Homosexuality

chilehed said:

Those who suffer from same-sex attractions can certainly be Christians. That does not change the fact that such attractions are intrinsically disordered and that homosexual acts are gravely sinful.

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I totally agree, I have many Christian friends who are attracted to the same sex, but do not commit the act. I have some friends who were in homosexual relationships for years, but then became born again Christians, and turned away from their sin. Was it difficult? Of course! When love and emotions are involved for another person, it's not gonna be easy. But as Luke 1:37 says, Nothing is impossible with God!

No, you can't. Romans 1:26-27

People like to use the convenient excuse that the bible has different interpretations. No it doesn't-2 Peter 1:20.

Its amazing that traffic violations are interpreted accurately but all of a sudden the bible has various interpretations.
How to interpret the bible.
http://www.bible-interpretation.com/

salida said:

No, you can't. Romans 1:26-27

People like to use the convenient excuse that the bible has different interpretations. No it doesn't-2 Peter 1:20.

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Salida- I'm not misinterpreting the bible. Romans 1:26-27, talks about lust, I'm talking about attraction. Please explain to me how that is the same. I'd like to inform my friends, if in fact our views are wrong about this. Thanks.

Homosexuality is an orientation. A person may have an orientation towards alcoholism, violence, gambling, sex addiction, and many other things too, but orientations aren't sinful. The lifestyle that you choose to lead can be though. All of the above orientations can bring worldly sinful behaviors if not kept in check. Romans 1 shows us that God is willing to "give people over" to their worldly lusts and desires (not just sexual). In other words, if you want a sinful life, you can have it.

Sin is sin... we shouldn't spend too much time ranking them or trying to decide whose sins are worse. A heterosexual who lives a life of habitual casual sex could be given over to their desires too (per Romans 1). Can a homosexual be a Christian? Absolutely! Would you say that an alcoholic can't be a Christian because he is struggling with the desire to drink?

And if you're asking about salvation, the answer has to be "I don't know", for none of us can judge or know the state of another's salvation. But I challenge you to consider this: if a monogamous gay couple accepted God's grace and lived lives as fruitful Christians, but was kept out of Heaven because of one habitual sin... wouldn't we all have reason to worry? There isn't one of us here that isn't openly, continually rebelling against God's will in some area: pride, greed, suppressing our spiritual gifts, coveting, laziness, self-righteousness, etc.

alan-kinsella said:

But the thing is that I dont tihink homosexuality is wrong, a dissorder, or that you suffer from it. I think it is perfectly normal and that it is ok to be homosexual

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Just as I once thought the same things about having relations with a woman to whom I was not married.

But we all have in common a tendency to deceive ourselves, particularly in matters of the heart, so relying on our own subjective perceptions can be unwise.

Being a Christian means submitting my life to the will of God, who created me in order that I might be fulfilled. Objectively I know that he exists, that he established his church with a teaching authority which he promised would always teach true doctrine, and that that church has taught from the beginning that sexual acts outside of marriage are intrinsically disordered.

Christ's chuch teaches many doctrines with which I disagreed. For me to say that she teaches wrongly is to make myself into my own god. I've discovered that I suffered deeply from those behaviors which the church teaches are gravely sinful. In many cases I didn't realise it until after I allowed God to rescue me from them. Some of them I asked him to remove even as I still wanted to cling to them; it was an act of the will which contradicted my feelings - difficult, but necessary.

VertigoAge said:

if a monogamous gay couple accepted God's grace and lived lives as fruitful Christians, but was kept out of Heaven because of one habitual sin... wouldn't we all have reason to worry? There isn't one of us here that isn't openly, continually rebelling against God's will in some area: pride, greed, suppressing our spiritual gifts, coveting, laziness, self-righteousness, etc.

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I agree with what you are saying. But think about this. That gay couple will most probably be having sex right? They have read scripture, they know that homosexual sex is a sin, yet they do it anyway and believe that they are allowed to, and because God made them that way, it is not a sin. While others who are rebelling against God, we know that it is wrong and we are working on it and asking God to help us live a proper life.
If you know from scripture that something you are doing is wrong, you shouldn't be proud of it. What's there to be proud of when you are going against God's word. Rather admit your faults, ask for forgiveness and try to change with the help of the Holy Spirit. Me for instance, I smoke, I know I shouldn't, and I am definitely not proud of it. Everyday is a challenge, and yes sometimes I give into temptation. But I try to change this.
What i am trying to get at is that you should not be proud of your sin and think it's ok just because God made you that way.

tammynik said:

While others who are rebelling against God, we know that it is wrong and we are working on it and asking God to help us live a proper life.

