Homosexuality

[Gusoceros]

Is this penned by God, too like all you people who believe it is "the actual Word of God"?

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

How about this one?

(Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)

If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.

Do you understand the relationship of the Law and Jesus?

 

[Gusoceros]

No. You are being deliberately contrarian...

The Bible, in its entirety, is written by man. Some of those wruitings, are the documentations of man's interaction with God, but some of it fails to logically link up with what we know about God.

This is where we need to stop- you are now asserting, that what you know about God, trumps what the Bible says. This puts me in the position of determining whether you are right, or the Bible.

Which should I choose?

 

[davedjy]

Do you understand the relationship of the Law and Jesus?

Yes, what I understand is HISTORICAL context, none of which you have provided. At least my beliefs fall under a category that takes Pagan Worship into the account of why they were turned up.

 

[Gusoceros]

Yes, what I understand is HISTORICAL context, none of which you have provided. At least my beliefs fall under a category that takes Pagan Worship into the account of why they were turned up.

You understand that Jesus fulfilled the Law?

 

[davedjy]

You understand that Jesus fulfilled the Law?

Where did Jesus condemn slavery?

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Which should I choose?

Well, what I WISH you would choose is to stop focusing on the obviously intential tangent/red herring, and answer my question

"what is the difference between a childless heterosexual couple and a homosexual couple"

However, so you can't say I'M dodging the question...

This is where we need to stop- you are now asserting, that what you know about God, trumps what the Bible says. This puts me in the position of determining whether you are right, or the Bible.

a)Like Paul says, all scripture is good for teaching. Note this is NOT the same as "all scripture is literal truth"

b)What we know about God comes from what God especially in the person of Jesus, has told us about God. Theological knowledge derives from Jesus and the Holy Spirit, NOT some book.

c) God gave us brains and inteligence for a reason. I see nothing wrong with reading the Bible, and interpreting it appropriately, knowing how the author's context may have acted on him. Otherwise we are left trying to make sense of a book that LITERALLY SAYS "God is Love" AND "God is going to burn the vast majority of all humans in Hell for all eternity, has no problem ordering the slaughter of innocents, and birds have 4 legs"

So, I'm happy to get into a debate with you about Biblical literalism, but this is NOT the thread for it.

Answer my question now, please.

 

[Gusoceros]

Where did Jesus condemn slavery?

Did Jesus fulfill the Law?

Yes or No

 

[davedjy]

Did Jesus fulfill the Law?

Yes or No

He fufilled the law, but that has nothing to do with him condemning slavery or not. I'm talking about historical context w/homosexual behavior, and you are talking about laws, you are off-topic.

 

[Gusoceros]

Well, what I WISH you would choose is to stop focusing on the obviously intential tangent/red herring, and answer my question

"what is the difference between a childless heterosexual couple and a homosexual couple"

However, so you can't say I'M dodging the question...



a)Like Paul says, all scripture is good for teaching. Note this is NOT the same as "all scripture is literal truth"

b)What we know about God comes from what God especially in the person of Jesus, has told us about God. Theological knowledge derives from Jesus and the Holy Spirit, NOT some book.

c) God gave us brains and inteligence for a reason. I see nothing wrong with reading the Bible, and interpreting it appropriately, knowing how the author's context may have acted on him. Otherwise we are left trying to make sense of a book that LITERALLY SAYS "God is Love" AND "God is going to burn the vast majority of all humans in Hell for all eternity, has no problem ordering the slaughter of innocents, and birds have 4 legs"

So, I'm happy to get into a debate with you about Biblical literalism, but this is NOT the thread for it.

Answer my question now, please.

God has placed apostles, prophets, evangelists, teachers, etc- to bring His Word to the people, in addition to the Holy Spirit. To deny the Scriptural Authority AND the Authority of the office's of those that wrote God's Word into Scripture in one fell swoop- makes one wonder- what reference are we actually dealing with here? It sounds like a personal religion- although I do not presume to speak for you. If I have a misunderstanding on your faith, please correct me.

Im not arguing Biblical literalism.

Of course God gave us brains and intelligence. This does not mean that what God says, no longer is true- all of it.

