Homosexuality

[davedjy]

and the first epistle of John says that there are varying degrees of sin, some which do not compromise salvation, and some that do.

[bible]1 john 5:16-17[/bible]

I agree...but I don't see homosexuality in there as one that is "higher" than the rest. There are no Biblical examples of this. Doesn't that verse just mean that certain sins were worthy of death? I can see how varying sins have different weights in punishment on this earth, but I don't see that as a reference of anything else?

 

[ScottBot]

I agree...but I don't see homosexuality in there as one that is "higher" than the rest. There are no Biblical examples of this. Doesn't that verse just mean that certain sins were worthy of death? I can see how varying sins have different weights in punishment on this earth, but I don't see that as a reference of anything else?

It says that there is sin that leads to death, spiritual death, i.e. eternal damnation. There is also other sin which does not.

 

[davedjy]

It says that there is sin that leads to death, spiritual death, i.e. eternal damnation. There is also other sin which does not.

Well, I guess drunkards is just as serious as well, that was in the same verse in Corinthians. I always thought the Bible said that God sees sin as sin, and once you break one of the commandments, you have broken them all.

 

[sunlover1]

But it is NOT a choice. Do you know most if not all men find out about the ages of 12-15? I doubt Jesus would condemn all teenagers to hell because it is something they couldn't help. Do you think people want to be gay?? It is too hard in this life. I have sympathy towards gay people, and I'm sure Christ would also.
Just read the Old Testament when everyone slept with everyone.

I agree, they're oppressed of the devil, deceived.

 

[sunlover1]

Well, I guess drunkards is just as serious as well, that was in the same verse in Corinthians. I always thought the Bible said that God sees sin as sin, and once you break one of the commandments, you have broken them all.

Yes, sin is sin.


Romans 2:3-6
3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

 

[ScottBot]

Well, I guess drunkards is just as serious as well, that was in the same verse in Corinthians. I always thought the Bible said that God sees sin as sin, and once you break one of the commandments, you have broken them all.

There's a commandment against being a drunkard? Where?

 

[davedjy]

There's a commandment against being a drunkard? Where?

It's right in the same one as the one that everyone keeps using the homosexual one!

1 Cor 6:9-10--

now ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[savedandhappy1]

How are you certain that verse isn't talking about naturally born straight men turning for the same sex? and yeah, the word for homosexual back then was "paisserrate" or something. I did a study in another post.

I guess I would have to ask what you mean by turning?

Romans 1:27
27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

Are you thinking this only means that some of the hetrosexuals started burning in lust for someone of the same sex, but isn't talking about people who feel they always burned for someone of the same sex?

Lets see the devil told Eve that she would be as smart as God if she ate the fruit from the tree of knowledge. Then adding that she wouldn't really die, like God told her, she ate.

Now I see him telling people that homosexuality was only wrong back then and not now because they really didn't love each other back then. Don't know why they couldn't love back then as now, but people seem to think they couldn't.

Or he tells us it was misinterpretation that has caused this misunderstanding, and that Jesus never mentioned it so can't be wrong. Even tho He plainly told us marriage is between a man and a woman, but that doesn't mean that He is saying it is wrong for a man to marry a man?

Since Jesus preached of love, that is just what they are doing, the devil says, and so we are told if we don't agree we are going aganist His preaching of love.

They aren't hurting anyone and are consenting adults, so why would it be wrong?

If it feels good it can't be wrong, because the Lord wants us to be happy.

The Lord is all about love and so no one will be sent to hell.

God is the creator and so He created us this way.

Romans 1:25
25Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

This is what I see and how I feel everytime somone makes a statement like those I posted above. I see the truth of God changed into a lie, by the great deceiver, just like when he was in the garden.

I will continue to pray that I will get the wisdom, understanding and discernment that can only come for the Lord on this and so many other issues today.

I will also pray that everyone will do the same, and that hopefully whoever is being deceived will seek and find the truth that is needed in these last days.

Again, I don't see that we are covering any new ground, so will leave this to those who feel there is ground that hasn't been covered yet.

God Bless!!
​

 

[davedjy]

I guess I would have to ask what you mean by turning?

Romans 1:27
27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with menworking that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.​

I highlighted the part which I was stating. It basically implies they were having sex w/woman to start, by saying "leaving" the natural use.

Are you thinking this only means that some of the hetrosexuals started burning in lust for someone of the same sex, but isn't talking about people who feel they always burned for someone of the same sex?

That is exactly what I think the verse is referring to.