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Are we always "working on it" though?

Jesus said: "Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you." Do we not openly rebel against this command whenever we stay mad at someone and don't actively do good to them? Are we not often proud when we do something to defeat or put down our enemy?

Jesus said: "Sell your possessions and give to the poor." Do we not openly rebel against this command when we keep all that we have and buy more (many going into debt and not giving to the poor at all)? Are we not often proud of our wealth and achievement?

Jesus said: "Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate." Are there not millions of Christians who are now divorced for reasons other than infidelity? Are many of them not proudly re-married (thus repeatedly committing adultery according to the Bible)?

I'm not saying that Homosexuality is good in God's eyes, but neither are all of the above, yet our culture is much more openly accepting of these sins because they aren't as foreign to us. But I'm not so sure that God sees it that way. The truth is, every one of us selectively ignores some of the rules in the Bible. We tend to rationalize them, then go on proudly living a life that we feel is "trying hard enough to be righteous".

The fact is, Paul teaches plainly in Galatians and Romans that we are freed from the law. We have no hope of following all of the rules, so we need to seek harmony with Christ by accepting His grace, surrendering, and forming a close relationship with Him. When this happens, we'll still sin, but we are walking with the Holy Spirit. Is it possible for a homosexual person in a committed relationship to be in harmony with Christ? I don't know, but I hope so. Just as I hope that the same is possible for a divorced and/or remarried person! I want to see Jesus' sacrifice be as far-reaching as his mercy allows.

lol....you got me there

It is a sin to be a homosexual, everybody sins and seeks forgiveness but if you keep sinning then there's no place for you in God's heart. I will pray for you to be cured.

alan-kinsella said:

Is their anyway that gays can be christian ?

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To answer your question, any gay who changes their ways and accepts Jesus can be Christian. However, living a Christian based life and claiming to be Christian are two different things. Jesus will ask, "What have you done for me?" We should have an answer. I mentioned on this forum before. However, throughout the entire Bible since Mankind was first created Gods purpose was to have man marry a woman, not any other way. Fornication is a sin, that is procreation without marriage.
It goes even further.

Let us look at first what procreation is. It is the making of a child, the two become one through their child. They are combined to make a child. This what procreation (sex) is for. It is not to be used for a personal high or used as a way to show love. Love is through the heart, you can Love someone without touching them. The world today has twisted this around so much that people think that procreation is making love. NO, Love is from the Heart, it does not involve any touching or procreation. You cannot procreate with a man and another man, you cannot procreate with a woman and another woman.
Thus God has said, such LUST is an abomination against God. Gay and lesbian lust is a sin, it is not what God intended for you to do with your bodies. You can LOVE another man or woman as a friend and or brother and sister in Jesus, but that LOVE comes from the heart, not from touching them. To touch them in a lustful way is a sin, to try and procreate with them is a sin. That is why man is different from a woman, so the man and woman together can make children together.

Churches that allow gay marriage are committing the same sin as the people who do it. It should not be allowed for any Church to change the LAWS of God, nor is it up to any Church to change the ability how mankind procreates, you cannot change how God created the bodies of a man or woman. Those who get sex changes are only destroying their bodies to live a life of lust and it is a sin.

Marriage is the joining of a man and a woman only. There are no exceptions to this law. IN fact, by such, originally marriage is through the process when a woman loses her virginity to a man, thus as such with Adam and Eve and the others that followed for many thousands of years. However, thus since wars, divorce and rape happened, there was then an exception that marriage was still able to happen in a ceremony. It was because of the fact during wars the men would rape as many women as possible so they would never be able to get married to anyone else, thus the children would be offspring of the conquerors. You can research this if you like.

Now, today the world tries to make gay and lesbian as like it was if it is a normal way of life, to be accepted even by Christians. Well, if the world wants to accept sinful ways, to try and change Gods laws and the meaning of marriage, then the world is bound for a short life and a long life in hell. Those that support such things are only supporting the lustful sins of others. Those that stand up for the word of God and try and correct them are being True to God.

