Homosexuality

[Sam48]

I do not believe the Bible is God's word. So it matters not to me what the Bible says or does not say. Other Christians who do regard the Bible as God's word find the passages that supposedly condemn same-sex relations to be not so clear about this, and to have been interpreted wrongly by many Christians. Since I do not believe the Bible is God's word in the first place, I usually do not get into those arguments about the meaning of the text or its interpretation.

That's a ~~little lame: if Christian who DO believei it is Gods Word, say it's not clear they talk themselves outta it. To get off the hook, but that's my opinion.

 

[OllieFranz]

The bible, Gods WORD says it very clearly that no one should sleep next to the same gender as in the same way you would with your wife/husband.

Sorry, but no it does not. Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 forbid Jewish men from being the "top" in one certain act, and quite possibly the ban may be restricted to certain circumstances. Romans 1 say that addiction, including sexual addiction is a consequence of turning away from God, but only singles out same-sex sexual addiction because the source Paul is quoting used a homosexual example just to "tweak" one specific reader. It is clear in the original source that the homosexuality is not the point of the criticism, except for that "tweak."

No where else is homosexuality forbidden (unless you count 1 Corinthians 6 and 1 Timothy 1).

There's no way around that one. Or you should lie to yourself; of course there a gay~~lesbians who have a relationship without sexual contact.

Why, do you feel the need to lie to yourself? I'd rather follow Jesus.

 

[Sam48]

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Sorry, but no it does not. Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 forbid Jewish men from being the "top" in one certain act, and quite possibly the ban may be restricted to certain circumstances. Romans 1 say that addiction, including sexual addiction is a consequence of turning away from God, but only singles out same-sex sexual addiction because the source Paul is quoting used a homosexual example just to "tweak" one specific reader. It is clear in the original source that the homosexuality is not the point of the criticism, except for that "tweak."

No where else is homosexuality forbidden (unless you count 1 Corinthians 6 and 1 Timothy 1).

Why, do you feel the need to lie to yourself? I'd rather follow Jesus.

Me too! That's why I don't lie to myself. I follow Jesus with whole my heart and soul, at least I try: and homosexuality is forbidden, period.

Homosexuality is a sin and people make a choice to do that act. It's not a choice wether you feel more attracted to people from the same gender. But you choose.'

(I'm 98% hetero and even if I feel attracted to a woman I want to follow Jesus instead of jumping that woman )

 

[Ohioprof]

That's a ~~little lame: if Christian who DO believei it is Gods Word, say it's not clear they talk themselves outta it. To get off the hook, but that's my opinion.

I cannot speak for Christians who believe the Bible is God's word, because I do not believe that.

 

[Sam48]

I cannot speak for Christians who believe the Bible is God's word, because I do not believe that.

Guess not.

 

[Ohioprof]

Me too! That's why I don't lie to myself. I follow Jesus with whole my heart and soul, at least I try: and homosexuality is forbidden, period.

Homosexuality is a sin and people make a choice to do that act. It's not a choice wether you feel more attracted to people from the same gender. But you choose.'

(I'm 98% hetero and even if I feel attracted to a woman I want to follow Jesus instead of jumping that woman )

Jesus, as far as we know, never said anything about "homosexuality" or about same-sex relationships. So you make the choice to reject same-sex relationships on the basis of no known statements about this from Jesus.

 

[Sam48]

Jesus, as far as we know, never said anything about "homosexuality" or about same-sex relationships. So you make the choice to reject same-sex relationships on the basis of no known statements about this from Jesus.

It's in the OT.

 

[Ohioprof]

It's in the OT.

Yes, and Jesus did not write any of the Old Testament.

You need to be careful when you cite the Hebrew Scriptures, or Old Testament, because Leviticus calls for stoning to death a man who lies with another man as with a woman. Do you believe in stoning people to death? Somehow I doubt it.

Many Christians commonly ignore much of what is written in the Old Testament, and they rationalize it by saying that the New Testament supeceded the Old and makes some of it obsolete. That sounds like a rationalization for picking and choosing from the Old Testament, a rationalization some use to lift a few statements out of the OT and beat gay people over the head with them.

 

[OllieFranz]

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Sorry, but no it does not. Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 forbid Jewish men from being the "top" in one certain act, and quite possibly the ban may be restricted to certain circumstances. Romans 1 say that addiction, including sexual addiction is a consequence of turning away from God, but only singles out same-sex sexual addiction because the source Paul is quoting used a homosexual example just to "tweak" one specific reader. It is clear in the original source that the homosexuality is not the point of the criticism, except for that "tweak."

No where else is homosexuality forbidden (unless you count 1 Corinthians 6 and 1 Timothy 1).

Why, do you feel the need to lie to yourself? I'd rather follow Jesus.

Me too! That's why I don't lie to myself. I follow Jesus with whole my heart and soul, at least I try: and homosexuality is forbidden, period.

