Homosexuality

[TheFathersDaughter]

We are granted leaders and teachers to help edify the body, just as we're granted shepherds to lead the flock to the water of salvation.

A thing that is plainly repeated throughout the Bible is the dynamic of marriage between God and His Bride (Israel/Church), and man and wife. The overall source of all themes regarding marriage and covenant relationships in general lie in Genesis 2 and the created order, which brings to light the way God intended for man to approach Him (Covenant relationship), just as it brings to light the model of what marriage was intended to be (Covenant relationship). You can't have one without the other.

But that same concept can be applied in race disability too. The bible uses straight marriage as it's basis because most people are straight. It's more widely accepted because it's easier to understand. And remember, God didn't write the Bible. He inspired it. It's theme and it's presentation is written by prophets, teacher and disciples. Since all men are sinful and make mistakes, there is no evidence that can fully accept the Bible as infalliable. And onces again, it isn't neccesarily about what words say anything. Christianity is a relationship and a hope, not a religion.

 

[TheFathersDaughter]

SORRY THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF TALK GOING IN CIRCLES AND NO COMPREHENSION OR UNDERSTANDING AND SOME ON MY PART. THERE NEEDS TO BE BALANCE ON ARE THOUGHTS AND FIGURING OUT WHAT GOD SAYS AND WITH RESPECT

It's alright dear. =3 Just pointing it out.

 

[intricatic]

But that same concept can be applied in race disability too. The bible uses straight marriage as it's basis because most people are straight. It's more widely accepted because it's easier to understand. And remember, God didn't write the Bible. He inspired it. It's theme and it's presentation is written by prophets, teacher and disciples. Since all men are sinful and make mistakes, there is no evidence that can fully accept the Bible as infalliable. And onces again, it isn't neccesarily about what words say anything. Christianity is a relationship and a hope, not a religion.

If that's how you wish to approach it. The Bible is the foundation of Christian faith - that is, it's the foundation to our understanding of the covenant relationship granted to us by Christ's death on the Cross. The only way to understand what that implies is by the thematic unfolding of the relationship itself in the biblical text. God inspired scripture and guided it's design according to His will for mankind's future and (at the time) present hope for salvation. Man may make mistakes, but God does not.

But I would like to ask what you mean by this statement; But that same concept can be applied in race disability too.
I'm not sure what this has to do with the covenant relationship which takes it's origin in Genesis 2 and meets fulfillment in the marital union of Christ with the Church... could you elaborate?

 

[TheFathersDaughter]

If that's how you wish to approach it. The Bible is the foundation of Christian faith - that is, it's the foundation to our understanding of the covenant relationship granted to us by Christ's death on the Cross. The only way to understand what that implies is by the thematic unfolding of the relationship itself in the biblical text. God inspired scripture and guided it's design according to His will for mankind's future and (at the time) present hope for salvation. Man may make mistakes, but God does not.

But I would like to ask what you mean by this statement; But that same concept can be applied in race disability too.
I'm not sure what this has to do with the covenant relationship which takes it's origin in Genesis 2 and meets fulfillment in the marital union of Christ with the Church... could you elaborate?

Let me put it this way. If I asked you what color or nationality Adam and Eve were created as, what would you say? Likewise, were that mentally and physically perfect? The Bible implies that all of the personalities, all of the prophets, everyone is one nationality and none of them have any problems mentally or physically. So are we to say that being of a different race or being handicapped is a sin?

 

[davedjy]

Let me put it this way. If I asked you what color or nationality Adam and Eve were created as, what would you say? Likewise, were that mentally and physically perfect? The Bible implies that all of the personalities, all of the prophets, everyone is one nationality and none of them have any problems mentally or physically. So are we to say that being of a different race or being handicapped is a sin?

Exactly! this is what I just PM'd someone...the Bible assumes that the human creation model is perfect. There is absolutely no mode for hermphrodites, or any mention of orientation.

 

[intricatic]

Let me put it this way. If I asked you what color or nationality Adam and Eve were created as, what would you say? Likewise, were that mentally and physically perfect? The Bible implies that all of the personalities, all of the prophets, everyone is one nationality and none of them have any problems mentally or physically. So are we to say that being of a different race or being handicapped is a sin?

According to the Biblical account, the entire world is the progeny of Adam and Eve, collectively. According to Christ, individual circumstance (physical handicap, etc..) are not related to sin. According to the Pauline Epistles;

26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
(Galatians 3)

There isn't anything about one racial disposition. That's more related to environment and has nothing to do with a person's worth in Christ. The same as physical handicap.

Besides, I still don't see the relation. The Bible leads up to Christ and all the text points to Him for that specific reason (unfolded). Because it's possible to misinterpret scripture should actually be a strong case for why we should keep these things close to our hearts and minds - otherwise we may end up perverting the message ourselves, though with good intents gone astray.

 

[intricatic]

Exactly! this is what I just PM'd someone...the Bible assumes that the human creation model is perfect. There is absolutely no mode for hermphrodites, or any mention of orientation.

Actually....

I did say I wasn't going to get into this for a while, apologies.

 

[davedjy]

Actually....

I did say I wasn't going to get into this for a while, apologies.

You can...it just makes my side look better! Keep going!