Everyone has a choice to make, how they will live and if they will follow God. However, what choices you make and whom you follow is the most important choices you will ever make. You should be very concerned about making the right choices. It will mean the difference between life with Jesus or hell. It depends on how much you value the life of your soul I guess.

I do not hate gays, I feel sorry for them that they have been misled, that they made some bad choices. However, I will not stand up for their sins and I will not turn against God or the Word to make them feel better about the way they live. In fact, I will try and correct them and any church that supports their evil ways. It means staying to and LOYAL to the word of God, being LOYAL to God in this life and the way we live.

Now, if you want to look at this in a more scientific way, which God is clearly showing you why only two should get married and procreate and not keep changing partners or have gay or lesbian lust is the fact that everyone has different bacteria within their bodies. We all have highly complex bacteria, which when mixed with other bacteria it can become deadly, create viruses, diseases, even cause cancers.
Some people have higher immune systems than others, they can go through many partners in life and not have much of a problem, but they will have some type of herpes or other STD because of their different interactions with others. Procreation should not be taken lightly. It tells you to find one partner and stick with it. However, yes people don't get along and they go find another, perhaps others after that. It just makes the complex bacteria even more deadly to them and others as the more people they try and procreate with.
God intended you to find ONE other and stick with them, but things happen, they die or get divorced and so the other goes searching.
With gays and lesbians the complex bacteria is now combined with far more dangerous bacteria and it creates far deadlier diseases.

If you cannot find the answers in the Bible as to why those lustful acts are forbidden, then science will surely show you a good reason why God has created us not to do such evil things. The wages of sin is death. Instead of promoting and supporting gays, it is time Christians stand up and try to point these things out to gays and lesbians so they may realize that their bodies were not made to mingle with the same sex. Nor are our bodies created to mingle with many partners and be able to live healthy lives. Then Governments like to hide this information from the public, even the CDC doesn't advertise the fact that there are over 30 some new diseases every year that are deadly.
That even HIV/AIDS is highly contagious. You can get it from kissing an infected person, get it through their sweat and tears, even get it from touching vomit or their mucous. It is very serous folks. Go to cdc.gov and look it up. Then wonder why it is not advertised on TV giving out these warnings, instead they promote condoms in schools.

The proof is both in the Bible and in science.
Procreation is not a toy, it is very serious and should be taken very serious. God had a plan when He created our bodies and it was not for people to use their bodies as toys, but as tools to increase the population on this world through procreation between one man and one woman.

VertigoAge said:

...But I challenge you to consider this: if a monogamous gay couple accepted God's grace and lived lives as fruitful Christians, ...

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That's a contradiction in terms. By their very nature, homosexual relations are not fruitful, and the acceptance of God's grace leads to the abandonment of homosexual acts and the rejection of any idea that such acts are ordered to the good of the person.

The grace of God is sufficient to change us in every way he wishes us to change, if only we abandon ourselves to it.

chilehed said:

That's a contradiction in terms. By their very nature, homosexual relations are not fruitful, and the acceptance of God's grace leads to the abandonment of homosexual acts and the rejection of any idea that such acts are ordered to the good of the person.

The grace of God is sufficient to change us in every way he wishes us to change, if only we abandon ourselves to it.

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My point was this: take the above post and substitute "homosexual acts" with "acts of fornication". Fornication is not fruitful, and the acceptance of God's grace should also lead to its abandonment too, correct? So, would you say that all unmarried people who are not virgins can't be Christians? Would you say that all re-married people that divorced for reasons other than infidelity cannot be Christian? Probably not. Why? Because most of us can identify with heterosexual fornication more than we can with homosexuality.

Let's take it one step further. Why does it only have to be sexual sin? Take your above post and substitute "homosexual acts" with "acts of pride" or "acts of greed". Can we be certain that we aren't openly, rebelliously living in those areas of sin? But do we say that prideful and greedy people can't be Christians because grace would have made them abandon those orientations?

My point was that we have a tendency to selectively condemn our brothers and sisters as non-Christians for the speck in their eyes (especially if it's something that we don't do ourselves - ie. homosexual behavior), while ignoring the plank in our own. The truth is, none of us could claim to be a Christian if it could only be achieved by having no habitual, rebellious pattern of sin in our lives.