Now I see him telling people that homosexuality was only wrong back then and not now because they really didn't love each other back then. Don't know why they couldn't love back then as now, but people seem to think they couldn't.

The word for homosexual wasn't even referred to, and that is why quite a few think it is talking in terms of pedophiles or something else. Everyone keeps point out that two men lying together is an abomination, but no one takes a part the fact it isn't referred to as a moral code violation. If you are wearing clothing of mixed fabrics, that is another "ceremonial" violation.

Or he tells us it was misinterpretation that has caused this misunderstanding, and that Jesus never mentioned it so can't be wrong. Even tho He plainly told us marriage is between a man and a woman, but that doesn't mean that He is saying it is wrong for a man to marry a man?

The books in the Christian Scriptures were all written before 100 CE (according to most conservative Christians) or 150 CE (according to most liberal Christians). The concept of homosexuality as a sexual orientation that could lead to a committed, long term relationship was not developed until the late 19th century. Thus, one can not expect to find biblical references to same-sex marriage.

Since Jesus preached of love, that is just what they are doing, the devil says, and so we are told if we don't agree we are going aganist His preaching of love.

Your beliefs on this subject should be respected regardless, of what others think.

They aren't hurting anyone and are consenting adults, so why would it be wrong?

I don't think that is the justification for it at all. The Scriptures and interpretations have all been broken down, and some believe they are meaning something else.

The Lord is all about love and so no one will be sent to hell.

That would be Universal Salvation...the points being brought here, don't even need to argue that point to show the interpretations that have been made.

God is the creator and so He created us this way.

He created this way..but does He have a hand in creating hermaphrodites, people with birth defects, born into AIDS, etc?​

 

[ScottBot]

It's right in the same one as the one that everyone keeps using the homosexual one!

1 Cor 6:9-10--

now ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

I didn't know Paul had the authority to lay down new COMMANDMENTS.

 

[davedjy]

I didn't know Paul had the authority to lay down new COMMANDMENTS.

Then where is the commandment against homosexuality? LOL

 

[mysterychristian]

If that's all we need, then we can reduce the bible to an index card. There's alot more to salvation than 2 sentences.

Salvation initially starts with the new birth, receiving holy spirit, which is eternal life, that's what Romans 10:9,10 gives you, that is what makes a man saved, which is the word sozo, made whole.

Before according to ephesians ye were dead, in sins and trespasses, but now we are alive in Christ.

The unsaved man is one of body and soul, a natural man the word says, we have body soul and spirit as Christians, we have what adam lost, spirit life, holy spirit, adam's was conditional, he disobeyed and died spiritually but lived in his physical body for a total of 930 years, but God said that in that day ye eat of it ye shall surely die, yet if you read on you see he keep on living, what's the answer to that, did God lie?

Of course not, people just don't understand, true life, what God calls true life, is spiritual life. Which is only regained when you receive holy spirit. In Ephesians 1:11-14 it says ye are sealed with it!

So, yes it is that simple. God's not into making eternal life, hard, it's by believing.

There is more salvation (wholeness) available, beyond the new birth, that's where the renewed mind of romans kicks in, building the mind of Christ, getting rid of all the crap that's been built up in there not qaccording to the word, then becoming more sound, whole mentally and physically

You are loved of God

 

[SoldierKG]

You know what young man, if you call the way you speak to people Christlike then you are speaking of someone I don't know.​

I do hope you have and show respect for and to the Lord, because frankly if you think your smart mouth and disrespectful nonsense makes you all grown up well you are sadly mistaken.​

If my son would have spoke to me or any adult the way you have spoken to many here, he would still be grounded and would still be blowing soap bubbles out of his mouth, and he is 29 yrs. old.​

Anyhow you aren't my son, but I will still lift you up to the Lord, because He is the only answer to your questions, and your life.​

Well the only answer you should listen to I guess I should say.​

And here is your scripture.​

Matt 7:6-8​

6Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.​

7Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:​

8For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.​

Well you would be wrong. "Do not let anyone look down on you because you are young." Maybe if people like YOU would spend more time listening to children like me, instead of glroifying your pride and calling me disrespectful the church might actually go somewhere. it is people like you who are so full of their prideful adulthood that they feel that should a child recognize something they didn't then it is true. dear boy, you need to learn some respect for your fellow man. "If anyone wishes to inherit the Kingdom of Heaven he must become like one of these {children}" So now I have lots of respect for God, and I hear him speak over my own pride. Please take no offense to my post, I mean it in love, and all, but please heed my words. Listen to the word of God, and maybe together (despite our combined pride), we can move forward with the church, and take people to new levels of faith. Instead of paying attention to old ways of hardened old men, who decided their opinions out of pride and mislead discernment.


