Homosexuality

interested in life · Jun 30, 2010

skip, dont bother mate.i reckon stop talking to the pro gay community here,then they would probably leave.Nobody to argue with.Plus theres far more interesting things with regards to the bible to read and discuss.
threads that only have the "pro" view.Would be over in a page or two.I say silence is the only weapon we have.if somebody cant get the fact its wrong after 1 zillion threads then best to shrug and say thanks.

Dionysiou · Jun 30, 2010

aside from the biblical statements such as "it is an abomination" If any man or woman is unsure as to wether God accepts homosexuals as good, they should just ask God about it. Simple as that, if you truly believe in your heart that it is ok then you wouldnt be asking these sort of questions. If you know it is wrong, well i guess your just confused. If you dont believe in God, well, theres no point in any christians laying a case against you because you dont have the fundamental basis on which to draw from. lol i love the controversy though.

TheUnwanted · Jun 30, 2010

Skipton said:
TheUnwanted,
All of them it would appear except the gay one you seem to be using. Give me a dictionary example of where homosexuality is man and woman as opposed to man and man.

Give me a dictionary definition of homosexuality that remotely resembles anything mentioned in the Bible, which is what you seemed to be claiming back there.

gray100 · Jun 30, 2010

interested in life said:
skip, dont bother mate.i reckon stop talking to the pro gay community here,then they would probably leave.Nobody to argue with.

Do you not think it is a little pointless discussing homosexuality on a Christian philosophy and ethics forum if we are unable to approach the subject from different angles?

Skipton · Jun 30, 2010

Interested in life,
at the end of the day all one can do is wipe the dust off ones feet. But this is a Christian forum, people here need to see the truth represented.

oi_antz · Jul 1, 2010

alan-kinsella said:
Is their anyway that gays can be christian ?

If you read the passage and feel conviction of sin then it is a typical chip of ones holiness. Doesn't require 9 pages to explain what is meant. We can all feel that conviction since we are born sinners, but we make a choice in every decision: indulge in sinful fantasy (worshipping a carnal desire of lust) or return ones worship to The Lord.

I envisage homosexuality right there with adultery, it's not one of the ten commandments and the passage "due penalty for their perversion" is evidence to how much a struggle it becomes the more it is exercised.

God does have a vision for His family and that He is Lord should be respected. His will can be a snap of His finger, I mean to say though when you're born of the spirit you become humbled to The Lord and thereby maintain a relationship through forgiveness and repentance (observation + change = growth), so yes most definitely our fallen nature will guarantee our susceptibility to sin and we will deal with lust daily, but to exercise and perform an action in worship is the line you don't cross, I think.. well it works for me and Jesus anyway

Blessings y'all

Skipton · Jul 1, 2010

A very good post by oi antz. VERY good.

And thats it really, we are not talking here about anything other than a sin, homosexuality, being worshipped.
We are not talking about all people falling short and sinning, and we are not talking about anyone in particular falling short and sinning, we have the promotion of one sin alone, that of same sex relations, and as Christ's teaching also says, a man is a slave to whatever has mastered him.
No-one is promoting adultery as good, nor prostitution, nor slander, nor theft, nor murder, nor any other sin, only a particular type of sexual immorality, homosexual relations.

Skipton · Jul 1, 2010

gray100,

Do you not think it is a little pointless discussing homosexuality on a Christian philosophy and ethics forum if we are unable to approach the subject from different angles?

On a Christian forum Christians approach it from a Christian angle. From a Christian angle God created male and female and it was or this reason they shall be united, celibacy is the alternative. Same sex relations are error and detestable to God. Genesis 2, Matthew 19, Mark, 10, Ephesians 5, 1 Corinthians 5-7, Romans 1.
Your angle is a humaistic one, baseless in scripture and contrary to scripture. Take your gay angle off the Christian section.

razeontherock · Jul 1, 2010

TheUnwanted said:
Sorry, but without calling anyone a liar, or denying any one else is a Christian, could you maybe explain in a calm and rational fashion how "abandoning natural function" equates with "homosexuality"?

Honestly? The passages goes on to say "men with men working that which is unseemly." Let's take a look at Roman 1:22-28

"Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;"

So assuming those that defend the gay stance wish to assert they retain G-d in their knowledge, and are not reprobate, what do you do with this passage?

Skipton · Jul 1, 2010

razeontherock,
i dont think they do anything with it or think they need to. this passage describes how homosexuality is error, the pro-gay worldview approaches this passage from this position of error; their worldview and approach doesnt require they do anything with it.

David Brider · Jul 1, 2010

Skipton said:
gray100,
On a Christian forum Christians approach it from a Christian angle.

There are many Christian angles to approach this particular issue from.

David.

David Brider · Jul 1, 2010

razeontherock said:
Honestly? The passages goes on to say "men with men working that which is unseemly." Let's take a look at Roman 1:22-28

"Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;"

So assuming those that defend the gay stance wish to assert they retain G-d in their knowledge, and are not reprobate, what do you do with this passage?

Simple - I read it.

I notice that, since it refers to men who left the natural use of the woman [and] burned in lust one toward another" it's most likely talking about men who were heterosexual (because if they were homosexual, they wouldn't have had a "natural use of the woman" to leave in the first place).

I also notice that it refers to men burning in lust for one another as a result of engaging in some form of idolatry - literally, bowing down to images of men, birds, four-footed beats, and creeping things. Indeed, they were given up by God "to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves". So it's a very specific situation that Paul's describing, one that had already taken place. He's not saying, "men burning with lust for one another is a sin" (even if you want to equate that with homosexuality, which IMHO would be inaccurate); rather he's saying that "men burning with lust for one another", amidst a whole host of sexual impropriety which reads like some kind of mass orgy, happened amongst these people as a direct result of idolatry.