Something that I still don't understand is why all homosexual relationships are automatically designated as a lustful sin.

If a straight man is involved in a marriage consisting of a committed, loving relationship with a woman that happens to involve sex, he's doing fine.

If a gay man is involved in a long-term relationship or a marriage (since the option is often not available to him) consisting of a committed, loving relationship with a man that happens to involve sex, he is a slave to lust.

I don't understand that. I don't like to think that I believe in a God who condones or creates some sort of misleading but wholly convincing image of love...that happens to be between two people of the same sex.

SequiturBlue said:

Something that I still don't understand is why all homosexual relationships are automatically designated as a lustful sin.

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Not a problem: this is not the case. The term "pornea" covers homosexuality just as surely as "arsenokoitai" does, and it also covers sex outside marriage, pornography even, and adultery.

Do you know what Paul says about "pornea"? "Don't even let a mention of pornea be found among you" Ep 5:3, cf Rom 13:13, 1 Cor 5:11, 6:9,

SequiturBlue said:

If a straight man is involved in a marriage consisting of a committed, loving relationship with a woman that happens to involve sex, he's doing fine.

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"everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart." Mt 5:28 and "Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church" Ep 5:25.

Any relationship -- even a relationship within marriage -- that introduces lust is an issue of sin. This "happens to involve sex" is an odd comment on the modern attitude toward sex. Sexuality isn't happenstance. A man involved in lust even toward his spouse is treating his spouse shamefully and immorally. The sexual desire is then inordinate -- that is, its intensity is out of order. If sacrificial love doesn't subdue and indeed eliminate lust (which itself is inordinate desire for sexual actions), then yes, lust remains sinful. Paul points out that it's shameful to engage in pornea at all, and so marriage is a better accession to protect the reputation of the church -- 1 Cor 7:2 -- because of human failings -- but Paul doesn't say people quit sinning when they're lusting in marriage.

Our modern ideas of "everything goes, all's fair in love, keep your regulations out of my bedroom", that forces this impression on the modern psyche. But no one would accuse government regulations of being righteous. Plus, no one shall ever accuse the 20/21 century of having the right answers on sexual morality.

There's a very good background book, "Marriage in the Early Church" that surveys the early Christian ideas of marriage. But after I read it, I look at the current day and realize how far the slide has gone. Our culture is anti-Christian when it comes to morality (well: our culture is anti-morality when it comes to Christianity!). So to talk about "what's average" is not to talk about "what's Christian".

SequiturBlue said:

If a gay man is involved in a long-term relationship or a marriage (since the option is often not available to him) consisting of a committed, loving relationship with a man that happens to involve sex, he is a slave to lust.

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The term "pornea" covers it directly. It's sexual immorality. The sense in which "lust" could even be brought up here doesn't have anything to do with its intensity. The problem here is in an inordinate subject of the sexual desire. So we're not talking about extraordinary intensity when it comes to homosexuality. We're talking about an extraordinary direction, or focus.

I think the whole use of the term has got beyond modern ears to hear, though. "pornea" is a reasonable answer to this.

I just heard a radio broadcast including this issue (it's just one question among many subjects in the broadcast), so:

Ligonier.org

SequiturBlue said:

I don't understand that. I don't like to think that I believe in a God who condones or creates some sort of misleading but wholly convincing image of love...that happens to be between two people of the same sex.

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I believe Romans 1:30 says, we "invent new ways to sin". So the idea that God creates something convincing here is just not the case. "There's a way that seems right to one man, but its end is destruction."

Finally, we must approach all this with a view toward redemption and repentance. No adverse action will stop someone from repenting and being redeemed. That goes for sex outside marriage; it goes for homosexuality; and it goes for adultery. None can be compromised with. After listing most of these sins and more, Paul clinches it: "And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God." 1 Cor 6:11

The moral bar is high. The grace of God is higher. Rom 5:20-21

VertigoAge said:

My point was this: take the above post and substitute "homosexual acts" with "acts of fornication"....My point was that we have a tendency to selectively condemn our brothers and sisters as non-Christians for the speck in their eyes (especially if it's something that we don't do ourselves - ie. homosexual behavior), while ignoring the plank in our own. The truth is, none of us could claim to be a Christian if it could only be achieved by having no habitual, rebellious pattern of sin in our lives.

