Homosexuality

[EnemyPartyII]

Ever seen a kangaroo? Those must be cute!

Um, they're all over the place

 

[Myriah]

Um, they're all over the place

How cool! I'd like to visit one day.

What is happening on the legal end of same sex unions in Australia? Are they voting? Have they voted? What's going on?

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Ah- so now we are getting somewhere- you dont want what is marriage- you want legal, social, and spiritual recognition. You want something from others because of your relationship- right?

Legal: you can arrange all of this now through an attorney, without changing the definition of marriage for everyone.

Social: Tell your friends you are in a lifelong commitment.

Spiritual: God calls the homosexual act a sin.

Thats your answer?

Would you make a similar blas'e statement to a heterosexual couple?

a)legal Why should I have to make special legal arrangements when people who's only difference to me is their sexual orientation, have a defined legal relationship, not only defined, but legislated and protected by civil and common law?

b) Its not about just "telling my friends"... a man and a woman can walk into any business, government office, hospital, hotel, whatever in the country, and all they have to do is refer to themselves by the same last name, and they have INSTANT recognition and social acceptance. Why should I have to explain my situation specifically, and to cautious, or even downright hostile, stares from the person I'm explaining to, because of an accident of neurochemistry?

c)God never mentions the homosexual act. Leviticus (the tribal dictates of neolithic desert dwellers) does, but unless you obey all the other Levitical Laws, you have no right to single me out for breaking one. Rod in thine own and all that.

Paul, in SOME translations, appears as though he may be refering to homosexuality, but thats Paul's opinion, as we have discused before.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

What is happening on the legal end of same sex unions in Australia? Are they voting? Have they voted? What's going on?

same sex couples are accorded the same rights as de facto couples for purposes of legal settlement and taxation, but are not recognised as married, and do not have the same legal protections as married people in terms of settlement, property, or estate.

 

[IamAdopted]

Thats your answer?

Would you make a similar blas'e statement to a heterosexual couple?

a)legal Why should I have to make special legal arrangements when people who's only difference to me is their sexual orientation, have a defined legal relationship, not only defined, but legislated and protected by civil and common law?

b) Its not about just "telling my friends"... a man and a woman can walk into any business, government office, hospital, hotel, whatever in the country, and all they have to do is refer to themselves by the same last name, and they have INSTANT recognition and social acceptance. Why should I have to explain my situation specifically, and to cautious, or even downright hostile, stares from the person I'm explaining to, because of an accident of neurochemistry?

c)God never mentions the homosexual act. Leviticus (the tribal dictates of neolithic desert dwellers) does, but unless you obey all the other Levitical Laws, you have no right to single me out for breaking one. Rod in thine own and all that.

Paul, in SOME translations, appears as though he may be refering to homosexuality, but thats Paul's opinion, as we have discused before.

And Pauls opinion is Gods opinion for He speaks with the Power of the Holy Spirit. So you may persuade the world and your family and the government but you will never persaude God for He is God.. And His word and truth shall reign forever.. For who is man that He should counsel God? For did not God create the Heavens and the earth? Did not God set up what is right and wrong In His eyes since He is the creator and we His creation. Just because you want this to be spiritually accepted It cannot for God has spoken His word and His standards and we as the creations are to humble ourselves before Him and Delcare Him to be God..

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Spiritual recongnition from whom?

So called "family values" conservatives who want to treat me as though I'm some sort of criminal or undesireable because of who I am.

You might as well tell people with B- blood that they are sinners

 

[EnemyPartyII]

And Pauls opinion is Gods opinion for He speaks with the Power of the Holy Spirit.

Says who? Paul...

Yet if I told you I speak with the power of the Holy Spirit, I doubt you'd believe me.

Did not God set up what is right and wrong In His eyes since He is the creator and we His creation

Indeed. And there is a LOGICAL reason behind every act considered sinful by God... except for homosexuality. Which leads me, logically, to conclude that God isn't actually against it.