G

 

[EnemyPartyII]

God has placed apostles, prophets, evangelists, teachers, etc- to bring His Word to the people, in addition to the Holy Spirit. To deny the Scriptural Authority AND the Authority of the office's of those that wrote God's Word into Scripture in one fell swoop- makes one wonder- what reference are we actually dealing with here? It sounds like a personal religion- although I do not presume to speak for you. If I have a misunderstanding on your faith, please correct me.

Your totally missing my point... WHO SAYS Paul's writings should be included in the cannon of Scripture?

And you STILL havn't answered my question!

 

[Gusoceros]

Your totally missing my point... WHO SAYS Paul's writings should be included in the cannon of Scripture?

And you STILL havn't answered my question!

God did, when He made Paul an Apostle.

I already answered your question, with my essay on the differences.

G

 

[EnemyPartyII]

God did, when He made Paul an Apostle.

So all Apostle's writings may be considered scripture? Then why isn't the "Gospel of Thomas" in the Bible?

I already answered your question, with my essay on the differences.

I read your essay... and, like I said, there was nothing you said that is the exclusive preserve of heterosexual couples. So I'm still waiting to hear what the difference is?

 

[Gusoceros]

So all Apostle's writings may be considered scripture? Then why isn't the "Gospel of Thomas" in the Bible?

Great point- even Jude died. Not all that claim to be Apostles, actually represent the Truth of the Gospel- i.e. a consistent Gosepl message.

I read your essay... and, like I said, there was nothing you said that is the exclusive preserve of heterosexual couples. So I'm still waiting to hear what the difference is?

You cant be serious- name me one same sex couple that can procreate, and I will answer your question.

G

 

[Myriah]

So all Apostle's writings may be considered scripture? Then why isn't the "Gospel of Thomas" in the Bible?

I read your essay... and, like I said, there was nothing you said that is the exclusive preserve of heterosexual couples. So I'm still waiting to hear what the difference is?

The NT is canonized on the following criteria for any NT "books" to be included in the Bible.

1) The writings must connect to the OT and NT.

2) The writings must connect to something Jesus said or did.

For instance, The Gospel of Judas recently found said things such as "they want to become stars like the angels" -- there is no connection to anything in scripture like that. The scriptures say we will be "like the angels at the resurrection", but nothing about being "stars".

The scriptures must connect. The above two are the main criteria, though the others can be researched on the internet and are much more entailed.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

You cant be serious- name me one same sex couple that can procreate, and I will answer your question.

Name me one infertile heterosexual couple that can procreate, or explain to me what the difference between a heterosexual couple with no kids, and a homosexual couple is?

and, although it isn't possible for the two of us to do so without outside assistance, if my partner and I chose the IVF, adoption, surrogacy or similar routes to become parents, would that make us MORE married than a childless heterosexual couple?

 

[Gusoceros]

Name me one infertile heterosexual couple that can procreate, or explain to me what the difference between a heterosexual couple with no kids, and a homosexual couple is?

and, although it isn't possible for the two of us to do so without outside assistance, if my partner and I chose the IVF, adoption, surrogacy or similar routes to become parents, would that make us MORE married than a childless heterosexual couple?

Design

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Design

Ah. So, can I accept this as a tacit admission that your contempt for homosexuals is based on nothing more than your personal opinion, rather than any actual logical reason?

 

[davedjy]

Great point- even Jude died. Not all that claim to be Apostles, actually represent the Truth of the Gospel- i.e. a consistent Gosepl message.



You cant be serious- name me one same sex couple that can procreate, and I will answer your question.

G

Right, because heterosexual's only purpose is to "procreate"

What does Jesus say about oral, anal, and birth control w/opposite sex couples? What does Jesus say about condoms, did he invent those? What does Jesus say about birth control pills????

Answer me! answer me now LOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Gusoceros]

Ah. So, can I accept this as a tacit admission that your contempt for homosexuals is based on nothing more than your personal opinion, rather than any actual logical reason?

To the contrary- you can accept this as the reason that a married couple is different than a same sex couple- which was the purpose for which I presented the essay.

My contempt lies with the act- which is a sin.

G

 

[Gusoceros]

Right, because heterosexual's only purpose is to "procreate"

What does Jesus say about oral, anal, and birth control w/opposite sex couples? What does Jesus say about condoms, did he invent those? What does Jesus say about birth control pills????

Answer me! answer me now LOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!

Who said the only purpose of a heterosexual couple is to procreate?

I mean really-

G