God Bless,
Soldier.

9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

As to you, read the verse again. It says homosexual offenders exactly what I was saying it says one who committed the act not one who considers it. Please don't post such scripture for your argument lest it says that a homosexual (one that has not committed a homosexual act) is sinning in being one.

God Bless,
Soldier.

 

[savedandhappy1]

It says that there is sin that leads to death, spiritual death, i.e. eternal damnation. There is also other sin which does not.

Yes, but doesn't the Bible tell us that there is only 1 sin that we can't be forgiven for?

I will look the verse up if you need me to, but I believe blaspheming of the Holy Spirit, is the only sin that there is no forgiveness for.

 

[imind]

"homosexual offenders" is a gross mis-translation, anyway.

 

[savedandhappy1]

Well you would be wrong. "Do not let anyone look down on you because you are young." Maybe if people like YOU would spend more time listening to children like me, instead of glroifying your pride and calling me disrespectful the church might actually go somewhere. it is people like you who are so full of their prideful adulthood that they feel that should a child recognize something they didn't then it is true. dear boy, you need to learn some respect for your fellow man. "If anyone wishes to inherit the Kingdom of Heaven he must become like one of these {children}" So now I have lots of respect for God, and I hear him speak over my own pride.

I am wrong that the Lord is the only answer you need?

We should probably look at what Jesus was meaning when He was telling us to be like the little ones. Since it was about their innocence, trusting, and surrendering, not arrogance, but that would need to be done in another thread.

Also if you will re-read my post I never said you shouldn't speak or that young people should be seen and not heard. All I said was the way you address people is wrong. It also doesn't have anything to do with age since there are rude and arrogant people in every age group.

Please take no offense to my post, I mean it in love, and all, but please heed my words. Listen to the word of God, and maybe together (despite our combined pride), we can move forward with the church, and take people to new levels of faith. Instead of paying attention to old ways of hardened old men, who decided their opinions out of pride and mislead discernment.

Not really sure how to even approach this part of your post, and even if I took some of it as you really meaning it, well..........

All I will say is I am praying for you, and have a good night.

 

[SoldierKG]

You know what young man, if you call the way you speak to people Christlike then you are speaking of someone I don't know.​

I do hope you have and show respect for and to the Lord, because frankly if you think your smart mouth and disrespectful nonsense makes you all grown up well you are sadly mistaken.​

If my son would have spoke to me or any adult the way you have spoken to many here, he would still be grounded and would still be blowing soap bubbles out of his mouth, and he is 29 yrs. old.​

How should I have interpreted that. I spoke the truth in all my posts. If you find it disrespectful than take it up with God. I am not arrogant, I am merely a messenger of God to the Christian church, and part of my calling is to fix twisted and crroked ideas and hatreds that are within the body. ShiryehKadehs Elayacalon.

 

[ScottBot]

Salvation initially starts with the new birth, receiving holy spirit, which is eternal life, that's what Romans 10:9,10 gives you, that is what makes a man saved, which is the word sozo, made whole.

Before according to ephesians ye were dead, in sins and trespasses, but now we are alive in Christ.

The unsaved man is one of body and soul, a natural man the word says, we have body soul and spirit as Christians, we have what adam lost, spirit life, holy spirit, adam's was conditional, he disobeyed and died spiritually but lived in his physical body for a total of 930 years, but God said that in that day ye eat of it ye shall surely die, yet if you read on you see he keep on living, what's the answer to that, did God lie?

Of course not, people just don't understand, true life, what God calls true life, is spiritual life. Which is only regained when you receive holy spirit. In Ephesians 1:11-14 it says ye are sealed with it!

So, yes it is that simple. God's not into making eternal life, hard, it's by believing.

There is more salvation (wholeness) available, beyond the new birth, that's where the renewed mind of romans kicks in, building the mind of Christ, getting rid of all the crap that's been built up in there not qaccording to the word, then becoming more sound, whole mentally and physically

You are loved of God

You realize that this passage in Romans was written to people who were already Christian, right. It was not intended to be an evangeliztic tool, but rather a piece of edification for they who had ALREADY made a decision for Christ.

Rebirth = Baptism

 

[mysterychristian]

You realize that this passage in Romans was written to people who were already Christian, right. It was not intended to be an evangeliztic tool, but rather a piece of edification for they who had ALREADY made a decision for Christ.