 

[davedjy]

HERE WE GO AGAIN. YOU NEED TO READ THE WHOLE BIBLE


PEACE OUT AND GOOD LUCK MAY GOD IN LIGHT YOU WHEN YOU ARE READY.

I've been ready, I've read the whole Bible, I probably know more "clobber passages" than you do on this.

and why do you TALK IN CAPS LOCK LIKE THIS IT IS LIKE YOU ARE YELLING AT SOMEONE

 

[intricatic]

You can...it just makes my side look better! Keep going!

I really think the Church needs to get out of the habit of polarizing like that. It's another topic that really bugs me. lol

Have you read about eunuchs in the Bible?

 

[davedjy]

I really think the Church needs to get out of the habit of polarizing like that. It's another topic that really bugs me. lol

Have you read about eunuchs in the Bible?

Not in the Bible, but I've heard of them...why?

 

[intricatic]

Not in the Bible, but I've heard of them...why?

They're mentioned in a number of places throughout the Bible, and it's frequently brought up in the discussion of hermaphroditism. One of my favorites...

4 For thus says the LORD:
“ To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths,
And choose what pleases Me,
And hold fast My covenant,
5 Even to them I will give in My house
And within My walls a place and a name
Better than that of sons and daughters;
I will give them an everlasting name
That shall not be cut off.
6 “ Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the LORD, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the LORD, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant—
7 Even them I will bring to My holy mountain,
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices
Will be accepted on My altar;
For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations.”
8 The Lord GOD, who gathers the outcasts of Israel, says,
“ Yet I will gather to him
Others besides those who are gathered to him.”
(Isaiah 56)

I'm sure you've read the passage where Christ discusses them, as well, no?

 

[davedjy]

They're mentioned in a number of places throughout the Bible, and it's frequently brought up in the discussion of hermaphroditism. One of my favorites...



I'm sure you've read the passage where Christ discusses them, as well, no?

Being castrated is not the same as a hermaphrodite.

Hermahprodites have BOTH sex organs, not CUT OFF testicles.

 

[intricatic]

Being castrated is not the same as a hermaphrodite.

Hermahprodites have BOTH sex organs, not CUT OFF testicles.

I'm not trying to be offensive here. I'm just discussing this issue because it's something I looked into a great deal. Eunuchs weren't necessarily castrated, some were born that way and given to the same trade as the ones who were castrated - they generally worked in harems and helped to tend to women because it was thought they could be trusted around women (for implicit reasons).

8 He said to them, “Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery.”
10 His disciples said to Him, “If such is the case of the man with his wife, it is better not to marry.”
11 But He said to them, “All cannot accept this saying, but only those to whom it has been given: 12 For there are eunuchs who were born thus from their mother’s womb, and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. He who is able to accept it, let him accept it.”
(Matthew 19)

Eunuch was generally seen as celibate in some way, but it mostly referred to either a natural inclination, or someone who was "made" to be that way through castration.

 

[davedjy]

I'm not trying to be offensive here. I'm just discussing this issue because it's something I looked into a great deal. Eunuchs weren't necessarily castrated, some were born that way and given to the same trade as the ones who were castrated - they generally worked in harems and helped to tend to women because it was thought they could be trusted around women (for implicit reasons).



Eunuch was generally seen as celibate in some way, but it mostly referred to either a natural inclination, or someone who was "made" to be that way through castration.

I don't see what bearing that has here though? some legalism that doesn't really pertain to whether a gay person should stay celibate or not. The reasoning behind it would seem extremely silly.

 

[intricatic]

I don't see what bearing that has here though? some legalism that doesn't really pertain to whether a gay person should stay celibate or not. The reasoning behind it would seem extremely silly.

I haven't presented an argument. I don't promote legalism. If one choses to look at the Bible in search of legal code, that's what they'll find there.

 

[davedjy]

I haven't presented an argument. I don't promote legalism. If one choses to look at the Bible in search of legal code, that's what they'll find there.

Your posts are very unpredictable...

 

[intricatic]

Your posts are very unpredictable...

Thank you. I pride myself on that. Please see avatar caption: I am.... Babble Boy.

 

[intricatic]

Exactly! this is what I just PM'd someone...the Bible assumes that the human creation model is perfect. There is absolutely no mode for hermphrodites, or any mention of orientation.

I was actually bringing that up in reply to this post.

 

[savedandhappy1]

Exodus is a very DANGEROUS program! I have many cited examples of how unethical they are. Any organization that goes against the UNBIASED ethics of all credible mental health foundations, plus the staggering rate of depression and suicide rates. The founding member has been spotted in gay bars recently...these people are liars and are hurting others w/scams and making lots of $$$$$$$$ in the process.

People are killing themselves because they think God hates their thoughts and attractions as "sin", and that they will go to hell. They are not! and the sheer proof is that any creation that has a more sophisticated society is more likely to have homosexuality. It is a symbol of sophistication on a social level.

I have heard the stories of pastors that went into bars to witness, and were accused of drinking, etc.

Is it right to say that because someone is in a gay bar they are there for homosexual companionship? Or are they there witnessing? Unless you are there can we really say why anyone is in a certain spot? Even if you are there, well appearances aren't always what they seem, are they?
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