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I agree wholeheartedly. My comment wasn't meant to cast doubt on the point you were making, but rather to address a possible misunderstanding of your wording.

heymikey80 said:

Not a problem: this is not the case. The term "pornea" covers homosexuality just as surely as "arsenokoitai" does, and it also covers sex outside marriage, pornography even, and adultery.

Do you know what Paul says about "pornea"? "Don't even let a mention of pornea be found among you" Ep 5:3, cf Rom 13:13, 1 Cor 5:11, 6:9,

"everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart." Mt 5:28 and "Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church" Ep 5:25.

Any relationship -- even a relationship within marriage -- that introduces lust is an issue of sin. This "happens to involve sex" is an odd comment on the modern attitude toward sex. Sexuality isn't happenstance. A man involved in lust even toward his spouse is treating his spouse shamefully and immorally. The sexual desire is then inordinate -- that is, its intensity is out of order. If sacrificial love doesn't subdue and indeed eliminate lust (which itself is inordinate desire for sexual actions), then yes, lust remains sinful. Paul points out that it's shameful to engage in pornea at all, and so marriage is a better accession to protect the reputation of the church -- 1 Cor 7:2 -- because of human failings -- but Paul doesn't say people quit sinning when they're lusting in marriage.

Our modern ideas of "everything goes, all's fair in love, keep your regulations out of my bedroom", that forces this impression on the modern psyche. But no one would accuse government regulations of being righteous. Plus, no one shall ever accuse the 20/21 century of having the right answers on sexual morality.

There's a very good background book, "Marriage in the Early Church" that surveys the early Christian ideas of marriage. But after I read it, I look at the current day and realize how far the slide has gone. Our culture is anti-Christian when it comes to morality (well: our culture is anti-morality when it comes to Christianity!). So to talk about "what's average" is not to talk about "what's Christian".

The term "pornea" covers it directly. It's sexual immorality. The sense in which "lust" could even be brought up here doesn't have anything to do with its intensity. The problem here is in an inordinate subject of the sexual desire. So we're not talking about extraordinary intensity when it comes to homosexuality. We're talking about an extraordinary direction, or focus.

I think the whole use of the term has got beyond modern ears to hear, though. "pornea" is a reasonable answer to this.

I just heard a radio broadcast including this issue (it's just one question among many subjects in the broadcast), so:

I believe Romans 1:30 says, we "invent new ways to sin". So the idea that God creates something convincing here is just not the case. "There's a way that seems right to one man, but its end is destruction."

Finally, we must approach all this with a view toward redemption and repentance. No adverse action will stop someone from repenting and being redeemed. That goes for sex outside marriage; it goes for homosexuality; and it goes for adultery. None can be compromised with. After listing most of these sins and more, Paul clinches it: "And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God." 1 Cor 6:11

The moral bar is high. The grace of God is higher. Rom 5:20-21

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Okay. I guess that would bring up a few other questions for me. I'm not even really putting myself in a position to debate here, since I'm not nearly as Bible-literate as I should like to be.

1) Is there really any reason to condemn homosexuality other than because homosexual relationships do not bear children and God appears to say so? While I think there are things God does that we can never understand, condemning homosexuality has caused an enormous amount of pain and suffering for people over thousands of years - people who would renounce it in a second if they at all felt as though their orientation was a choice. To think He would do this, knowing the consequences and without providing much of an explanation for his decision, seems cruel.

2) When do you believe sexual desire morphs into lust? I say, "happens to involve sex" because - as I understand it - sex is a pretty integral part of marriage for many (but not all) couples. If both partners are committed to and respect each other in all aspects of their relationship, is having a healthy sex life somehow not okay?

Thank you. I appreciate you responding to me in such detail - learning things from other people is precisely the reason I joined this forum.

SequiturBlue said:

1) Is there really any reason to condemn homosexuality other than because homosexual relationships do not bear children and God appears to say so?

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Condemnation is a worldly POV of Christianity, I think judgement and condemnation belong to God The Father and we have been told Jesus holds the keys to Hades. Judgementalism is meant to be used for self improvement, not the 'improvement' of others to our liking! I think some people get power hungry in Christianity bless their soul.

SequiturBlue said:

2) When do you believe sexual desire morphs into lust? I say, "happens to involve sex" because - as I understand it - sex is a pretty integral part of marriage for many (but not all) couples. If both partners are committed to and respect each other in all aspects of their relationship, is having a healthy sex life somehow not okay?