Rebirth = Baptism

Hello, And God bless,

If you read the context you will see that Paul is pouring out his heart about Israel, and that he would love for them to subject themselves unto the righteousness of God, instead of going about to establish their own righeousness.

Righteousness according to Romans 10:10 comes after you Believe, it's not by works, lest any man should boast, it's by Jesus Christ works and accepting and believing His works, and litteraly doing Romans 10:9,10 from the heart.

Any way Paul goes on as you'll read and then explains what is needed to be saved, and have righteousness.

Read it carefully and slowly, also did you not even read what I wrote about Adam and his losing spiritual life?

If a man has not done what's required of Romans 10:9,10 they do not have spirit, and are not saved (have eternal life.)

What about Ephesians being sealed with the holy spirit of Promise? Did you not read that? SEALED, Study the word sealed. That happens after the new birth. You don't get unborn again!?

Why must people always try and make eternal life so hard? It has to be because no one believes that God is truly loving and wants people to have eternal life, easily.

If eternal life comes by someones works, actions, what they do, then no one will ever get it! It's by Jesus Christ's past Actions, accomplishments.

Read Galatians slowly.

It's by Grace, and believing, EVERY ONE can BELIEVE, that's the stipulation, BELIEVING with a litteral carrying out and obedience to Romans 10:9,10, any one can do that, that's the fairness, justness of God, any other way would be a respector of persons, this is arespector of conditions met, the way you believe is that no one really knows if they will make it or not, how ridiculous, God is not that unloving, that is a Doctrine that someone has taught somewhere along the line, wrongly dividing not knowing the How the Word fits together, and it causes fear and the ability for another to manipulate, for fear of eternal death!

That's not God's Loving heart for mankind!


10:1Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
[SIZE=-4]2[/SIZE]For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
[SIZE=-4]3[/SIZE]For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
[SIZE=-4]4[/SIZE]For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
[SIZE=-4]5[/SIZE]For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
[SIZE=-4]6[/SIZE]But the righteousness which is of faith (Beleiving)speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above
[SIZE=-4]7[/SIZE]Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
[SIZE=-4]8[/SIZE]But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
[SIZE=-4]9[/SIZE]That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt (SHALT IS IN THE ABSOLUTE, ABSOLUTELY) be saved.
[SIZE=-4]10[/SIZE]For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. [SIZE=-4]11[/SIZE]For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
[SIZE=-4]12[/SIZE]For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
[SIZE=-4]13[/SIZE]For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
[SIZE=-4]14[/SIZE]How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
[SIZE=-4]15[/SIZE]And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
[SIZE=-4]16[/SIZE]But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
[SIZE=-4]17[/SIZE]So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
[SIZE=-4]18[/SIZE]But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
[SIZE=-4]19[/SIZE]But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.
[SIZE=-4]20[/SIZE]But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.
[SIZE=-4]21[/SIZE]But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

Israel always disobeyed and argued with God, many Got save but most did not, and the gentiles easily believed, but they gentiles those who are not israel, still fight the word also just like Israel because it's to easy to just accept that it's that simple, to have eternal life they want to DO something, establish thier own righteousness, just like Israel did, and the worse part about it people teach that you have to which is contrary to the whole ne testament, I'm not taling about the Gospels I'm talking about the Church Epistles specifically written to the Christians for their instruction and Learning.

You are Loved .

 

[savedandhappy1]

How should I have interpreted that. I spoke the truth in all my posts. If you find it disrespectful than take it up with God. I am not arrogant, I am merely a messenger of God to the Christian church, and part of my calling is to fix twisted and crroked ideas and hatreds that are within the body. ShiryehKadehs Elayacalon.

And how should I have interpretated the post below?​

]See what you to are calling sin is the act. What I said in my origional post is that being a homosexual is NOT the sin, doing homosexual act is. Have you not read any of what I have posted this whole thread? No where in scripture is simply being a homosexual labeled as sin. A homosexual is one who has an attraction to a member of the same sex. END OF STORY. now back yourself up with scripture, or be silent.

If looking at a woman and lusting after her is a sin, then isn't the case the same for men looking at men or woman looking at woman? END OF STORY, as you would say, and now back yourself up with scriptures, or be silent.​

The bolded area is what I am referring to as just part of your post that could and should be handled differently.​

Why should I take it up with God, you don't really want me to believe that you were just sitting in front of the computer, and He used your hands to type that post do you?​

Anyhow, nothing new here to discuss or study.

P.S. You didn't answer a question in your post, so I will repost it.

I am wrong that the Lord is the only answer you need?
​