Homosexuality is a sin and people make a choice to do that act. It's not a choice wether you feel more attracted to people from the same gender. But you choose.'

(I'm 98% hetero and even if I feel attracted to a woman I want to follow Jesus instead of jumping that woman )

It's in the OT.

Again, the limited ban in Leviticus was only for the people of Israel, just like the dietary laws and Sabbath laws. Accoding to Acts 10, 11, and 15, and the letters of Paul (especially Romans, Galatians and the two letters to the Corinthians), Christians are not bound to those Jews-only "holiness" laws. There are no other OT verses condemning same-sex relationships. There are only three NT verses that seemto condemn it, but they don't.

 

[David Brider]

Homosexuality is a sin and people make a choice to do that act.

Homosexuality isn't an "act" (I assume you mean an action?), and it's not something that people choose.

David.

 

[Floatingaxe]

But of course it would never occur to you to consider that possibly, just possibly, you are the one who is blinded, would it?

No I am not blind. In fact the Holy Spirit is the great eye-opener!

 

[OllieFranz]

Yes, and He has opened my eyes to the fact that being gay is not a sin. He has opened my eyes to the fact that the Bible has never condemned homosexuality, beyond a ritual ban for the men of Israel as part of the holiness code of Leviticus.

Yes it has condemned individual acts that were homosexual, but not because they were homosexual, but because they were wrong for other reasons. Rape is wrong whether the victim is male or female. Idolatry is wrong whether or not sex is involved, but if sex is involved it does not matter whether the sex is gay or straight. Adultery, fornication and incest are wrong, regardless of the sex of the partners.

I consider myself to be a conservative Christian. That is the way I came to Christ, and that is the way I study the Bible. I believed that homosexuality was sin, because I had been told that God condemns it in the Bible. But it was as I studied the Bible that I was convicted that I was wrong, that God does not condemn homosexuality. It was not the leaning of my heart, or an attempt to "justify my sins" -- I was nevert tempted to consider engaging in homosexual activity. It was not persuasion from the liberal media, or the "gay agenda" -- I have a stronger sense of self and of truth than to be easily led astray. It was the Bible and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. I pray that you may open your heart to His teaching and cast off the wicked prejudices that hold you in bondage.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Yes, and He has opened my eyes to the fact that being gay is not a sin. He has opened my eyes to the fact that the Bible has never condemned homosexuality, beyond a ritual ban for the men of Israel as part of the holiness code of Leviticus.

Yes it has condemned individual acts that were homosexual, but not because they were homosexual, but because they were wrong for other reasons. Rape is wrong whether the victim is male or female. Idolatry is wrong whether or not sex is involved, but if sex is involved it does not matter whether the sex is gay or straight. Adultery, fornication and incest are wrong, regardless of the sex of the partners.

I consider myself to be a conservative Christian. That is the way I came to Christ, and that is the way I study the Bible. I believed that homosexuality was sin, because I had been told that God condemns it in the Bible. But it was as I studied the Bible that I was convicted that I was wrong, that God does not condemn homosexuality. It was not the leaning of my heart, or an attempt to "justify my sins" -- I was nevert tempted to consider engaging in homosexual activity. It was not persuasion from the liberal media, or the "gay agenda" -- I have a stronger sense of self and of truth than to be easily led astray. It was the Bible and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. I pray that you may open your heart to His teaching and cast off the wicked prejudices that hold you in bondage.

Somehow you have slipped off the narrow road. The Holy Spirit has not enlightened you. The devil has snared you.

Who have you allowed to deceive you so deeply?

 

[onemessiah]

First I think each person is 98% or so hetero and 2 or more % gay, sometime the other way around. But no one is ONLY heterosexual. I know saying this is dangerious.

Second, realising this every person can stuble on someone from the same sex and feel attracted but the TRICK is not to give in and go sin on this. The Lord has been clear it is wrong.

I've been wondering if I was homosexual or hetero and I'd say I'm both... probably way more hetero since in my past I've prefered men. Point is I KNOW the other side and I've CHOSEN to follow Christ and asked forgiveness for my sexual sins, which He had forbidden. Must say I hadn't really met Christ.

Each person can be tempted like me and if you don't know Christ you consider yourself a homosexual: when you do know Christ you have a CHOICE to follow the Lord, your Lord too and obey Him because He knows it all.

I have to disregard your statement that everyone is x-percent hetero/homo, because that is your opinion you have formed from your experiences, since you are attracted to both sides. But there is no scientific basis that I'm aware of that "everyone" is gay to a certain extent.

Anyway, if you are attracted to both men and women, then if you were going to be in a monogamous relationship with your partner, then obviously you would have to choose who you're going to be with. You can't be monogamous with both a man and woman at the same time. Since you would have been satisfied either way, assuming you met the right person, then I don't blame you for sticking with a hetero relationship. Saves you a ton of headaches and needless stress because of how people react towards gay relationships.