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From my observations and experience in this wonderful world of ours, I find the lustful fantasy is another thing which brings the darkness of sin to our world. This happens when we concentrate our attention on a physical idol and thus we draw the light of our worship away from The Holy God. This can be male or female too, any special someone in the workplace that contributes vibes of lust into the world we share is taking our mind away from worshipping His Holiness and that lines up with adultery in our intent. Just how holy we really strive to be is quite relevant to making judgements around this topic

Holiness is about being aware of our consciousness, Jesus shows us how to worship God with all our heart and mind by becoming aware of the worship we place on carnal desires, at what point does lust impact on our relationship with God? I think it is when we are not worshipping Him but we are worshipping His creation without honouring Him.

Hi alan - kinsella,
The question is too wide open and I have not a clue what you mean.
I can answer yes or no to your question.
So trying to answer,
Yes, of course.
That gay need only believe in Jesus Christ, repent of his sin/s, and be baptised in water by believers in Christ and he can be a christian.

Or do you mean, " Can a gay be a christian?" in man's eyes?
Or do you mean "Can a gay get away with pretending he is a biblical christian by not 'coming out' and so never be detected?
Or do you mean, "Can a gay be a christian in God's eyes?"

Now, I do not know whether you are a gay non believer thinking about becoming a christian or a gay non believer already challenged by another in counting the cost and would rather get advice that seems more pleasing to you or whether you are masquerading as a fully paid up member or you are thinking of a further conversion from being a christian to being a 'gay christian' due to the latest 'coming out trend'
but please do not think of Yahweh as an always loving God when you might be considering abusing his love and forgiveness.
Man never knows the full extent of reprisals by Yahweh against that man and consequently man never knows the extent of reprisals by Yahweh against other men who involve themselves in vile practices ( whether penetration or not, whether a so called kiss of love or not ) , and the same goes for any man who does the same vile practice with another man's wife, for Yahweh means what he says even in the New Testament.
Check it out. You will be paid back the sin that you do. Make no mistake about it.
So when you have found where Yahweh warns man about this then turn to Romans Ch 1.
No gays will admit that this has happened to them.
No other will judge them so.
But I have to believe Yahweh when Yahweh says this.
So I would read these scriptures this way.
Knowing Yahweh judges rebelling christians harsher than non christians ( because the latter can repent whereas the former will not ) A gay christian has to be a person with a distorted mind as described by Yahweh through Paul in Romans Ch 1.
And I always thought a measure of how distorted their minds could be would be when they advocate the destruction of the Bible based on being aggressively anti gay literature.
But they recently surprised me by making Yahweh's word ' gay friendly' with their own ' gay friendly ' churches.
Maybe one of them is on this forum even.
Now as for you,
Even if I had gay tendencies, Romans Ch 1 would be enough for me to fear what Yahweh could do to me and even fear what Yahweh has already done to me.
I'd be so scared I'd forget my sexual fantasies and repent.
I would lock myself away from all predators once gay friends because you will never win them over to understanding your change of heart/fear and their physical attractions will be so overpowering.
Any gay can repent of their lurid behaviour and become a christian.
Trouble with all of this I've said is that many non gay christians will admit to having lurid behaviour, especially in the lust regions giving the gay movement much ammunition to being PROUD of being a gay christian when compared to many others.
At least, they will say, " we have not stooped as low as a paedophile leader. "
No, not yet ..... but who am I to know?
seekthelord

SequiturBlue said:

...1) Is there really any reason to condemn homosexuality other than because homosexual relationships do not bear children and God appears to say so?...

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That he says so ought to be quite enough on its own, but as it happens he doesn't say so for an arbitrary reason. Homosexuality is counter to our nature - it's a disordered condition and homosexual acts are bad for us. The pain isn't caused by a societal rejection of homosexuality, it's caused by the nature of homosexuality itself.

We all should take care when using the word "condemn". Finding a behavior to be against the Bible is one thing, but condemning a person is something different. This thread was actually part of the inspiration for my last Podcast episode called Conviction and Condemnation.

One of the listeners posted a comment suggesting that I reference it here in this thread. I do so hesitantly, mainly because I don't want to confused for condemning those who condemn!