 

[MercuryAndy]

Not by themselves they cant- further driving the point that without the help of the opposite sex- this is an impossibilty, proving the difference in the couples.

G

I cant have children by myself either.

 

[Gusoceros]

Thats your answer?

Yes

Would you make a similar blas'e statement to a heterosexual couple?

Friend- before we go down this path, I want you to know that I wish you all the happiness that a Christian Life will bring you. Please keep in mind, that I am also a sinner, and am not passing judgement- as I also need the Blood of Christ to save my sorry soul.

To the hetero couple- more specifically- the married couple- they are married whether there is legal, social, recognition. It is the spiritual recognition- God's Hand in the relationship, that makes the marriage binding. In the case of marriage- the legal, and social recognition is irrelevant, for the sake of whether or not someone is married. Granted, the government has management to do with the household, and the things that come with it for married couples- and our customs allow for ceremonies to celebrate the union of marriage- but neither of these 2 things, change what is marriage, rather they are extras that do not change marriage. It should not take too much trouble to see that the extras, are established because of the foundation- you change the foundation, and the extras dont fit right- as they were designed for something different- as I have already shown (the difference in the couple types). So- yes, the things you claim you want, are irrelevant to marriage- with the exception of Spiritual recognition- which is an integral part of what is marriage- and you cant have that in the capacity you want from God, with a same sex union anyway.

a)legal Why should I have to make special legal arrangements when people who's only difference to me is their sexual orientation, have a defined legal relationship, not only defined, but legislated and protected by civil and common law?

This is what business partners have to do- because their relationship does not qualify as marriage.

This is what boyfriend girlfriend have to do, because their relationship does not qualify as marriage.

This is what room-mates have to do- because their relationship does not qualify as marriage.

This is what unmarried family members have to do- because their relationship does not qualify as marriage.

b) Its not about just "telling my friends"... a man and a woman can walk into any business, government office, hospital, hotel, whatever in the country, and all they have to do is refer to themselves by the same last name, and they have INSTANT recognition and social acceptance. Why should I have to explain my situation specifically, and to cautious, or even downright hostile, stares from the person I'm explaining to, because of an accident of neurochemistry?

Because it is not the same. All of the examples above, have to deal with the same differences in their dealings. If you want the benefits of marriage- get married, if you want a same sex union- you will at some point have to deal with the fact, that it is different.

Additionally, we are not judged by our desires and temptations- rather we are judged by what we do with them. We all have different desires- it is our call as Christians to die to our flesh- and God will give us NEW desires, the desires of our heart- that is what it is to have Christ in us. You are not judged by God because of your "accident of neurochemistry", rather by what you do with it. It is the same with heterocouples- we are not judged by desiring another, rather by what we do with it. The act of sin, is ultimately a choice.

c)God never mentions the homosexual act. Leviticus (the tribal dictates of neolithic desert dwellers) does, but unless you obey all the other Levitical Laws, you have no right to single me out for breaking one. Rod in thine own and all that.

We have covered this already- and I have cited specific scripture that addresses this. God is quite clear in both testaments, on His position with regard to the homosexual act.

Paul, in SOME translations, appears as though he may be refering to homosexuality, but thats Paul's opinion, as we have discused before.

No- this is your opinion. The Bible also speaks to misrepresenting Scripture as sin. It matters if what you believe is right.

G

 

[IamAdopted]

Says who? Paul...

Yet if I told you I speak with the power of the Holy Spirit, I doubt you'd believe me.

Indeed. And there is a LOGICAL reason behind every act considered sinful by God... except for homosexuality. Which leads me, logically, to conclude that God isn't actually against it.

No Jesus promised the Apostles the Power from on High..Jesus himself said this..

13"But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.

So if Paul is saying do not be deceived He is speaking truth. For Jesus declared this..

 

[EnemyPartyII]

No Jesus promised the Apostles the Power from on High..Jesus himself said this..