 

[walloffire]

Yes, and He has opened my eyes to the fact that being gay is not a sin. He has opened my eyes to the fact that the Bible has never condemned homosexuality, beyond a ritual ban for the men of Israel as part of the holiness code of Leviticus.

Yes it has condemned individual acts that were homosexual, but not because they were homosexual, but because they were wrong for other reasons. Rape is wrong whether the victim is male or female. Idolatry is wrong whether or not sex is involved, but if sex is involved it does not matter whether the sex is gay or straight. Adultery, fornication and incest are wrong, regardless of the sex of the partners.

I consider myself to be a conservative Christian. That is the way I came to Christ, and that is the way I study the Bible. I believed that homosexuality was sin, because I had been told that God condemns it in the Bible. But it was as I studied the Bible that I was convicted that I was wrong, that God does not condemn homosexuality. It was not the leaning of my heart, or an attempt to "justify my sins" -- I was nevert tempted to consider engaging in homosexual activity. It was not persuasion from the liberal media, or the "gay agenda" -- I have a stronger sense of self and of truth than to be easily led astray. It was the Bible and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. I pray that you may open your heart to His teaching and cast off the wicked prejudices that hold you in bondage.

The law condemns homosexuality because it is unfruitful and not profitable to mankind's perpetuity or continuation. If homosexuality could produce offspring, it would not be outlawed. However, the laws that WERE *back then* are still the same laws now, albeit we have been freed from the curse of sin and death by the gospel.

Yet still Jesus has made statements which exalt the law, (seeing as Jesus, being Lord, MADE the law) -

Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

What --I-- don't understand is why Christians so often toot the horn about homosexuality, but they speak nothing of covetousness or idolatry, both of which are very awful sins, or pride (hint hint christian peoplez), repent of pride, please. Jesus was meek, please, be meek. You can speak the truth with authority and still be meek.

 

[walloffire]

Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

coveted something? ------> guilty of all
killed someone? ------> guilty of all
didn't help an orphan? ------> guilty of all
not impartial in how you love your neighbor? ------> guilty of all
steal? ------> guilty of all
sex outside of marriage with the opposite sex? ------> guilty of all
sex outside of marriage with the same sex? ------> guilty of all

any questions peoplez?

quit looking for motes -- stop, for a moment, and remove the logs from your own eyes.

THEN you will see clearly to remove the mote from your neighbor's eye.

HEAR YE THE WORD OF THE LORD, YOU WHO CALL YOURSELVES CHRISTIANS YET SIN IN JUDGING OTHERS.

Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
Mat 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
Mat 7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Mat 7:4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
Mat 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

 

[walloffire]

Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

 

[OllieFranz]

The law condemns homosexuality because it is unfruitful and not profitable to mankind's perpetuity or continuation. If homosexuality could produce offspring, it would not be outlawed. However, the laws that WERE *back then* are still the same laws now, albeit we have been freed from the curse of sin and death by the gospel.

Yet still Jesus has made statements which exalt the law, (seeing as Jesus, being Lord, MADE the law) -

Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled*.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

What --I-- don't understand is why Christians so often toot the horn about homosexuality, but they speak nothing of covetousness or idolatry, both of which are very awful sins, or pride (hint hint christian peoplez), repent of pride, please. Jesus was meek, please, be meek. You can speak the truth with authority and still be meek.

*(emphasis added)

So, do you keep the kosher dietary laws? Do you avoid fabric blends? And do you keep all of the rest of the 613 mitzvoth? Or do you believe Acts 10-11, Acts 15, Romans, Galatians, and Colossians when they tell us that the purity laws of the Israelite people have been fulfilled in Christ?

 

[EnemyPartyII]

I don't pray that, because I haven't made any errors in this debate so far.

right.

like how the Bible is both completely literal and not completely literal?

Thats not an error.

 

[LLWHA]

Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

coveted something? ------> guilty of all
killed someone? ------> guilty of all
didn't help an orphan? ------> guilty of all
not impartial in how you love your neighbor? ------> guilty of all
steal? ------> guilty of all
sex outside of marriage with the opposite sex? ------> guilty of all
sex outside of marriage with the same sex? ------> guilty of all

any questions peoplez?

quit looking for motes -- stop, for a moment, and remove the logs from your own eyes.

THEN you will see clearly to remove the mote from your neighbor's eye.

HEAR YE THE WORD OF THE LORD, YOU WHO CALL YOURSELVES CHRISTIANS YET SIN IN JUDGING OTHERS.

Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
Mat 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
quote]



What Jesus was saying here is God gave us His Judgments and we as a people are not to step out of Gods Judgments.

People all over the earth today Judge by man made laws made up in places like the house of lords. This is what is forbidden!! Judging your fellow man on evil laws that satans servents made up and satan uses to rule over mankind.

You must not do this evil or have any part in it.


"Jesus was telling them not to judge their fellow man because that is God's job and He has given His Judgements by which men are to be judged and those judgements are written in the Song of Moses in the Torah, to which Jesus has told YOU to refer." JAH