Homosexuality

[Cris413]

Why do you think that we don't have to keep God's commandments?

If ye love me, keep my commandments. (John 14:15)

peace in jesus name

If you wanna keep teaching/preaching works based salvation...that's between you and God...

I'm not going to debate this with you...


...unsubcribing...



Peace - out

 

[Bro.T]

If you wanna keep teaching/preaching works based salvation...that's between you and God...

I'm not going to debate this with you...


...unsubcribing...



Peace - out

I respect that.

peace in jesus name

 

[Wade Smith]

If you wanna keep teaching/preaching works based salvation...that's between you and God...

I'm not going to debate this with you...


...unsubcribing...



Peace - out

He isn't teaching works based salvation.

He is teaching what James and John taught. "Faith without works is dead."

"Let no man deceive you, he who does righteousness is righteous. He who does not do righteousness is of the devil.."


YOu cannot be a Christian and go around continually living in sexual immorality.


The fact of the matter is, the modern church is wholly given over to a false doctrine. A doctrine that tells them it is ok to commit any sort of sin because "we're under grace and not the law". This is a lie from the devil, and baby christians are falling for it by the millions.

Lets look at the parable again.

18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. 21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.


Justification by faith, but faith without works is dead.

If you do not have good works, it is because your faith is false.

The evil person in this parable knows who Jesus is, and calls him, "Lord, Lord", a Jewish way of affirming that he DEFINITELY knows who Jesus is.

But Jesus says, "not everyone who says this is going to enter in."

22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Why? Because they bare thorns. They were adulterers and homosexuals and liars and thieves and murderers, and they tried to make some excuse to live that way.

My Bible says that fornicators will not enter in to the kingdom of heaven.

Gal. 5:19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Do you realize that the "License to Sin" doctrine is a heresy? I mean, you are going to be mad at me for saying it, but it is the truth. Romans 6, in part, is addressed at refuting that false doctrine.

Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

1 Cor. 6:9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.


Be not deceived. A good tree does not bring forth corrupt fruit. A person cannot be a Christian and at the same time be a willfully practicing homosexual, nor any of those other sins. I didn't write that, Paul did. Paul said they will not inherit the kingdom of God.

As Jesus said, "Why do you call me 'Lord, Lord' and do not what I say?"(lk 6:46).

The word "Repent" means to acknowledge sin and turn away from it.

When Jesus said, "Repent and believe the Gospel," that is what he meant.


I don't care what anyone's pastor told them. The Gospel is a lot more about "doing" than what this generation has been lead to believe.


Works cannot save anyone, but the Bible clearly teaches that a good tree has good fruit,a nd does not bear evil fruit.

Homosexuality is clearly an evil fruit.

 

[Cassidy]

Faith without works is dead

Who's works are we talking about?

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

Faith without works is dead

Who's works are we talking about?

Good question.

James goes on to say:

But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds." Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do. James 2:18, NIV.

Works, aka proper conduct, doesn't save. Proper conduct is the proof of the salvation.

I think it's important, though, to separate the two concepts. Salvation is by grace alone, through faith the in the blood of Christ. Proper conduct afterward is simply a matter of obeying your Father in Heaven. If He is your Father, then obey Him. Not to *be* saved, but to show that you *are* saved.

 

[dies-l]

Works, aka proper conduct, doesn't save. Proper conduct is the proof of the salvation.

I would state this somewhat differently, though I think I agree with the general idea. To say that works are "proof of the salvation," seems to imply that our salvation is something that we need to prove. It also seems to imply that, based on works, we can know whether or not a person will be saved. I think, perhaps, a better way to state it is that salvation and works are two results of having faith. Paul states that we are saved by faith, not by works. James tells us that faith and works are inseparable. Some treat these two statements as contradictory, but I think that this belief reveals an inaccurate assumption about faith. Some people seem to believe that faith is simply about believing or professing to believe in the object of faith. I believe that our actions are central to properly understanding faith.

Consider, for example, the following scenario: You are on the 10th floor of a burning building. You have been told that there is a net that has been placed to catch you if you jump out the window. You have also been told that that the fire has progressed to a point, that there is no other way to save you. If you believe all that you have been told, then you will jump. The only reasonable reason for you to stay in the building is that you lack faith in what you have been told and/or in the ability of the net and the rescue personnel to catch you.