So... why is Paul, who never even met Jesus... an Apostle?

So if Paul is saying do not be deceived He is speaking truth. For Jesus declared this..

Capter and verse where Jesus said anything about the authority of Paul please?

 

[Gusoceros]

So... why is Paul, who never even met Jesus... an Apostle?

Because God is the one that chooses His workers- in general, God doesnt ask for permission before He appoints people to positions.

Capter and verse where Jesus said anything about the authority of Paul please?

Chapter and verse that says that only the printed Words of Jesus are what define who is an Apostle.

G

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Because God is the one that chooses His workers- in general, God doesnt ask for permission before He appoints people to positions.

Of course not. But other than the location of where you are most likely to find Paul's writings, what makes you think God chose him to be an Apostle?

Chapter and verse that says that only the printed Words of Jesus are what define who is an Apostle.

Please, define for me apostle then?

 

[EnemyPartyII]

The name Apostle denotes principally one of the twelve disciples who, on a solemn occasion, were called by Christ to a special mission. In the Gospels, however, those disciples are often designated by the expressions of mathetai (the disciples) or dodeka (the Twelve) and, after the treason and death of Judas, even of hendeka (the Eleven). In the Synoptics the name Apostle occurs but seldom with this meaning; only once in Matthew and Mark. But in other books of the New Testament, chiefly in the Epistles of St. Paul and in the Acts, this use of the word is current. Saul of Tarsus, being miraculously converted, and called to preach the Gospel to the heathens, claimed with much insistency this title and its rights.
In the Epistle to the Hebrews (iii, 1) the name is applied even to Christ, in the original meaning of a delegate sent from God to preach revealed truth to the world.
The word Apostle has also in the New Testament a larger meaning, and denotes some inferior disciples who, under the direction of the Apostles, preached the Gospel, or contributed to its diffusion; thus Barnabas (Acts 14:4, 14), probably Andronicus and Junias (Romans 16:7), Epaphroditus (Phil., ii, 25), two unknown Christians who were delegated for the collection in Corinth (2 Corinthians 7:23). We know not why the honourable name of Apostle is not given to such illustrious missionaries as Timothy, Titus, and others who would equally merit it.

Wow. So, who is it says Paul is an Apostle?

Paul.

Well if thats all it takes, I'm an Apostle too. Therefore, my word is Holy Scripture. And if you don't believe me, your sining.

 

[IamAdopted]

So... why is Paul, who never even met Jesus... an Apostle?

Capter and verse where Jesus said anything about the authority of Paul please?

Paul did meet Jesus.. In fact Jesus made Him blind..So therefore Jesus was the one whom chose Paul. Paul did not choose to be an apostle.. Jesus chose Him to be..When Christ chose Paul He sent him to minister to the gentiles.. Paul being a Jew no less did as commaned of the Lord..

 

[Gusoceros]

Of course not. But other than the location of where you are most likely to find Paul's writings, what makes you think God chose him to be an Apostle?

When Jesus appeared before him, and struck him blind, and asked him into service.

Please, define for me apostle then?

Apostle
Greek: "apostolos" / a person sent by another; a messenger; envoy

This word is once used as a descriptive designation of Jesus Christ, the Sent of the Father (Hebrews 3:1; John 20:21). It is, however, generally used as designating the body of disciples to whom he entrusted the organization of his church and the dissemination of his gospel, "the twelve," as they are called (Matt. 10:1-5; Mark 3:14; 6:7; Luke 6:13; 9:1).

We have four lists of the apostles, one by each of the synoptic evangelists (Matt. 10:2-4; Mark 3:16; Luke 6:14), and one in the Acts (1:13). No two of these lists, however, perfectly coincide.

