[Loudmouth]

It is a fact that homosexuality is a sin.

It is a fact that eating pork is a sin in some religions.

It is a fact that wearing clothes of mixed fabrics is a sin in some religions.

Food for thought.