In the same way, if we have placed our faith in Jesus, we will make every effort to obey Him. This doesn't mean that we won't make mistakes sometimes. This also doesn't mean that we might misunderstand what He wants us to do. But, it does mean that we will try and that the decisions we make will be influenced by the object of our faith: faith and works are inseparable. But, it is not the works that save us; salvation is a result of the same thing that motivates our works: faith.

So, imo, this relates to the topic of thread in that, I don't think that it is reasonable to say that homosexual conduct is proof of lack of salvation, any more than the same could be said about lying, lusting, greed (i.e., a life focused on building worldly wealth), slander, etc... All have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God, including homosexuals. But, as with any sinner, we cannot make conclusions about their salvation. It is very possible that for many such people, homosexuality is still an issue that they are having difficulty turning over to God. It could be that for many people, this is an issue about which they have not yet come to believe that Jesus has asked them to let go of. The point is that we all make mistakes both in understanding what obedience requires and in actually doing it. The beauty of grace is that we are saved by our faith, ecompassed within which is our willingness to seek to live in obedience to God. But, there is no sin which is so severe as to trump the grace of God.

In short, I don't think that God looks at our actions as much as He looks at our hearts, and I don't think that we are properly equipped to know or to judge where a person's heart is. In the Kingdom of God, I believe that it is much more about about progress than perfection.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

So maybe "evidence" was a better word than "proof."

 

[Bro.T]

(Gal. 6:3-5, 7) (v.3) For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.

(v.4) But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another. The book says let every man prove his own work, and if your work is good then you will rejoice in it.

(v.5) For every man shall bear his own burden.

That’s right; every man must bear his own burden. You mean you thought that all you had to do was confess the name of Jesus and that was it? Brothers and sisters you must work to get salvation.

(v.7) Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. God is not to be played with. Whatsoever you plant, that’s what you are going to reap. Be it good works unto eternal life, or evil works unto eternal damnation. The choice is yours, and your works belong to you.

(Matt. 16:24-27) (v.24) Then said Jesus unto his disciples, if any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. That was the Lord’s burden, to die on the cross for the sins of man. Now as we read earlier every man must bear his own burden, and what is your burden?

(v.25) For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. You must give up your life in this world; you must not get caught up in the cares of this world.

You must bring forth-good fruits of faith by keeping God’s commandments, statues, and judgments.

(v.26) For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?


Some of the great patriarchs in (Heb.11) gave up a lot, some even their lives in exchange for their soul. You see they had great faith (belief) that their souls (bodies) would be raised at the first resurrection.

And some of you won’t even give up some of the littlest things like, going to church on Sunday, the pagan holidays of Christmas and Easter, praying to the Virgin Mary, and I could go on and on. And most Christians know these rituals have nothing to do with Jesus and the bible.

But do they understand that they are offensive to God? Maybe it’s because you have more faith in man than God, maybe it’s because you fear how man is going to treat you, and you don’t fear God.

But listen up;

(v.27) For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his holy angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Now these are the words of Jesus (the Son of man), you know the savior of the world. He said that when he comes he is going to judge every man according to his works.

Let no man deceived you into believing that all you need to do is have faith in the Lord and you will be saved?

peace in jesus name

 

[Cassidy]

Again I ask - who's works is James talking about when he says "Faith without works is dead"

And to whom are these works 'shown' to, as far as James is concerned....(hint: it's not God )

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

Again I ask - who's works is James talking about when he says "Faith without works is dead"

And to whom are these works 'shown' to, as far as James is concerned....(hint: it's not God )

It seems to me, since James immediately followed "faith without works is dead" with the statement about showing faith BY works, he is talking about a believer's faith not meaning anything without the works to demonstrate it. For example, I knew a man who wouldn't ever put anything in the collection plate. He *said* he believed that if he gave to God, it would come back to him, and that God would supply his needs, but did he really believe it?