Our Lord gave them the "keys of the kingdom," and by the gift of his Spirit equipped them to be the founders and governors of his church (John 14:16,17, 26; 15:26,27; 16:7-15). As representatives of his church, he commissioned them to "preach the gospel to every creature" (Matt. 28:18-20). After his ascension, he gave them supernatural gifts, as he promised, enabling them to perform their duties (Acts 2:4; 1 Cor. 2:16; 2:7,10,13; 2 Cor. 5:20; 1 Cor. 11:2).

Judas Iscariot, one of "the twelve," fell by betraying Jesus, and Matthias was his replacement (Acts 1:21). Saul of Tarsus was afterwards added to their number (Acts 9:3-20; 20:4; 26:15-18; 1 Tim. 1:12; 2:7; 2 Tim. 1:11).

Luke recorded what happened to Peter, John, and the two Jameses (Acts 12:2, 17; 15:13; 21:18), but beyond this we know nothing definite about the rest of the original twelve. After the martyrdom of James the Greater (Acts 12:2), James the Less usually resided at Jerusalem, while Paul, "the apostle of the uncircumcision," usually travelled as a missionary among the Gentiles (Gal. 2:8).

Qualifications for apostleship:

that they should have seen the Lord, and been able to testify of him and of his resurrection from personal knowledge (John 15:27; Acts 1:21-22; 1 Cor. 9:1; Acts 22:14-15)

They must have been immediately called to that office by Christ (Luke 6:13; Gal. 1:1).

It was essential that they should be infallibly inspired, and thus protected against error and mistake in their public teaching, whether by word or by writing (John 14:26; 16:13; 1 Thess. 2:13).

Another qualification was the power of working miracles (Mark 16:20; Acts 2:43; 1 Cor. 12:8-11). The apostles therefore could have had no successors. They are the only authoritative teachers of the Christian doctrines. The office of an apostle ceased with its first holders.

In two instances, the Greek word "apostolos" is not translated as "apostle," but rather as "messenger" or "representative" (2 Cor. 8:23 and Phil. 2:25).

Author: Matthew G. Easton, edited by Paul S. Taylor.

 

[IamAdopted]

3As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. 4He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?"

5"Who are you, Lord?" Saul asked. "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting," he replied. 6"Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do."

This is where Saul met Jesus. Now He is known as Paul

 

[Gusoceros]

Enemy Party- have you missed this post? http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=32174628&postcount=489

 

[Myriah]

It's called the Road to Damascus experience EnemyPartyII, which "Paul" encountered. Paul was chosen by Christ. Paul spread the Gospel message to many, many nations. We all should be grateful to Paul. Paul ran around all over the place reaching all kinds of Gentiles too, especially, through all kinds of peril including ship wrecks and imprisonment.

Also some of Paul's writings have brought me to tears. These are inspired writings, as I know my tears were from the heart of me.

But, if you chose to discredit Paul, that is your decision alone to make for your life. One cannot be forced to read any parts of the Bible; it's a choice, and it's effort and work to study the scriptures, as scripture has many layers, as intricatic was trying to point out with the types and antitypes, etc.

 

[davedjy]

In actuality- my point has been made- and that is, that there is a HUGE difference between same sex couples, and hetero couples. Your positioning to make the point of procreation a menial side point aside- does not minimize the difference, or the design, or the impact of it. The difference is so great- that with same sex couples only, our entire race would die out- there would be no more children.

To the point of "what about sterile couples???" anomolies dont undo design, or the difference- this is not a valid argument against why the couples are different.

In addition to procreation, I cited a few other differences between the 2 couples in my essay. Procreation is a big enough reason to cite complete difference between the 2 couples though. What that means is this: the 2 couple types- are not the same.

G

Well, guess what...that is of little concern because we are all different. Do you see a problem with our race to die out? the planet is over populated, and we make up a very small/minority portion of the population.

That's like saying "we can't have all you people be blind, then we won't have doctors, firemen and lawyers for our future~!!!!!"

Stop w/the procreation points. Even couples that can reproduce and wish to not have kids either wear condoms, use birth control or get an operation.