You might, if you so choose, wish to believe that Paul's writing specifically about homosexuality, but that doesn't seem to be the most straightforward reading of the passage unless you focus on a couple of verses to the exclusion of the rest of the passage. In addition to which, it definitely doesn't refer to any homosexuals I know, none of whom were around at the time Paul was writing about, and most of whom don't engage in pagan idolatry anyway.

David.

oi_antz · Jul 1, 2010

David, you are making a really good point about the collective story, but I sense you may be disagreeing with one of the facts of the story:

Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

The Bible contains everlasting truth, therefore it is always applicable to current events. This sentence is equally applicable today and there are many people who manifest sin into the world by burning in lust for each other.

People will either feel comfortable or uneasy about their sexuality, maybe some of this is due to their personality or relationships. It is definitely a very personal topic, and one of the more serious which has the potential, even a tendency I think, to cause suicide when misunderstood or supressed.

Skipton · Jul 1, 2010

David Brider,

There are many Christian angles to approach this particular issue from.

No there are not, the Christian angle and approach is tested against scripture by the Holy Spirit, which of course agrees with scripture.
Scripture is clear, same sex relations are outside God’s purpose as shown and error.

There is only one possible Christian angle. The pro-gay argument is not the Christian view, it is an anti-Christian view.

TheUnwanted · Jul 1, 2010

Skipton said:
David Brider,
No there are not, the Christian angle and approach is tested against scripture by the Holy Spirit, which of course agrees with scripture.[/color]
Scripture is clear, same sex relations are outside Gods purpose as shown and error.

There is only one possible Christian angle. The pro-gay argument is not the Christian view, it is an anti-Christian view.

Ah right, the good ol' "There is only one view of True Christians, and it just happens to be precisely in line with my own views" argument.

Skipton · Jul 1, 2010

David Brider,

I notice that, since it refers to men who left the natural use of the woman [and] burned in lust one toward another" it's most likely talking about men who were heterosexual (because if they were homosexual, they wouldn't have had a "natural use of the woman" to leave in the first place).

It also reveals all ungodliness and wickedness by men who suppress the truth, the truth is God created male and female to be in union or celibate. There is no support for the concept of homosexual and heterosexual, God created male and female to be in union, no room for homosexual there nor indeed all heterosexual acts either, homosexual and heterosexual is a suppression of the truth. The pro-gay argument is part of what

He's not saying, "men burning with lust for one another is a sin"

Which is a lie, that’s exactly what the text says, its about ALL ungodliness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth. It says men who turned away from the knowledge of God and abandoned the natural function with women and committed indecent acts with men which is error.

(even if you want to equate that with homosexuality,

homosexuality is a faulty concept according to God’s word and purposes, believers don’t equate it with anything.

TheUnwanted · Jul 1, 2010

<staff edit>
a. Stop calling people liars.

B. I am very much contesting the thesis that you have the sole claim on genuine and infalible understanding of God's message and intent. Refering to your views as "the Christian angle and approach" still doesn't alter the fact that a great many Christians do not share your views.

TheUnwanted · Jul 1, 2010

Skipton said:
I have not called anyone a liar

Skipton said:
The Unwanted,
Stop lying, I have not called anyone a liar, I have called out the lies they have been writing according to the scriptures they contradict and deny and the false atributing to what was said.
Stop lying by denying the word of God by promoting and defending sin.

Another lie, I dont have the sole claim, millions, the majority of Christians believe the scriptures.

I am saying the truth is the word of God, thats the Christian view.

oi_antz · Jul 1, 2010

TheUnwanted said:
..still doesn't alter the fact that a great many Christians do not share your views.

We can disagree with one another, it is a forgivable sin. To lie when we represent The Holy Spirit is not a forgiveable sin, thus those claiming to have an opinion as a Christian that homosexuality is acceptable is distorting what The Bible clearly says.

When the topic is pressed, it always comes down to someone trying to argue against this one verse. This is how everyone falls into sin: they disagree with The Holy Bible on one point. This book is the seed of life, it contains everything we need to know while living in carnality, that we will maintain our eternal relationship with God.

David, the worshipping of the creature rather than the Creator is to my understanding not the worshipping of a carved idol as you suggest, but the somewhat intense spiritual affair we may have with a peer when we worship their human form rather than worshipping God.

Once we are born of the Christian spirit, we awake a part of our consciousness which is dedicated to worshipping The Lord and it is quite obvious when someone's spiritual consciousness is worshipping sin. It is then between those two having their affair to put it in perspective of their relationship with The Lord and no other person's business afaic, sin is between one's self and Jesus and usually the conviction of the conscience speaks for itself while the church should treat it with as much caution as The Holy Bible does (you know it's rarely mentioned).

TheUnwanted · Jul 1, 2010

We can disagree with one another, it is a forgivable sin.

What makes you think disagreeing is any sort of a sin?

To lie when we represent The Holy Spirit is not a forgiveable sin,

Um... OK, if you believe that, maybe take it up with those who routinely and knowingly produce false witness about homosexuals, or any other group they wish to demonise, to justify their prejudices against them. NARTH, I'm looking at you...

thus those claiming to have an opinion as a Christian that homosexuality is acceptable is distorting what The Bible clearly says.

Once again, apparently not everyone agrees with you, and people having a different understanding of the Bib;e's message to you is not, in fact, "lying".

When the topic is pressed, it always comes down to someone trying to argue against this one verse. This is how everyone falls into sin: they disagree with The Holy Bible on one point. This book is the seed of life, it contains everything we need to know while living in carnality, that we will maintain our eternal relationship with God.

Argue against your particular understanding of that one verse, you mean.

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