Tithes and offerings are not the issue here; it is only one example of the issue, the issue being what I see as a lack of faith on his part. He also would not seek a job or enter a rehabilitation program that would help him become better able to seek a job. He stayed stuck in "I'm handicapped (not physically, he wasn't); I can't work." Once more, lack of faith. Believe me I knew this man very well; I used to be married to him. He left me after we'd been married a year, saying he didn't think we could make it financially. Again, lack of faith. Why do I see it as a lack of faith? Because although he would *say* he believed God's word--he prayed daily, went to church every week, and spoke fluent Christianese--he would not *act* as if he believed it. When the time came to do so, he never did actually step out in faith.

I suppose this answers the second half of the question as well. God already knows whether we have faith or not. It's other people who rely on works as evidence of faith.

 

[Cassidy]

I suppose this answers the second half of the question as well. God already knows whether we have faith or not. It's other people who rely on works as evidence of faith.

Bingo! That's what James was talking about showing others the evidence of our faith through works.

But who's works are they?

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

It seems to me, since James immediately followed "faith without works is dead" with the statement about showing faith BY works, he is talking about a believer's faith not meaning anything without the works to demonstrate it.

But who's works are they?

The answer I intended was "the believer's works."

God already knows. The believer shows others that he/she is a believer by the works. By stepping out in faith and *acting* like you believe it. Those works DO NOT SAVE but demonstrate who the believer belongs to.

What point are you leading up to making?

 

[Cassidy]

The point where we are no longer required to work but to rest in Christ....

No..they are not the believer's works at all, for if they were then they wouldn't be of God.

I believe that they are Christ's works. When people look at me I want them to see the work of Christ (by faith)...not mine!

I'm trying to pull the focus away from 'self' and onto Christ...so that no one can boast! We don't live anymore...but it's Christ that lives in us.

 

[Bro.T]

The point where we are no longer required to work but to rest in Christ....

No..they are not the believer's works at all, for if they were then they wouldn't be of God.

I believe that they are Christ's works. When people look at me I want them to see the work of Christ (by faith)...not mine!

I'm trying to pull the focus away from 'self' and onto Christ...so that no one can boast! We don't live anymore...but it's Christ that lives in us.

Thats your believe, James made is clear

But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? (Jamen 2:20)

James 2

2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. (ten commandments)

2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

Looks like the ten commandments to me. You put sin on the table, then you have to put the Law on the table

Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. (1John 3:4)

Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city (Revelation 22:14)

peace in jesus name

 

[Cassidy]

Yes tanzel I already know what your interpretation is

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

cass, you're in for a might big surprise

 

[Bro.T]

Yes tanzel I already know what your interpretation is

"The point where we are no longer required to work but to rest in Christ"....

This is what you said, right cassidy

Lets look at what Jesus said

And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. (Revelation 22:12)

Revelation 20

20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Got to get some understanding Cassidy

Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. (Revelation 22:14)

peace in jesus name

 

[Cassidy]

I know what your interpretation is Tanzel.

 

[Bro.T]

Lets take a look at what Paul states Brothers and Sisters

Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. (Romans 8:7)

Why is a carnal minded person an enemy of God? A carnal minded person is simply not following after the spirit/word of God. Note what Paul says, in Romans the second chapter:

For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. (Romans 2:13)

But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed. (James 1:25)

Once again, what mind set will this person have? They will be spiritually minded and will be blessed indeed at the appearing of the Lord Jesus, coming in His kingdom. At that time we will receive our reward for following after the "spirit" (word) of God.

Let's continue. Take notice of the statements David makes in the 51st Psalm, let's begin at the 6th verse.

Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom. (Psalm 51:6)

Yeah, sisters and brothers the Lord desires truth in the inward parts. After obtaining the truth which is the Word of God, wisdom will follow.

Note what David says in the 10th verse.


Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. (Psalm 51:10)

Note what David states; "renew a right spirit within me." Once we have this renewed spirit what will happen? Let's skip to the 13th verse.

Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee. (Psalm 51:13)

Once we have renewed our spirit, or renewed the thoughts of our mind, not being a forgetful hearer, but actually walking in the Lords commandments, we will be able to teach transgressors the ways of the Lord and they will be converted unto Him.

Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins. (James 5:19-20)

Let's conclude this portion of this study with a few verses from Ephesians the 4th chapter.

Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.

But ye have not so learned Christ; If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:

That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another. (Ephesians 4:19-25)

 

[Kasih]

and the winner for copy and paste AWARD of all time goes to ...

*drum rolls

TANZEL !!!!